if it is true it is simply disgusting. those in charge are responsible and should make sure this never happens again. somebody must be punished..........but then in this country does anyone ever realy get punished????????we are living in a society that has no values.

I too was appalled on a recent visit to Birkenau in early April this year. A March of the living tour was occurring with literally hundreds of Israeli teenagers there. Near the area 'Canada' and Crematorium hundreds of plastic water bottles were dumped on the ground and inbetween the railway tracks.. They were all walking around draped in Israeli flags etc I got the feeling the death of the Auschwitz victims was being 'monopolised' by the visitors who showed an utter lack of respect and dignity...

If the Israelis has no respect for their victims , how you ask the rest of the world to respect it ??

"Let the Poles wonder where the money went. " I am sorry you are being simply silly. What money? You think that YOU are the source of income? Wake up. No more than 30 thousand of Israelis visits Poland each year, WHAT sort of money can they leave there? Billions? Trillions? Give me a break. Also, I know that hotel owner are already happy that this Israeli money did not go to their hotels: they were running out of THEIR own money fixing the mess left by your youth...

Are you really that selfish and ignorant? Dead Jews? You think only JEWS were killed there? What about Poles, Germans, Russians, Gypsies and dozen of other countries whos citizens were killed there? Shame on you. Read some books before spreading nonsense like that.

do you really recognize if somebody is jewish or not just on the basis of his ideas? kol haKavod, you are a magician. i didn't know that saying something good about poles deprives me of my jewish identity. Pathetic

Simon, honestly. I just laughed reading your nonsense. To #22. sure, they 'went'. Who? Rude Israeli youth or they grandparents? Plus they already do whatever they want: cellphones in places of memory, shit on beds and in sinks, beaten locals by Israeli guards...

True. No values and no culture.

Such nerve, kids walking around with their country's flag. Who are the Poles to tell Jews off for dishonoring the gas chambers? We suffered, it's our tragedy- we'll decide what's appropriate and deal with those who do not adhere to those standards.

You don't get it, do you? IT IS NOT A JEWISH EXCLUSIVE DEATH PLACE. Dozen of countries lost their children in Auschwitz's gas chambers! You want to use a cell in your synagouge? GO AHEAD. But keep your voice down and pay respect to millions of dead in this sad place. It's not a freaking summer camp, you ignorant!

1. First of all, I'm not sure that it's exclusively Poles who complain. The article says "the management of the Auschwitz camp". I know the camp is run, or at least supervised by an international council also composed of Jews. 2. Did all Jews agree that using cell phones in gas chambers is OK? This may be subject to debate... 3. As Greg pointed out, it's primarily but not exclusively a Jewish camp. Some 70,000 non-Jewish Poles perished there and others too.

"Polish officials have also complained about the Israeli youth who walk in the streets wrapped in Israeli flags". This sounds controversial and I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand it's a free country and it's nobody's business who walks with what flag and where, especially if there is a reason. On the other hand, I think I understand a little what they have in mind. I had an opportunity to participate in Catholic Youth days in Canada when JPII was still alive. The people who came there usually carried some national symbols (t-shirts, hats, flags), especially Poles. It was fine and mostly harmless but there were moments when I suspected that we were getting on other people's nerves. There is a limit of what you can express with those symbols. At some point it becomes oversaturated and others begin to wonder what is really your goal and whether your attitude is not some sort of defiance towards everybody outside your group.

I think that we as Jews approach Holy Places and places of memory differently than European non-Jews. I think the kids talking on the phones is not meant in a disrespectful way. Perhaps they want to share the feelings they have with family when standing on the death-site of millions of their own. It's the same with Jews and holyness. We enter a Syngagogue without changing our facial expression, trying to look oh so holy for 45-minutes, as many Christians do in Church. I visted Anne Franks house with a group of young European Jews, and I can remember that in some ways we seemed to be less affected by the experience than the non-Jews visting. But I think this is because we as Jews know all of this so very well, and we think of it almost every day in some way. For the non-Jews it's more about feeling sorry for those Jews. For us the Living Jews, the feelings are and should be different, and it is up to us to remember our own our own way.

Hey Justine, I believe you are the same person that posted few thoughts of your on other forum :) I always like to read your comments, for you are always calm and gentle, and I noticed that at the end of every thread that I read the worst Pole hater were addressing you with a respect - you, with your knowledge, the facts and your attitude can really make people think and re-think their way. And I respect that. Cheers! :)

this shouldbe put into perspcetive here. 60 yrs ago the poles were the ones doing the killing, now they think it is disrespectful that some vistors want to talk on the cell phones. if they had not killed jews there in the first place then cell phones wouldnt be needed to talk on there...as for the jews wrapped in flags, the poles are still the same AS. they need to be reminded that they need to change their views towards anti-semtic realities. so what? everyoneshould wear flags, thye took people to a camp ground with remains sticking up as a campground these bus drivers......we should be worreid about offending them??????????i dont think so

a cell phone in the gas chamber. The first thing said back in the old days would of been," Get me the hell outta here!!!" Jews get a little talkative in the gas chamber? Maybe this is a great thing. I'm for people who are loud when confronted with their possible death from retrobates. Jews have nothing to apologize about when using a phone in one of the most wicked places on earth. The Europeans ought to have counseling as well for the youth after visiting the barbarians den. A colorful flag on a Jews body is offensive? Imagine how the Jews that returned to Poland and Europe felt....as their former neighbors told them to hit the road after taking over the Jews homes during the war? I hear more whining for Palestinian terrorists from Europeans than the conditions they left the Jews in after WWII. It's easier to call the kettle black in Europe. It's all those Jews fault that things are'nt going quite right. Don't mess up the Hotels. The land and the Hotel was probably owned by a Jew before it was taken away in the first place.

It's an interesting point, and I agree that the whole cell-phone issue is debatable. This is a new technology and there are no long-established guidelines as to what is "appropriate" and "inappropriate" in this case. Regarding the behavior in churches, not everybody tries to look holy (or at least we do not see it this way), but the norm is that you should talk in a lower voice and avoid brusque movements (running, or just an attitude that is too casual). Same goes for graveyards. And I have indeed encountered opinions of non-Jews who said they were surprised that young Jews they saw in camps were talking loudly, shouting, pushing each other etc, exactly as kids would do in any other place. But I'm not sure whether one could say that Jews seem less affected. Sometimes I had the opposite feeling. I remember when the Prime minister of Canada visited Auschwitz with some members of the Jewish community. He was visibly shaken but quiet ,whereas some old Jewish men who accompanied him weeped really loud. And I thought to myself that maybe in the Jewish culture it was more acceptable to express one's sentiments in this way. I would say that in European culture, crying in public is slightly weird, especially for men. But then, I don't really know what are the norms in Israeli culture.

Come on! You make me blush ;) I try to be kind for the sake of people who deserve it, and because I know I can be mean too...so now I pay a little bit more attention to my manners on the internet. I read your posts as well and I know you bring a lot of good points. Cheers :)

"if they had not killed jews there in the first place then cell phones wouldnt be needed to talk on there..." Here we go again...Poles did not kill Jews THERE, because Poles did not set, nor operate the concentration camps. The Israeli ambassador in Poland, the ADL and the World Jewish Congress have all issued statements reminding people of this. If you do not believe me and want the quotes, I will be happy to provide them to you.

"The Polish tacit acceptance of Jew killing as a norm is more than well documented." Please, be my guest and show me those documents, I am EAGER to read them. Get a spine? YOU get a grip on yourself and stop whining so much.

you uneducated, ignorant man: Poles DID the killing? Where did you learn THAT history? Read books before spreading such lies and nonsense. GERMANS! Germans did the killing, they orchestrated killing throughout whole Europe, they were killing Poles in the first place, you ignorant moron! None Pole took ever a part in mass killing of Jews in the camps. Name ONE PERSON that helped Germans in mass killing or did that killing alone! NAME IT! PS. Say 'hello' to your grandpa from Jewish Red Militia - butchers of Poles

Actually it is funny: you, Jews, OFFICIALY re-wrote History. Now, Poles, the first victims of Germans, who saved thousands of Jewish lives risking their own lives, are officialy 'the ones doing the killing'. Nice. Tomorrow I'll read that the Poles started WWII and Germans invaded Poland ONLY trying to save butchered Jews. You are pathetic.

If you ever feel like sharing your thoughts with a felow Pole, write any time: gie er e gie malpa em e gie er e gie kropka ce o em Isn't that annoying that more and more Israelis (as well as American Jews and NOT only) blame Poles for holocaust and for actual killing of the Jews? Where do they learn history? Do they learn it at all (I honestly doubt that)? Every time I read such a nonsense I am speechless. cheers.

For killing of Jews , here some facts Aug. 1945 ; Anti Jewish riots in Cracow Oct . 1945 The same in Sosnowiec and 8 Jews killed in Boleslawiec Nov 1945 Anti Jewish riots in Lublin Dec 1945 : 11 Jews killed in Kosow Lacki By the end of the year , seven months after the end of WWII , Polish antisemites have killed 350 Jews in Poland . July 1946 : polish murder 42 Jews in a pogrom at Kielce . Source : Timetables of Jewish History . Those facts can't be denied , and those murders were not the work of the nazis , it were Poles . The Kielce pogrom caused a vast quantity of Jews to flee Poland .

As a non Jewish Spaniard supporting Israel, I'm used to deal with people influenced by the terribly biased and anti Israeli Spanish media. I've seen by myself that it's difficult to make the world understand your suffering, your achievements, your struggle for self defence and survival as a modern and democratic country surrounded by enemies. Everyone knows that the world, Poland too, didn't do enough for Jews in WWII, and the world doesn't do enough for Israel nowadays. BUT that is not the point here. In this case we're are talking about just respect and good manners in a place where millions of people died, it doesn't matter if we're Jews or not. According to some of the talkbacks read here, I, as a non Jew, have not right to talk on cellular there. But if I say that some Spanish Republican fighters died there maybe I could make a call? It's nonsense. Respect basic behavioural norms and that's all. Being Jew or supporting Israel doesn't mean to support what Israel or Israeli society does in every case. Some of the talkbacks here should learn that. I'm really happy we have Shimon (#7, #36) here in Madrid. Bright opinions like these are the ones which make me love Israel as a advanced and moderated country, not full with hatred for others.

Dude, I never denied that Poles did kill Jews during the war; this quote "if they had not killed jews there in the first place then cell phones wouldnt be needed to talk on there..." (there = Auschwitz) clearly suggests that that were Poles WHO KILLED JEWS IN AUSCHWITZ, which is nothing but nasty LIE. You counted how many Jews were killed by Poles? 400? Say ten thousand, including other lives being lost (killed by thugs in Poland). Is this a number that makes us, Poles, responsible for holocaust and mass murdering?!?! Tell me, how many Poles lost their lives because they were murdered by Jewish Red Militia (1939) in Eastern Poland when Soviets invaded Poland and you Jews happilly took a part in slaughter of the Poles? How many Jewish neighbours saved a single Polish life? There is NONE document that says so. Please give me a break, we can count dead Poles who died from Jewish hands and other way around all day - this leads nowhere. Point is, you scream to whole world that around 400 Jews died, but YOU FORGET about your own crimes. This is an atrocity and it's just wrong.

If Poles were killed by Jewish [ ? ] red militia , it was not because they were Poles . Jews were killed only for being Jewish , and that's a big difference . I did'nt say that the Poles operated the death camps situated in their country . But did they something agains it ? Now the numbers i gave for the murdered Jews after the war , do'nt show that all Poles are or where so philosemites . There were Brave Poles during the war , more than 6000 were awarded the Righteous Amongst the Nations medals , and in Poland hidding a Jew could be punished by death penalty . In Poland there was also the Zegota organisation [ did you hear about this ? ] launched by a profound Catholic writer , this in order to save Jews . You see , i can also recognise positive facts , not only the bad side .

Poles were killed by Red Militia BECAUSE they were Poles. When Russions invaded Poland on September 17, 1939 they were greeted by Jews who kissed their tanks and welcomed them with flowers. Then, the hunts started, turning even gentle Jewish women into brutal Pole-killers. There are information about that on the Net, you can easily find about Jewish atrocities against their Polish neighbours during that time. Also, your statement that Poles did not do anything against the camps situated in Poland is simply unjust and really hurtful to me. Poland was under German occupation, Poles were murdered everywhere, they were FIRST victims of this war. Final solution for Jews was not introduced by 1941, before that time mostly Poles were brutally killed. Tell me: what Poles could do against concentration camps located in their neighbourhood surrounded by such a unspeakable terror? What? Write a letter to Hitler? 'We people of occupied Poland would like to protest....?' Do you think that Germans asked Poles for the permission? What else could they do? Fight? And fight they did. Whole war Poles were fighting against Germans (on every European front you can only think of) and in the first stage of war against Russians, too. I appreciate that you can recognise positive side of Polish situation and I can assure you that those Poles who were killing Jews or reported them to the Germans - they were nothing but thugs. Plus they more likely found their own death soon after, being killed by Polish Underground. An individual who colaborated with Germans was excecuted by the same Army and calling Poles collaborators is just another very unjust statement (I know you did not call them like it, but many of your compatriots do). Anyways, thank you for your input. Kind regards, Greg

Tell me why the Russians were welcomed with flowers by the Jews ? Maybe were they thinking that the Russians will free them from oppression ? Poles , who knew very well what was going around in those camps , could have sabotaged , one sample , the railway tracks . In other countries there was also an occupation army , maybe not conducting herself on the same way they did in Poland , because in the nazi eyes , the Poles where , after the Jews the second lowest ranked . You are also right when stating that the "final solution" was elaborated in 1941 . This was the culminating point of an evolution that began much earlier . If you read some books on this subject you will see this evolution , step by step . Yes , you are right , there was a Polish army fighting against the Germans . Listen , Poles had , have , and probably will also , in the future , have a bad name in the Jewish world . Probably that most of them do not deserve this . Maybe it results from the great number of Jews who lived there , many of them who suffered there on the hands of Poles .

> Tell me why the Russians ... oppression ? Charles, Soviet army WAS an oppressors' army, you tell me WHY Jewish people kissed their tanks?! > Poles ... could have sabotaged ... the railway tracks You apparently do not realize about the realities of the 2nd WW - this was not a war you could see in TV with interviews and live coverage. Poland and Poles were killed everywhere, everyday, there was 'collective responsibilities' were hundreds of people were brutally killed. Do you really think that next to the KL people lived their normal lives, had farms, happy families, were doing their every-day-routine not caring what was going on?! There were people, soldier (not only) that brought news about that horrible, unhuman sites to the west world: and west world simply did not believe them. Also, tell me, you blame Poles for all atrocities. Why don't you blame France? They collaborated with Germans and sent probably all of their Jews to KLs. Why not Lithuanias? They had killed 240 THOUSAND Jews, 10 high rank officers of their army (serving under Germans, I suppose) were going to be prosecuted - that never happened, they died in peace walking free. Why don't you blame your fellow Jews from America? They did nothing to save European Jews. NOTHING. I have more whys. > Poles had, have, and ... bad name in the Jewish ... most of them do not deserve this. No. They don't. Antisemitism in Poland is no more, and no less than antisemitism in any other country. I would personally say it is even less. This 'bad name' is caused, is being caused for dozen of years now. Stupid, disgusting antipolonism to discredit all Poles. It started almost a hunder years ago, and got its summon during WWII - Soviets spreaded fabricated lies to weaken Poland - since then, after war anybody could say anything about Poland - She was under regime and Polish gov did not care (why, most of them were Jews anyways). These days it apparently reached another, way higher summon - Poles (and Poland) are blame for holocaust and murdering 6 milions Jews. Why today's gov does not protest, does not do anything to stop this unjust hate, antipolish propaganda and hatred - that is beyond me. Cheers Man, ~g.