i did'nt appreciate your last sentences regarding the differences in hour . We are at gmt + 2 , you at -5 to -8 . I wrote that your tb was posted on June 2nd . Had you written this before Shabbat in the USA , he had probably be posted on the 1st . But asking me if i know that there is a time difference was not necessary , i'm always taking it on account , and i'm not a stupid one . Regarding Shabbat , Reading was and is always allowed , even in the ultra orthodox . Writing not . Playing chess is also permitted . I think that even if some actions are permitted , if not urgent , is it not better to avoid them ? Now i know a little bit more on the Reform , much is permitted , in name of modernity , and assimilation into the surrounding modern world . Regarding the evolution of the Orthodoxy to reform , i know it . Moshe Mendelsohn was one of the promotors of Haskalah , his grandchilden , Felix Mendelsohn and Fanny Hensel were not Jewish anymore .

You wrote :....my synagogue holds servives on Friday evening , Meaning , that if Shabbat is on Saturday .....Have you seen Shabbat on another day ? Orthodox Jews generally prefer to live in places where there are others , where they can have their Bate Knesseth . Where i lived there are all the sorts of Chassidim , they have their Bate Knesset in the vicinity , one near the other . They were concentrated in a radius of less than 500 meter . I had Belzer and other Chassidim as neighbors , but in my town i had no knowledge of a Reform synagogue . There , more than 90 or 95 % of the Jewish children , the seculars too , received a full time Jewish education . My children went of course to such a school . During 15 years , from kindergarten till end of high school , before entering University . They received the State program , who includes 2 hours religion or free thinking , and 8 hours Jewish and Hebrew . This education also gives a very low intermarriage rate , and , for those attending the non very orthodox school , as my children did , a very good knowledge of Hebrew .

You can explain me things about the reforms , other explanations or teachings , unnecessary , i know . You description of Jewish immigrants , not so nice in the words you use . Sicky ? they were checked on their health upon arrival at Ellis Island .

Its a (re)treat. Hubby down there with our sons and me with my daughter, nothing to beat it. We pray the age old davenning and follow the leining and have absolutely no desire to stand up and do (or hear )a (wannabe) Streisand (I do that at home all the time). I'm invited by my friends to join a womens minyan every Simchat Torah. Went once and left after five long minutes, hurrying back to where I really belong, my seat, upstairs, in Shul. Dancing with a Torah? Unattractive idea to me. But those who love it? Bevakashah, enjoy ,as you so desperately need it to feel fulfilled, apparently.

Many were not very healthy but, nothing contageous might have been better words. If it were very bad they would not have got into the country. When I read the story, I was also surprised how blunt the descriptions were. The book that this history comes from was written in 1957, about events around the 1900s. In the begining, from what I understand, conditions were very bad on the lower East side of New York in those days. Much poverty. Those days are long gone, but sometimes books like this can give insight into the attitudes that people held at the time. The book is called, THE STORY OF JUDAISM, by Bernard Bamberger, 3rd edition. It was one of the books my Rabbi used with students. By the way, my Rabbis family was from Eastern Europe (Czech and Russian). Anyway, I think you know what I mean and where I am comming from about all of this.

Thank you very much, Debbie. A good day to you !

I didn't mean anything by that. That is, the differences in the hour. In fact, I may be stupid. I don't know what gmt+2, and me at -5 to -8 means. I did not know that writing was not permitted. It's becoming apparent that I do not know much about Israel at all. Maybe I have been too puffed up. I remember reading about Mendelsohn and his family. that must have been a big disappointment, he being a leader, and family not following.

The way our synagogue views it is , if Shabbat is saturday, it begins at sundown on Friday. By attending at night , it is the begining of the Shabbat day for worship. Where I live we don't have the same concentration of Jews living together. They are very spread out. In New York and New Jersey where I am from, we have big Jewish communities living together. Here in the South, Jews congregate in the biggest cities. There are big Jewish communities in Georgia. In the state of Florida, Jews are all over. In Alabama, they are in the big cities and in the smaller big cities. In the big cities you have the full spectrum of Jews. I live in a small town. The Israeli school system sounds very thorough in Jewish education. Here it is more a private matter with Jewish day schools and after school shules which teach Hebrew for 4 or 5 years, several hours a day. The Hebrew schools are usually attached to the synagogues of the individual movements. For those who want more , there are Jewish high schools and colleges, summer camps and retreats etc.. Again these are only in the largest cities. I will be moving soon to a very big city in Alabama with a big Jewish community sometime around the end of the year.

The History of the Jews in America is well documented . Howard M. Sachar's : history of the Jews in America is easy to read . Had you understood French , but there is maybe an English traduction , Simon Dubnow's Histoire moderne du peuple Juif is also very interesting . But there are many . I have also , very interesting and helpfull . Timetables of Jewish History by Judah Gribetz [ Simon & schuster ] Another reference book , one of the best i think : Lexicon des Judentums , German , very precise . There you can see how the Jewish impact on the USA was . Many scientist for example , born ...Germany , died in exile in the USA .

No comments on them ?

A few hours ago I had replied to #62, but was surprised to find that it was not posted. I have an idea though why it was not. Disclosed were some geographical info that someone may have thought better not mentioned. I will know better next time. No, I have not seen Shabbat on another day , though some synagogues , in some areas of the US many years ago held services on Sunday. Belzer is not familiar to me. Is he famous ? The Israeli state education system seems very thorough with Jewish education. Here Jewish education is a private enterprise taken care of by the synagogues associated with each movement. Different Jews have different Jewish educations. Early Jewish education usually involves going to school after regular day school hours, for kids several days per week. For some it is for 4 or 5 years, for others it is 3 to 5 months. It all depends on how religious the family is. A religious family might send their children to a Jewish Grammar school, a jewish high school and or a jewish college. But these are only in areas with many many Jews. It can also be very expensive. Some seculars might only want to send the kids to the synagogue for a few months to be Bar Mitzvah or Bat Mitzvah. Those with a complete Jewish education early in life always have an advantage in schools wherever they go, due to the increased work loads early on. Depending where you are and/or how wealthy one is there is always Jewish summer camps, retreats etc.,for the kids. There are also many adult learning programs, seminars, adult Hebrew classes,cultural trips etc., associated with the bigger synagogues for those with little Jewish education, and for those who want to continue in advanced Jewish learning. Each movement has there own set up and their own way of doing things, and their own spheres of influence. Reform creates converts in all stages of peoples life, so they impress the importance of life long learning as a Jew. Because my Rabbi is in semi-retirement at another synagogue in another state, I am taking a self-taught course in Reading Hebrew . My synagogue is without a Rabbi at this time since my Rabbi left. We are near the end of the process in finding a new one.

Shabbat : and all the Jewish feasts begin all over the world the eve before , so not only in the reform , anywhere . GMT , maybe you use the UTC , this means the same thing . GMT = Greenwich meridian time . So when it's 12 .00 at noon there , it's 14 h. , or as you say in the USA , 2pm in Israel , and 7 or 4 am in the USA , east or west coast . You know certainly you have those differences in your big country . How is it possible for a Jew to ignore that writing is not permitted on Shabbat ? You may not light a match , light , use the elevator [ if not a Shabbat elevator ] you may not set water to boil . This of course are Orthodox laws , maybe not in use in the reform world . The more i learn from the reform , the more i understand why many say that reform is'nt Jewish anymore , sad to say . The Belzer Chassidim are one of the great movements in Orthodox Judaism . Regarding the school system i've described to you , it's not the Israeli . It's also a Galut system . They are paid by the governement funds for their "official' part . Parents pay for the Jewish lessons .

Again you wrote : if Shabbat is Saturday .....Shabbat is always on Saturday .

I guess this just reflects the differences in our approach to Judaism. Compared to Orthodoxy, I guess you could consider Reform as " Jew lite ". I can live with it. To me , not being able to strike a match or not engage in writing is on Shabbat is somewhat impractical considering how some jews have worked out all kinds of ways to getting around these laws whichto me defeats the purpose. If I was a novelist , a journalist or I made my living as a writer, then I could understand why refraining from writing would be resting from work. Anyway, I see Halacha as created by the Rabbis for another time when Jews needed these laws in order to stay out of trouble within their society. This is not to say that keeping selected Mitzvoth is not beneficial. Much of these laws have become commonsense for todays times. Reform is for assimilated Jews. I was assimilated before I was a Jew. I do not wish to push away those non-Jewish family, friends and loved ones that have been a blessing in my life. To me , strict and uncritical keeping of all the Mitzvoth is isolationist. But I can respect those that desire to keep them as they are. To some this will always be un-Jewish or not very Jewish. Thats fine. They have their opinions and I have mine. I am the product of the Jewish enviornment that was around me. This is how we do things.

Of course it is.....This is a manner of speaking.

My mother always told me : believing or not , you have to know . And i say to you : reform or not , you have to know . Not to know that Jewish law forbids some actions on Shabbat , even you're reform , or very secular as i am , is , in my view , inacceptabble . I do'nt know if you smoke , but it's very possible that one day you will be invited to an Orthodox , let's say Bar mitzwa , on a Shabbat . How will you feel , if people will look at you when lighting a cigarette ? You wo'nt feel good i suppose , and that's why you have to know . I , a SECULAR , know how to behave in a synagogue , and in other places too . I'm not talking about my ideas about the reform movement , not important , you certainly feel them . But you said it by yourself : assimilated . Have a fine Shabbat

You are right by not wanting to push away those non-Jewish family , or those non-Jewish friends . You should not do this . I have many non-Jewish friends , why not , even some very christian believing people . We are still in touch , and when i'm visiting my birth country , they welcome me with open arms [ and with a good bottle wine or champaign ] Even ultra Orthodox can have non-Jewish family . I know a women , converted Orthodox , married to a Belzer , who is still in touch with her family , and maybe also with her school friends . I do not agree with you when saying that keeping the mitswot is isolationist . You can't eat everywhere , and then ? , you can always visit non-Jewish people . Non-Jewish people can come to an Othodox home . An Orthodox will not travel on Shabbat ? there are six other days in the week . Keeping the mitswoth does'nt mean to isolate yourself [ maybe for some yes , but i think a small minority ]