This canadian do'nt accept Jews having qualities . If you say that Jews have contributed much more than other peoples , that's a fact , to mankind , you are a racist for him . If you say Israel has become a great country in Hi Tec , the same . He sees only the bad side of the Jews . Well this guy looks often at a mirror , and then yes , he sees the ugliest side of mankind , not of the Jewish people .

I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you as I am sure you are a better pisher then I. What I wanted to say is that American Jews in particular are grasping at straws in order to lend a semblance of Jewishness to their otherwise material filled lives. In effect they have become "nothing" as they simply dont believe in anything. In fact they have become more goyish in their non belief than the most pagan amongst you. As far a s me living...Here's one for you I live in the coolest City in North America namely Montreal, where you're either a hockey player or a hooker. By the way I heard you cant skate.

There are MANY beautiful aspects to the Jewish religion,As there are to all faiths.To clarify,Kyle, i DO NOT hate Orhodox Judaism.While I find much to disagree with in its beliefs and practices,of course all are fee to believe as they wish, What I DO hate-and withoit hesitation-is the ultra right wing political and relgious intolerance and hatred as promoted by the Ultra Orthodox in Israel.And for the LAST TIME Chrles the vast contributions of Jews to humanity are well known and a justifiable source of pride,But to claim that Jewshave "contributed much more'than any other peoples" is simply a statement of stupidity, Its historically wrong. And a sympton of your sick belief that Jews are superior to the rest of mankind,

If i'm criticised , it happens of course , i always think that those critics have the value of the person giving them . In this way there are only serious people left , whom critics can , and sometimes have to , be taken in account . So as i said already , let those ignorant stupids bark , it's not important . In Yiddish i would add : in ain oier aran , in's andere aroos . In great lines it says : you hear it , but instantly forget it .

I can't believe that anyone would objectively consider western culture's treatment of women in music preferable to Jewish tradition. Why is freedom that includes focusing ninety percent of the spotlight on a woman's sexual anatomy preferable to revering, treasuring, and respecting women? Stupid secular fanatics.

I prefer mail cantors, and do not like to go to services led by female cantors. However, I don't believe they should be discriminated against. People will decide who they prefer. If they prefer women cantors, then they can seek them out in Conservative and Reform synagouges. However, if they prefer male cantors, that's fine too if they fail to patronize female cantors. The Orthodox can do what they want. That is not the others business. Private institutions have the right to discriminate within their institutions if they do not receive state funds. That is what the right to associate is all about. However, with oportunity in Reform and Conservative venues, women will have to see if they are in demand, and they cannot blame others if they find they are not. There are areas where men are not in demand, and we live with it.

Well Al, I haven't heard that one before about American Jews, but that is certainly one way of looking at it. I don't live in New York any more, where I grew up, so it's hard for me to say. There we had the whole spectrum of Jews to observe for religiousity or none. I live in Alabama now. Here we have Southern Jews, which is a slightly different variety. They have been here for generations. But we also have New York and New Jersey Jews who are discovering this place, as well as the Florida Jews, who are really all former New Yorkers. They usually come to our Reform synagogue when they hit town, looking for Jewish community. I'll have to agree with you though, it seems Jews are going in alot of directions, though where I am here, it may be somewhat different. I guess it depends where you are. Here in the South, everyone's religion is alive. I can imagine Montreal being very cool, with all that classical French beauty , and beauties, small close intimate streets and walkways, little artsy businesses, French-Canadian cuisine, etc.. I did a little skateing in my time, But nothing like you guys. Compared to y'all, ...then I can't skate.

Careful now ! HAHA ! I feel that I have to warn you. Be careful what you say to Charles ! He will throw it right back at you. HAHA!

I guess you will have to pitty us, Eliyahu. ( Though I am not secular) There just seems to be something beautiful about beauty. Add that to a beautiful voice, (or the other way around) and you have a beautiful combination ! Simple as that ! Who really understands these things ? I certainly don't.

To deny that the Jewish contribution to Humanity was greater than that of other peoples is only a sign of ignorance , stupidity and not admitting facts . Also of course a hate of anything related to Jews or Israel . And this is not to wonder , a guy who wanted to annihilate " the as Polish peasants 17th century dressed" othodox Jews . Now he presents himself as a soft sheep , unther the wool it's only a feroscious wolf .

I agree with most of what you wrote; far and away the most intelligent response. I equate (mathematical or discrete) "logical Halakhah" to what you've referred to as "the actual halacha, meaning the mesora on an intellectual level." Where I may disagree with you is that my perception is that the culture superimposed on logical Halakhah today is a cultural interpretation of the Ultra-Orthodox -- which lags behind today's culture by at least a century and, in some instances, nearly a millennium! Thus, it is this cultural obsolescence that I see as out of touch today, which is exactly what has driven them away over 90% of today's flock from Torah into assimilation. Your explanation of the "glacial pace," though, is non-sequitur. Today's cultural interpretation lags centuries behind today's culture. What kind of connection is that? The logical Halakhah of David ha-Melekh is closer to today's culture than today's Ultra-Orthodox cultural interpretation component of Halakhah. That can only be because the cultural interpretation component has become disconnected from culture. In other words, the Ultra-Orthodox perception of culture has no connection to reality (today's culture). If, as you write, "the codified halacha shapes itself to the realities of the culture we live in," this problem wouldn't exist. That it does exist is a fatal flaw in urgent need of correction. I agree "Thats how it should be." But our present situation, with over 90% of the flock having been estranged by the rabbis, demonstrates that isn't how it is. Thus, it seems to me that we need to see to it that the cultural interpretation becomes reconnected to *current* culture; i.e. logical Halakhah, which is (by definition) up to date. This is what I've been trying to press. Unfortunately, too many are simplistically writing their own, assimilationist, "Torah" -- just another displacement theology. PS: an Israeli Jewish newspaper not publishing candlelighting times on Yom Shishi is a disgrace to Israel and Jewish readers. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

By his own admission, RCA is a Reform "convert," a gentile claiming to be a Jew, which explains his position. With one exception, I find it easier to refer to seculars, Reform, etc. all as non-Orthodox rather than try to differentiate between "secular," and the various insignificant distinctions. The only distinction I make is for "Traditional," which I use to mean the large proportion of Israelis who, while falling short of typical Orthodox practice, love ha-Sheim, love His Torah and recognize the general halakhic perspective (though they have a lot of questions about rabbinic excesses), light candles on Shabbat, fast on Yom Kipur, conduct a Seider on Pesakh and try to do what they understand as the basics. I think these should have the benefit of being considered on a journey of teshuvah. PS: the most popular Israeli Jewish newspaper not publishing candlelighting times on Yom Shishi is a disgrace to Israel and Jewish readers. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

This person you say : is a gentile , claiming to be Jewish ...Has at least no to try to convince himself , and most of all , all the others that he is Jewish . He is certainly a GOOD Jew , who converted sincerely , without any hidden program as you have . You don't like Reform converts ? If this is done only to get married with a Jew , i could eventually agree . But if it is done out of conviction , it's OK . And remember , minister Boim said it : Reform conversions performed abroad are recognised , and you little employee can't change the law .

what does RCA stand for? Reform Council of America? Religiously Crazy Americans? they seem to be intent on informing all of us how great the modern liberal adulteration of judaism is going. thanks RCA, you scare me.

I SAID the haredi in Israel must be VANQUISHED-ie defeated in the arena of ideas and politics.Charles is not only a fool He is a liar

this is happening already, at least in the Conservative/masorti world and you are right, a woman can't just sing music written for a male voice.

This what not what you meaned to say . You only try to soften your racist perception , and show others you are a sheep . I will not go so low as you by insulting you . That's easy to do , you have'nt to be smart to insult someone . Your hatred towards Jews and Israel is shown in every tb i have seen from you . You only see some not so nice sides of MY country [ poverty and so ], or of my people , not yours . You can not admit that Jews have contributed much more than any other to mankind . You say i'm wrong ? so tell me wich people of 15 million has received 158 Nobel prizes ? You can't give any . If for you saying this is racism ? OK , but not racism against the Jewish [ or any other ] people as you spray . It's , if it is racism , in favor of my people , not your .

Shlomo, RCA are my initials. I just think that someone like myself has a duty to clear up some of the wildest misconceptions out there regarding Reform Judaism. You will notice, that I don't try to force my beliefs. But, If someone doesn't try to present a balanced perspective, who will ? Over here, we are the majority. Over there, a minority. Shalom !

Uhhh ! Ooooh ! Jewish Canadian, Charles is not going to like that ! Maybe we should turn down the rhetorical accusations a bit. Everyone likes to express their point with a little added emphasis for impact. But, words, especially written words are power plants. Take it from me , they can offend so easy, even when not intended. The more people that we can converse with around the world on a cordial basis the better. Don't you think so ?

I heard that before, from better Christians. You made the ultimate mistake, Paqid, and the world saw it by your own hand. YOU DON'T PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH. That was enough for me to know who and what I was dealing with. You havn't learned a thing as you are still condescending and smug. So go peddle your cross to bear.

MY wife and I both converted at the same time. We studied with the same Rabbi. How is that for teamwork ? BIRDS OF A FEATHER, FLOCK TOGETHER !

You hold a very reasonable point of view, Stewart. Who would want to disagree with that ? Everyone has a preference, so really, live and let live. I think it's a formula for success. Works for you ! Works for me ! Shalom !

Many years ago i had a discussion with a liberal Rabbi from Paris . He told me that he prefered that his people came to the synagogue by car on Shabbat , than that they stay home , and loose the contacts to Judaism completely . This i could understand , very necessary . Your tb's were posted june 2nd , Shabbat . Is this necessary ? or is writing a tb also part of reading , educating or other allowed cultural activities ? Or are this personnal interpretations ? I know that even in the Orthodox all the rules are not followed the same way . Kashrut is an example of this , in Galut certainly .

I am pretty tight with kavana in my prayers, but with that babe at the podium, i couldnt guarantee anything

I did not mention, that over here, my synagogue holds services the evening before. Meaning, that if Shabbat is on Saturday, we go to services on Friday evening, just before dark. Candle lighting begins the service. Because there is no synagogue in my immediate town, we travel 40 miles by car, to the town where the synagogue is located. Many things are done a little differently than how it is done in Israel. In the US, Orthodoxy, is in general, the minority. Where I live, we never see them. They are maybe 100 miles away, where they have their own synagogue. Reform has it's own influence over its own communities here. One synagogue will draw Jews from several nearby towns in the area. That usually means within 50 miles from any direction. I will be moving to a much larger city within the year, where there are many synagogues very close by. Hope this gives you some perspective. Let me know when you have any questions.

Work is not actually defined. So rest is up to interpretation. One mans leisure is anothers work. So reading and writing are not prohibited absolutely on Shabbat. We also see Halacha as created by the Talmudic Rabbis which was human creation of law. The Torah, was ancient compared to The Talmud . It was Talmudic Law that told Jews how to interpret the Torah. I think that Orthodoxy may not be overjoyed with Jews knowing that it was they that created the Halacha, because the implications may be to controversal. But it is all out there to be known, because it is from the Talmud that we know everything from the time. This is one of the technical points that allows Reform to do what we do regarding tradition. The Rabbis (humans) have always been dictating the practices that Jews are to follow. Why should our Rabbis be any different when we see it as it really was. So we feel that we can update, and make more relevent those things from Jewish traditions for modern times. Of course Orthodoxy will be upset with this because from this they lose power and control. From our point of view , Orthodoxy had engaged in this from the begining yet petrified many practices commonly popular from 300yrs ago reflecting Russian and Polish sensibilities from those times. Now , I am not an expert on this , but that is my understanding of Reforms position. I am trying to learn and keep up with a Reform Judaism in the US which is getting closer and closer to Conservative or Masorti Judaism, which means dedeper understanding of, and keeping Halacha in terms of modern times. There is a "quiet revolution" going on. It is as if Masorti and Reform are in the early stages of some type of merger down the road. Already both groups are comfortable in each others synagogues and services. Most, except a very very small few, Reform synagogues, have distanced themselves from earlier founding principles for a number of reasons. Probably, one of the most significant departures from Orthodox tradition is the incorporation of scientific knowledge for modern Jewish sensibilities. People forget that Reform was created by Orthodox scholars that felt the need to modernize Judaism for first, German culture, and then American culture. For Jews in america, the American experience was not that of the Jews in Europe living in the schtetls. Jews in America began to assimilate immediately. It was the non-German Jews comming from Eastern Europe centuries later that feared assimilation as a reaction to their mistreatment in Europe. The German Jews were fully assimilated, modern and spread Reform Judaism early in the history of the US. By the way, Charles, did you know that there is a nine or ten hour difference between here and there ? Your day in Israel starts before ours here.

As a secular, light years away from Orthodoxy and feeling very much on the outside looking in, they add to my understanding. Thanks.

It is the East European Jews that are largely responsible for taking present day Reform Judaism in the direction of Conservative (or Masorti )and Orthodoxy. Reform Judaism in the US was originally the creation of German Orthodoxy. When the Russian and Polish and other East European Jews came to the US in the early 1900s, they overwhelmed the previously German synagogues. As I said earlier, the Germans were fully assimilated here, were successful, educated professionals, wealthy and wanted a modern Judaism up to date with modern science (you know Germans). The East European Jews were not this way at all, and were comfortable with the old ways of East Europe. They were poor, sickly, uneducated in modern ways, kept to themselves and didn't trust others and other cultures. They needed alot of help, to put it mildly. Very understandable, of course. Assimilated American Jews mostly of German descent , formed Organizations and Funds, when the East Europeans arrived, for the purposes of careing for, educating, and assimilating these new arrivals into the new American culture, because the fear among established Jewry was that these new arrivals would be an embarrassment, creating negative stereotypes and impressions about Jews in general. The already established Jews had made many inroads in American culture, and did not want to take a step backward on account of the seeming strange awkwardness of the new arrivals, that were pouring into America. For the most part, the actions taken by the German-American Jews for the sake of the East European Jewish immigrants, were a great success, as Jews in American society have managed to become very successful, highly educated, and have moved up the ladder quickly. No other group in America has moved from poverty to success faster than Jews.

I think that the title of this article is a little bit misleading. The rabbinical legislation regarding women's voices has nothing to do with thiere decency. It also does not have anything to do with muzzling women from expressing themselves. It is has more to do with putting ear plugs in men who cannot control thiere gonads even when Mary Poppins is singing them a lulaby. I know that it must be hard for women to truly comprehend this issue. That is because you are not of the Male species. It's true, the sages were nothing but a group of MEN. That is why they knew EXACTLY what they were doing when they made modesty legislations.