you r the rock and on this rock i will build my church

Ecclesia = assembly of called out ones. Kyriakos = Church (not written in NT). Eph. 2 is about a NEW TEMPLE SYSTEM in which "born again remnants" were to be the "little stones". Have temple will travel. This got turned around to become a REPLACEMENT as a LITERAL ISRAEL ASSEMBLY REPLACEMENT complete with Vicar on earth called the Pope.

OIKODOMEO= House builder, rebuilder...often used as build up, edify. DOES NOT SAY WILL BUILD (thats added to the text, based upon a doctrine). Yeshua was building upon remnant faith of born again people like David (ACTS 2), and Abraham (john 8:56)....they saw the kingdom promise from afar....born agains.

What does that have to do with the discussion? Thats like saying to a Halactic Jew prove that law as divine is your version of Torah? What difference does it make? Who cares if some consider NT commmentary, or literaly word of G-d? If I say there were intermediaries who did sacrifice (as a priest) before the priesthood, whats the argument? Prove that the Tanach is the Word of G-d?

What do you mean by: "Past and present research methods of "German High Biblical criticism" have revealed that the theological foundations of the church are extremely shakey at best. (These are the same methods which informed and influenced the growth and spread of Reform Judaism)" Which "methods" and "researches"are you talking about? What is ""German High Biblical criticism" ? What is this inference in your speech about jewish reform? What are you talking about? Quote the sources about your statements,specialy the one that refers on"reform judaism".

Jesus was a man who did not get his power from being G-d rather he was struck by lightning (in shape of a dove) and started to do wonders. Oddly he also said he saw Satan fall to earth as a lightning bolt. What is Satan doing here? We know what revelation says about the one who is struck mortally and worshipped for his resurection. We also know that this being recieves his power from another to do miracles in his prescence. Jesus came for the fallen Jews, he said he wished the axe was put to the root of Israel and stated he came to bring war not peace. (his words not mine) Go figure he would say get yee behind me Satan when refering to the foundation of the church. One need only open their eyes and read the pashoot in context of Torah and Jesus' words to see he is Deut 13 and the punisher that goes by the name Hasus (the horse). Everthing I see about Jesus is a fullfilment of Torah. All mens sins are being paid for by war and blood that happens here and now. Judgedment was sent upon Israel and remain till this day. Disporah and working for the gods of others. Gods the fathers did not knoow. Collection of fallen Jews only. Burning up the chaf-as he put it. Declaring he is bringing war to the people of Israel. What don't you understand about Jesus? Fullfillemnt not of messiah prophecies, as he doesn't fit a single one in context. Fullfilment of the curses and Devareem 13 he does seem to fullfill. The military industial complex is rolling over the peoples will. Prophecy? Return to Torah Moses and the prophets as well as Jesus said. Everyone Jewish or Christian return to the pashoot (simple in context reading of Torah). Regain Israels protection under Hashem. One G-d one love

A NEW (kainos) MAN Man = Israel (Judges 20:1, Neh. 8:1) New Man in Ephesians 2....Israel never before seen (based upon the spirit). This became a CHURCH, later Luther spiritualized this to mean UNIVERSAL SPIRITUAL CHURCH (which evangelicals and other protestants believe). There were many assemblies (Rome, Corinth, Ephesus etc.) where followers gathered, and had a methophorical body each having purpose and gifiting. Assembly is the english for ecclesia, not kyiakos (church).

We legitimately critisize the church when it does wrong; Let's applaud it when it does something good.

When the Orthodox accept on a beit din an anti-Judaic Eisaus who wrote: "The only time i visited a synaguoge since i made Alyah , was last year. Not to pray, but to see by myself how some had desecrated this synaguoge . This was in 2006 . Before this, i can't remember" Then your opinion about what is Jewish and an Orthodox Jew will be worth more than the Christians. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

It's nothing at all like asking me to prove Torah. Even Xns and Muslims profess to base their beliefs in Torah as true. All three accept that Torah is true. So unless you can demonstrate the validity of the NT from Torah -- and that is impossible -- books from displacement theologies are invalid -- false. Therefore, until you validate the NT from Torah, arguments based on the NT are false. Torah-keeping Jews accept that Torah is true. By contrast, however, **no** Torah-keeping (i.e. Orthodox) Jew accepts the Xn NT. You wrote: "If I say there were intermediaries..." The argument is *you saying* in contradiction to *Torah teaching*; a matter of authority, presumptuousness and arrogance. You have no basis for contradicting the Torah teaching as understood by Jews (who read it in the original language, probably unlike you) for millennia. If you presume to change that then the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate such intermediary; *not* assume it based on your own authority. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

I BELIEVE CHAZAL CHANGED THINGS FOR SPECIFIC PURPOSE. What does that have to do with what we are discussing? incorrect on Torah and intermediaries. Rambam explains this in Moses being the only prophet annointed before the nation....likewise all others were based upon validity established by this. In fact various rabbis do not believe in a messianic temple, because messiah is it.

Jesus is the ROCK and NOT Peter. The Antichrist is claiming to be god on earth. He tampered with GOD's Ten Commandments and is blasphemous. Read Daniel and Revelation.

Numbers 21:7 "And the people came to Moses and they said, 'We have sinned for we have spoken against Hashem and you. Pray to Hashem and let Him remove from us the serpants.' And Moses prayed on behalf of the people." Followers of Yeshua don't consider him dead.

Sorry , i do not conserve writings , certainly not those from a fake bipede calling himself an Israeli orthodox Jew . What an insult to the Orthodox comunity this guy sprays .

I made this visit because i'm 100 % Jewish , haven't to write this on every tb . Yes , i'm secular , and this has hurt me more than you , because i know what antisemitism means . I'm not a disguised missionary Jew for Jesus as you are . I trust people , exept some fakes , who need to conserve all the writings , proof they are not "kosher" by themselve .

I have'nt to be accepted by an orthodox Beth din , i'm 100 % Jewish , not a fake Jew .

In the past couple of weeks, one member of our beit k'nesset suffered an eye injury; another suffered a heart attack, died and was resuscitated. The families requested prayer of the beit k'nesset and the members of the beit k'nesset "prayed on behalf" of these families. By your reasoning, *all* Jews therefore *always* direct *all* of their prayers "through" our beit k'nesset as an intermediary or mediator. Your reasoning is silly. There are also other examples in Tanakh of others in Israel who were requested to pray on behalf of someone in Israel and did so. Nowhere is there any suggestion that all Israel directed all of their prayers through Mosheh as an intermediary or mediator, much less any of the other examples. To the contrary, this notion is contradicted in that there are many instances in Tanakh in which those in Israel prayed to ha-Sheim where there is not the slightest hint of any intermediary or mediator. Further, Torah explicitly declares the opposite. Israel has never had to direct their prayers through Mosheh. The idea that an anti-Torah Hellenist idol could function as an intermediary or mediator for Israel is nothing short of ludicrous. Christians like you don't know anything about the followers of Yeshua. Whether you consider him alive or not is of no consequence. Neither is the NT from which you derive those beliefs, which remains invalid and false until you demonstrate otherwise from Torah. PS There is no "u" in Paqid. It is a transliteration of a Hebrew title. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

knock the schlop off. Christians later came from the nations, so their idea of an intermediary is different in some respects. DOESN'T make it WRONG or that G-d castigates them for it. YOU MISLEAD FROM MY STATEMENTS, and have many problems with guilt. THE PEOPLE GAIN STRENGTH ON THE PROPHET. THATS THE PURPOSE. How can you be a teacher and not know this? As Yeremiah said; if the people loose sight of Jerusalem let MY RIGHT HAND LOOSE ITS STRENGTH. Followers originally believed in a NEW JERUSALEM by the PROPHET.

I am not Jews for Jesus or ever been afiliated with them. I am not here to convert anyone to my thinking. I would not come on here and do that. I believe they don't have the correct Gospel, it is a different Gospel (god appeasment penal substitution) The real Gospel was that man didn't have to physcially die to Know G-d in spirit, because Yeshua taught G-ds forgiveness since the beginning. I don't believe anyone should think like me. Since early childhood, Israel has always been a part of my life, and I am cursed, even after working 70 hrs a week, I am still thinking and studying about G-d and His Word, constantly. I read the Rabbis, and reject what I don't think is correct. May you be blessed.

Followers always focused on this NEW JERUSALEM, which was different from the one on earth. It was supposed to start (vision of peace) on man at a time, and work the world. But it ended up (because of false prophets, power greed and coruption) just being a flesh, killing, hatred entity.

Thank You very much for your Blessing . I'm very secular , so do not walk with G-d . You probably already have read other of my tbs , explaining why i can't believe . But i can say that i'm very tolerant towards tolerant people . As you said , you are not coming to try to convince anybody to your thinking , and this approach i can only accept . The most important is to be honest , not to hide your true thinking .

Sorry Keren, I will be the first to say that I am not an expert on this subject. Time, space and my own inclinations at the moment as well as this forum limit further in depth discussion of the matter. Suffice it to say that GHBC is a strict research disicipline originating in Germany that has uncovered much regarding authorships, origins, and the pieceing together of stories in the Torah and the Xtian new testament. If I am correct, GHBC has been involved in uncovering the 'J', 'E', 'P', and 'D' traditions of the Torah. I remember reading, some time ago, that when the Catholic Church became aware of this German research discipline the church dispatched some of their jesuit theologians to Germany in order to learn the discipline so that the church could use it to strengthen it's theology. The way the story goes, is that after the theologians returned having learned the research methods, they also gave up their membership in the church convinced of the various unauthenticities and fraud perpetuated down through the ages. Supposedly as info has been uncovered, the church has been forced into a damage control mode, the like of which closer ties with Judaism is an example. It seems that as more damageing info is uncovered, the church will be looking for cover.

"Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man..." "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all everywhere should repent..." "...because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead." Acts 17:29-31 (NAS) Paqid, instead of following Parkes, I chose long time ago to follow God and His begotten One. That's His promise to enter the Realm with my brothers, Jews or non-Jews, believers or non-believers. I have always chosen not to hide myself and so doing I cannot deceive anybody. My faith as a Christian is my treasure. Who would rob me of it ? While many scholars try to fabricate a Jesus who would better meet their criteria, and affirm then He cannot exist, He never existed, I only need to open my heart and simply speak with the good Shepherd, He knows my voice and I feel His love. He knows the voice of all who want to meet Him on the way through him to the Father, our Abba.

all jews beleve that the man from nazareth was the maseya because GOD has promis abraham and GOD canot forgrt his promises

And what does all of it have to do with "jewish reform". What is about the inference you did about that?

Don't know about "jewish reform", but GHBC has had an influence on Reform Judaism. That is evidently clear regarding Reform Judaism's acceptance that there was "some human involvement" in the creation of Torah. The more your leanings toward orthodoxy, the stronger the likelyhood that you are unaware of GHBC. Orthodoxy has tended tended to not openly discuss findings and/or ignore findings in favor of their more literalist or fundamentalist approach. Probably to disruptive. Otherwise, it would be much closer to Conservative or Reform Judaism. If you are curious about GHBC , I recommend you look into either Conservative or Reform Judaism, if you can bring yourself to do it, considering your background, and level of curiosity. GHBC has effected Jewry outside of orthodoxy in general. It amounts to cutting edge research and discovery in these matters. It follows scientific methods. Shalom.