I know I keep saying this, and I truly don mean offense, but until Christians come to grips that Yeshua is not a replacement for an animal in Tanach, so that you can get to heaven, they are not really going to understand saving knowledge of Yeshua. The earnings of sin is SPIRITUAL estrangement (death) from G-d. G-d ALLOWED man to physically die out of MERCY and His Grace. Sin developes guilt which results in condemnation which causes us to loose focus on Him. That was Yeshua message; G-d gave him authority to tell the FLESH WORLD IN CREATED TIME, ITS HERE AND NOW, NOT WHEN WE PHYSCIALLY DIE. I hold that all men have divine created spirits which do not sin (not special Jewish or Gentile spirits), which are part of our living souls. However we have to "kill off" the animal soul (through death), to be in PERFECTION WITH G-D.

We can't always pick our brothers and sisters. As the ages might possibly be colliding, the family gets forced to be united again. It takes alot of patience and love.

Dear Christian Friends, Please note. Our religion, Judaism, is not the same as your religion. We shall never give up our belief in the Unity of God, which is totally different from your belief in the Trinity. This fundamental core belief is shared by all Jews and Israelites, whether they be reform, conservative, orthodox, ultra-orthodox, karaite, or samaritan. Our fundamental core belief in the Unity of God means that God has never been nor will never be incarnated in human flesh ie. Jesus. So, please understand we will never change. So, whatever you do to try to change our mind and accept your beliefs, we shall never change. We do not believe now nor shall we ever believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ nor of anyone else, now or ever. We are not afraid of any hell for non-Christians or last days or the rapture, since we do not believe in it. We hope you understand, that no matter how much support you give to Israel, we shall never ever ever abandon our belief in the Unity of God. The fundamental core belief of our religion, what is according to our religion an objective truth is that there is an Unknowable Omniscient All-knowing All powerful Allmerciful Creator and Sustainer of the Universe, who is One and Indivisible, whose Unity is Unlike any other Unity. We believe that God has never and will never become incarnate in human flesh, since to do so is not in God's nature. As it is said in the Torah "My ways are not thy ways, saith the Eternal". So whether or not you try to persuade us to accept the divinity or quasi-divinity of Jesus Christ, we are telling you in advance, that we shall never ever believe in it. This in order that you not waste your time. Even if you do try to persuade us of your belief, we shall never change. Now, having said all that, we hope that on that basis, we can be friends.

Those are doctrines or teachings of men, not what is required to follow teachings of a Rabbi. That was not or is not the Gospel. Those were other doctrines created by the Church for people who originally believed in pagan gods, and needed an understanding from what they knew about, to enter into a relationship with the G-d of Abram Issac and Jacob. May you be blessed in your walk with G-d.

No I am not Jews for Jesus nor have I ever been afiliated with them (which I have stated before), especially since I hold to a more Jerusalem based view of spirits (less hellenisitic than even most Rabbinical Jews). Usually the way it has worked, is the group with the biggest guns swords, armies determines for others who or what a or THE diety is. Which is why early on (not any more)Christians could call Jews G-d killers (along with other concepts of god appeasement in sacrifice), because they determined who or what G-d was, and they thought the Jews killed their new god. These groups also determined who and by what doctrine or understanding would get to heaven, or defined hell for those not entering.

Us smart folk got brains. When ya'll luk at whatcha get- it looks like good entertaynin ideas. kinda like the TNA fights. No?! Get real. Swimming with the snakes will get you bit. I would give Hagee a wide bearth as he is no diffrent than other evangalists. They bilk money from old people mis use not only Torah quotes (who doesn't even the rabbis do this) but they also misquote Christian text and always have an angle. Jesus' message was easy to understand. A) Test the Jews. B) Those that pass send them back to Torah. C) Those that fail are fallen Jews; collect the fallen Jews to follow who will follow the prophecies and take a new god. (Deut 13). He said he was here to bring war and burn up chaffe. What other prophets referered to fallen Jews as chaf? Did you know that the letters of veangalist rearranged spells "evil's agent". Odd huh? Daaaaannnnnng! The test of torah and Deut 13 is still going on today. Fallen Jews are at risk. Take it from an ex-born again. What is said about the Jews in devote groups is not sugar and spice. Enough glad handing with the fallen. Hagee? My my my!

to the precise date. You are welcome, they said ...But hate has always been the VEIL. Daniel 9:24 "seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy. Daniel 9:25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. Daniel 9:26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be CUT OFF and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. Daniel 9:27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." A good one for haters of Jesus !

Dave....I know on speaking of divinity, you were refereing to Deity. Why don't one of you explain to Christians the Jewish understanding of divinity of the prophet or divine grace (such as in Moses), in other words if there is not such a man to give the divine message G-d doesn't sent it. The Shechinah never came down, and man never went up because the divine presence will not come down to the dust of the ground.....it is IN THE SPIRIT. Remove the animal soul, kill it off, and it will come down to those who hold truth. A real Jew explains to those who will listen.

The so-called "replacement theology" has not been instigated and furthered by Paul, on the contrary. "In Romans 9, Paul states that this three-chapter section is exclusively about the Jewish people. He continues that theme in the 10th chapter, and in Chapter 11 writes in the first verse that "God has not cast away Israel." This statement by St. Paul is the absolute death knell of "replacement theology." Something that is cast away disappears forever. Israel is alive. Israel is thriving. Israel is growing. Israel and the Jewish people have not been cast away by God! Paul makes the statement that "God has not cast away Israel" twice. Romans is a post-Calvary document in which St. Paul states, in 11:5, "even so at this present time there is a remnant [a surviving group of Jewish people] according to the election of grace." That means very simply that there are Jewish people right now who have favor with God by the election of grace. What is going to happen when Jesus comes back? Every Christian believes that Jesus Christ is the messiah. The Jewish people do not believe that. In that regard we have to agree to disagree. I say to my rabbi friends: "You don't believe it; I do believe it. When we're standing in Jerusalem, and the messiah is coming down the street, one of us is going to have a very major theological adjustment to make. But until that time, let's walk together in support of Israel and in defense of the Jewish people, because Israel needs our help." Replacement theology teaches that the Church has replaced Israel. In replacement theology, you [the Jews] have no future in the economy of God. Replacement theology FALSELY teaches that the Church has taken the place of the Jewish people. The Jewish people are no longer in the economy of God, according to this teaching, which places the Church as God's centerpiece. There are fewer and fewer [evangelical leaders who subscribe to replacement theology] as time goes along. They are seeing, finally, the error of replacement theology. The vast majority of evangelicals do not believe in replacement theology. Evangelicals believe that Israel has a Bible mandate to the land, a divine covenant for the land of Israel, forever. That the Jewish people are chosen of God and are the apple of God's eye. That Christians have a Bible mandate to be supportive of Israel and the Jewish people, to demonstrate to the Jewish people what they have not experienced from Christianity for 2,000 years... the love of God. " (Pastor John Hagee)

The first two are really based upon the institututed Church (evangelicals are mostly seperationists; dispensationalists etc.). These claim that there has always been a distinction between the "church" (which has always been throught out created time)and Israel. Many Jews really like this because they don't have to deal with a bigger Israel outside of what they have been taught and trained in, and they can concentrate on trying to make Jews according to their own type systems (depnding on variety). So as long as followers keep themselves "seperated" or "replaced", they know they are not linked in anyway. Remnant theology is different. Generally it sees Israel on a much larger scale (the world), remnant Israel is a SPIRITUAL BODY, National Israel is a FLESH BODY. National Israel was / is not nor never been a total spiritual body of people, but a nation of saved (way of life) and unsaved, just like other nations; as evidenced on these talkbacks. Former Gentile followers who were originally holding to teachings of Yeshua and Apostles (whatever that means now?) were grafted into remnant Israel (no special Jewish / Gentile spirits..all man spirits created by G-d), but have not replaced national Israel, nor do they see themselves seperated (only in doctrines of peoples).

I liked very much : but untill that time lets stay together in support of Israel ... I'm not discussing theology , that's not my domain , but i accept sincere support , certainly sincere one . Thank you

I will always be ardently supportive of Israel and Israelis whatever it costs. I know some would think : well, easy to say, he lives in France, but I had made a dream to live in Israel. One of my friends - he is now deceased -, an American Jew, told me he had been one of the first to liberate a death camp, and sadly, but revolted, added : "I lost my faith on that day". I understand that, myself I am not so sure sometimes. He was so gentle and strong at the same time, I loved them - he was married - deeply in my heart. I miss them, I miss all innocent victims of the barbarian insanity of some. Please my Lord (Hashem) be there when Israel needs you. And if you cannot be there when Israel needs you, I, we, all will come to help her. Charles, my dear friend, never again, never again. Please believe me. A bientôt, mon cher Ami, si vous luttez, je lutterai à vos côtés, si vous chantez, j'espère être encore là pour chanter avec Israël et ses enfants chéris. (Hear of you soon, my dear friend, if you fight, I will fight on your side, if you sing, I hope I am still alive to sing with Israel and her beloved children).

Thanks again . Lets hope we'll only have to sing together .

With all due respect, only G-d can read a person's heart of judge their motives. I read your post sadly. Although some do proselitize Jews, I admit, many Christians love Judiasm and Israel with no ajenda attached. I am one. As a Christian, I not only pray for Israel, God's Chosen, but would die for Israel if necessary. Yes, I am Christian, but know where my faith stemmed from, the writings of the Profets and the contribution Jews made to the world spiritually. There is no explaining unconditional love, especially when a Christian has such a feeling for Israel. It's in my heart and pure-not expecting anything in return. May God bless you as the Jew you are and will always be. Israel is his first love. There are no conditions attached to that. All I ask is that you do not include me, or thousands of Christians who have wholesom and pure feelings regarding you. It was put in my heart by God, there is nothing I can do about it, I love Israel. I wish everyone felt like this-no strings attached. You are the apple of God's eye, he has an everlasting covenant with you, it will never change. Why would I not care so much~through your Scriptures I came to worship the same One God you do. Lynn

I have watched and listened to John Hagee for nearly a decade. Unless you can find the source of that quote, I will never believe what you posted. Please show us the exact quote, I know you won't be able to locate one. There are too many enemies of Israel in the world, please do not believe a true friend of Israel is one of them. Lynn

Interesting scenario, I like your extreme comparisions - it does make one think. My initial reaction would be that if the gentleman were not a Fanitical Muslim, I would listen and respect his beliefs. Unless the fellow became a pain and kept bringing the subject up, I'd remain his friend. Obviously, at 60 years old, I can size up friendship vs manipulation. However, there might be enough we have in common to enjoy his company. The same for the Hindu. I am grounded in my faith enough to be at ease when in the presence of someone of another affiliation under most circumstances. Should the Christian Church burn down and the Muslim and Hindi offer to help build it, I'd believe they were living their faith. Being a Christian, it is not my style to proselitize Jews. I love, with all my heart Israel and those who are Jewish. We share most of the same values and the term "Judeo-Christian" (ethics, values) shows the kindrenship. I've never heard Muslim/Christian ethics, Muslim/Judeo values, have you! I truly understand the image you may have of 'Christian'. Do you realize though, that most professing that identity were not Christian? How so? They did EVERYTHING Jesus condemned concerning the treatment of Jews and Israelites. To lighten up this discussion a bit, a good judgement would be "if it doesn't talk like Christ, or act like Christ, or love like Christ - or love His people as we are told to do --- they're not Christian. Hey, I'm part of the huge hunk of Christianity who backs Israel even when they don't want me to do that. It's called love. It's not manipulative. It has no expectations. I'm Christian, and you are my roots. From your scriptures came everything good and precious in my life. Since I look at your faith with respect and admiration, to say the least. There is no spiritual Holocaust planned. I do, however, see nations around you who would love to have a literal Holocaust (sooner than later). Should that become a reality, I will not stand by and do nothing. Thousands, if not millions of true Christians will rise to the call. As I said in another post, I'd die for what we share - that's how strongly I feel our beliefs are related.

I'm a Christian, have been for years. One of my prior posts tells a little about my views - take a look? I've always had a problem with understanding "Trinity". I personally do not use the word. In 40 years I finally heard something I could grasp. God, according to Scripture, did show himself in many ways. Hebrew scriptures back that up: Moses and many prophets in the Bible experienced a vision of the living God on his Throne. After Moses constructed the tabernacle: "And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne." I believe he also saw God's back? . . . Ezekiel: "The Almighty God brought Ezekiel near his Throne. Ezekiel fell on his face because of the awesome holiness of the Lord. " God also revealed himself in another way with Moses: "17 And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel. 18And Moses went into the midst of the cloud" . Could He then not reveal himself through His Presence in Jesus??? Any chance??? Can we agree that Hebrew Scripture was written by the Profets when they were under the Spirit of God? Depending on a different Jewish Scholars, some would say yes. Then we have Father God, the Almighty who is in heaven. Literally. OMHO, I there see God manafesting himself in three different ways. With that I am satisfied and take it no further.