the further I get alienated from Judaism!! How DARE this rabbi tell this woman that! He is no different than some of those crazy extremist imams!!

Israeli Taleban in action......

I've worked with many Gerim and bring those who work with me to Batey Din that I know will not be questioned. This ruling, however harsh it appears to us reading this report (we don't know the full story) shows that there is really a caveat emptor on the part of the candidate for Geruth.

Can one judge retroactively invalidate ALL conversions done by Druckman's court? Rabbi Druckman is still running the mainstream conversion courts -- under trhe auspices of the Chief Rabbinate. Is the Chief Rabbinate also invalidated?

So let's apply your second point to you and recognize that "rejected observance" is a very slippery slope and a relative conclusion. Assume for a moment that 10 years from now the traditions you hold by are no longer in vogue and you are considered out of the mainstream of orthodox Judaism. That's not too far fetched if you look at where orthodoxy was 10 to 20 years ago. Because of that, despite your holding of the mitzvot as you know them, neither you nor your children etc. are deemed Jewish. A beit din has declared you "not observant enough"...enough. Just think about it, you are chasing "enough" according to who knows who. You are now, because of a trend, a pariah in your faith. You cannot have an aliyah at your shul. Be counted in a minyan. Your community doesn't include you in anything. Your children are rejected. This list goes on and on. I don't think you really know what that might feel like. I don't think you have any concept of what it means to have the core of your being threatened by the very community to particpate in. It's dying and to you its just a matter of rules. The mere fact that you think its appropriate to ask your second question provides an affirmative answer to your third. Yes, the rabincal courts today are lacking in compassion and morality on this and many other issues of today. It requires no great knowledge or intelligence to rule the way the courrts are acting today...striving for the most stringent and narrow intrepretations of our faith. Great rabbis find compassion. This will be the ultimate downfall of our faith.

"these 'so called' judge /rabbis should be severely reprimanded. " says Scooby of Ramat Gan! (no. 28). What rabbis will do the reprimending, Scooby? It is the inmates that are running the asylum!

says chaya of Bat Yam No. 31 May I add, I never heard of the imams debasing their faith that deep below the gutter!

"which of these two souls stood shoulder to shoulder with amcha" Simple. The ones who follow the Torah as we have for 3300 years. I know... not the answer you were hoping for.

Israel is a democratic country ever since 1948, where freedom of religion exists. So why should there be some lunatic rabbi who dictates who is worthy to get married and who is not?, and why must the top members of the Rabbinical courts belong to the Orthodox branch, whereas there are more denominations such as Conservatives or Reform?. Israel must have more diversity in its religious hierarchy, and it needs a civil law marriage like any other country in the world which may boast itself as a modern, democratic state.

How about telling the the truth i mean the whole truth WHY the rabbi did what he did and not try to portray the rabbis as something stupid ? Allen, Ms Lubitch is telling you: "The judge in fact ruled that all conversions signed by the special conversion court were invalid, because the court was headed by "heretics" and "criminals." This ruling implies that the thousands of conversions conducted by such courts were unacceptable. " You opt to remain blindfolded? It's your choice, as to many of us, we could be begining to drift to heresy ! This self styled Rabbonus, is contrary to all things our Torah represents. It is begining to appear that the Torah of our cousins the Samaritans is more authentic and more divine than ours.

you guys too. well sorry. I didnt mean bad. ***

A good and decent human being of ANY(or no) faith is worth incalculably more to the human race than is a "Torah observant" Orthodox Jew whose sick and evil heart is full of hatred,bigotry, racism,misoginy and delusions of superiority.

You should study the story of erev rav, if you have not yet. It is facinating to see what happened at the time of the golden calf. You are right, it was around the time of Har Sinai. A Yemenite Rav was put in jail for saying that 70% of rabbi's are direct decendents of erev rav (if not reincarnations) We have a huge problem here as I have seen converts who did not keep strict halachot but soul was pure Jewish. I have seen converts who keep the rabbinical orthodox mitzvot who have the neshamah of goyim. But now they can do tricks of the rabbi's. A trained monkey in otherwords. Not to say they are monkey's, G-d forbid, but Jew and non-Jew are different, have different roles, all created by G-d. So, be happy with who they are and maybe that rabbi who said this woman is not kosher is only seeing a mirror of himself. So sad!

This Rav who did the conversion is a Zionist, considered an authority by the religious-Zionist public. Who was the 'rabbi' who said it was invalid? What flavor of ultra-anti-zionistic orthodoxy does this rabbi and beit din represent. I can assure you that if one does not follow the rabbi's that does not mean they don't have a Jewish soul. It just may be the opposite. The Mashiakh will sort this mess out, and hopefully soon.

"(we don't know the full story) shows that there is really a caveat emptor on the part of the candidate for Geruth. what are you saying rabbi? caveat emptor? are we talking chattels? or real estate? or humans? rabbi! was the torah not clear enough? veger lo toneh? who are these savages posing as rabbis? and i don't know u, but am assuming you are part of mankind, what is the meaning of your parevine reflection? what is the part of the story you did not get? rabbi druckman's reputable beit din converted many geirim. to declare it retroactively defficient? the word hitlerite behaviour comes to mind. if i were an honest rabbi and as such i had to accept the authority of these malevolent thugs, i would look for another faith.

The Rabbi believes that the 15 year old conversion is no longer effective. Just like any immunization being not effective after a period of time.... In reality, the criminal is that Rabbi. May be his credentials are out dated now ?

well it is not the first time i have heard of such apathtic ruling by the rabbincal jury in israel, luckily they are not the only jews in the world. i admire you and your husband for taking up this battle, but remember theese things happens mostly in israel.

Unfortunate though it be, Orthodoxy has enabled itself to become a sad state of affairs, but a JOKE everywhere else including Israel. This is what happens when religion and politics mix, a total abuse of religious power, a robbery of identity. Though in actuality no Rabbi can take away ones Jewish Identity which starts in the heart. The total idea is entirely a contrivance by those Jews that are wielding power over other Jews. It's all about control over individuals and society. This is why there exists Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist, "Classical Reform Jews", Humanistic, Secular Jews, Athiestic Jews, and other Jews that I have yet to learn about. Orthodoxy has become so insular and so narrowly defined that they have erected a wall of separation between themselves and every other Jew past the point of political absurdity. I would defend their desire to live as they wish, but not their dominion over other Jews in the state of Israel or anywhere else for that matter. This would never ever happen in the United States, a country that was crafted with such tremendous Jewish input by Jews of every variety at various times, that one could even posit that America has become the Jewish universe. In AMERICA, JEWS HAVE A "HOMELAND". IN ISRAEL, MOST JEWS ARE IN EXILE... These are tough words, yet they have the ring of TRUTH.

One of the basic requirements of Jewish conversion is that the convert accept mitzvos. Even if there is a declaration of intent to keep the mitzvos but it is proven to be insincere, the conversion is invalid. If a person does not live according to Torah law such as living in an area where Shabbat or Kashrut or family purity could not be kept, the acceptance of mitzvot is a farce and the conversion WAS NEVER valid. This is true even if this is discovered some time after the original conversion.

Address yourself to the issues without making things personal. No one is against you. You have a right to your opinion, and to voice it, and so do I.

It seems that Al Quida or Hizbullah were behind that.............

WHAT A LOAD OF NONSENCE!!! She should have told the Rabbi to piss off and get a life.

finally, they got it right!!

Your mean the seed of the Jewish Father is not Jewish that you rule their children not jewish ? Very Nasty and one sided. I think you rabbis are persecuting Jews and gentiles by you halakic teocracy. What exactly the question you posted to that lady and she could not answer ? You decided to inquire a little further about Rachel's conversion, and asked her about her mitzvot observance. your inquiry is mala fide to ENTRAP Racheal. You took active participation on the flrolic of further ENQUIRY to entrap , and apply a high standard but not a resonable standard of a jew.Naturally you standard of spirituality is To high that anyone will ever meet your standard. You should have applied a resonablemans test. Now that you declared the children of the jewish seed as not jewish too. You went back to the point to declared a marriage void but allowed a divorce on a void marriage as you claim to be in your findings. The whole halakic judgement is Mala Fide and Void. THIS IS VERY WONG !

Some tb says that when you hold on the Mitzwoth , even for a short time , it's OK , you remain Jewish . Other one says the contrary , if you don't observe them all the time it's invalid . So my question : who is right ? who can tell me exactly what the rules are . The Orthodox of course . Is this rav Druckmann , who performed this conversion , Orthodox ?

understand after reading an incomplete sneer article. god decides what is moral and just, not a lady from the justice for woman leauge. get over yourselves and learn that religion does not conform itself to your current emotional phase. If you were raised but 100 years ago you would not think these actions out of the ordinary. well if you learn that religion dose not "progress" nor "enlighten" with every century then you would begin to understand the power of g od. Wake up foolish liberal brainwashed civil rights dodos

I corroborate Reuven's message (8), which is well stated and applies no less to *many* of the TBers. When Orthodox rabbis contradict (or, as in other cases, slander) Orthodox rabbis, this is the perfect example of when mathematical logic reflects the Halakhah and at least one of the Orthodox rabbis reflects an invalid position. The Orthodox position reflecting the Face of ha-Sheim is the Halakhah advocated by the most logical rabbi. It's *not* a matter of "my rabbi is bigger than your rabbi" or "my rabbi is a greater Torah sage than your rabbi" (which is mere opinion and often ill-informed). Te authority rests with logic, not a rabbi -- or even a group of rabbis. There was provision even for the Beit Din ha-Gadol to rectify its mistakes. This case can only be sorted out by giving precedence to interpreting Torah according to mathematical logic -- which rules out all of those who recklessly and irresponsibly spout off at the keyboard while lacking the facts of the case. Certainly, hanging a Sword of Damocles over a Jew because he or she was once converted is a breach of Torah: For native-born and geir there is one Torah (be-Midbar 15.16,29-31), one khuqah (be-Midbar 9.14; 15.14-15), one mishpat (wa-Yiqra 24.22; be-Midbar 15.16). According to Torah, whatever grounds justify kareit for a Jew who converted justify kareit no less for the native-born Jew. The caveat emptor is twofold: anyone who misrepresents himself or herself to a beit din will suffer the consequences and [b] it is self-sabotaging to convert through a questionable beit din. Contrary to racist interpretations, Torah specifies that keeping Torah is ha-Sheim's standard for mankind, *all* mankind; *every* person -- Jew or gentile. The difference between Jew and gentile is that the Jews accepted that berit and the goyim rejected that berit. Regardless of post-persecution concessions, Torah specifies the fate of goyim. Ha-Sheim does not change. The critical factor is keeping Torah, *not* converting (although converting is desirable where feasible). The gentile can become counted with Israel *as a non-Jew* geir without converting, i.e. without becoming a Jew, by keeping Torah to their utmost (non-selectively). Clearly, it is better to live as a Biblical geir (non-Jew keeping Torah, a יראת ה / ha-Sheim Reverer) like the eirev rav who accompanied Israel out of Egypt (Shemot 12.38) and were absorbed by Israel. If one's eyes are on wanting to be a Jew rather than wanting to please ha-Sheim by keeping Torah (non-selectively) to his or her utmost, then his or her priorities are backward. Keeping Torah must be the goal while being a Jew, where possible, merely makes it easier to keep Torah. Being a gentile *doesn't* prevent you from pleasing ha-Sheim by doing your utmost to keep His Torah. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews

The lady has not decided , nor did god , only this rabbi [ ? ] If only god decides what is moral and just [ your writing ] why did this rabbi [ ? ] speak out ? You poor stupid idiot

The following: Clearly, it is better to live as a Biblical geir (non-Jew keeping Torah, a יראת ה / ha-Sheim Reverer) like the eirev rav who accompanied Israel out of Egypt (Shemot 12.38) and were absorbed by Israel. Should have read: Clearly, it is better to live as a Biblical geir (non-Jew keeping Torah, a יראת ה / ha-Sheim Reverer) like the eirev rav who accompanied Israel out of Egypt (Shemot 12.38) and were absorbed by Israel than to convert through misrepresentation or through a questionable beit din. Also, my comment concerning the caveat emptor was a general remark *not* meant to imply any beit din connected to the case in the article. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

While ha-Sheim and His Torah is unchanging, the world progresses in literacy, technology and knowledge. Mankind is a subset of the world. Man is a subset of mankind. Therefore, man's relationship to the Unchanging ha-Sheim & Torah inexorably changes... unless one rejects knowledge and remains stuck in the ignorance of past centuries. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il