I don't think I've ever heard a straight guy who actually "got it" so completely.

From #96 http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3294083,00.html (Addressed to Batel, but appropriate for BUSH without alteration.) Batel argues that it is undemocratic for a minority to march against the preferenced of a majority. Is this a new Israeli definition of democracy? Batel seems to be unfamiliar with concepts of individual rights (perhaps he should read the US Constitution?), or with the idea that a government in a democratic republic does not simply act based on the whims of a majority. Poor Batel! He's such a victim! I guess when blacks marched in Selma Alabama, they were being coercive! Go to school, Batel, and learn something about democracy. You seem to think it's rule by the mob.

if you support this legislation, and in particular its extension to other cities in Israel, then you simply fail Democracy 101. If you succeed, you will either (1) produce a second diaspora consisting of Israeli Jews who want no part of your preferred theocracy, or (2) you will see a heightened war between so-called seculars and so-called religious Jews. In either case, you can expect, in a weakened state, to be killed by hate-filled Muslims. And there will be yet another chapter of Jewish history where Jews were killed and scattered because of "baseless hatred." In your "desire to please G-d," you will surely displease Him. Yet another interesting paradox.

The Knesset finally did something right. I hope this reaches the status of a full law. Maybe next they can eliminate the stupid domestic partnerships and acceptance of gays in the barracks next to you (or maybe behind you in the shower) in the military. All signs point to the degeneration of western society, and unfortunately the Jews, in the form of Israel, are being a "light unto nations" in a negative way. We need to return to being a moral "light unto nations" and stand up for sanity, morality, and normalcy in our society so that we can help to influence the western world in a positive way.

Thanks to Israels failed democracy now we have both these problems you mention. 1 million Israelis already moved to America alone also there is already a cold war between these 2 groups. BTW believe it or not most seculars will not back those that are gay even if it would mean teaming up with religious.

Did it ever occur to you that I may not be Jewish? What if I am Muslim? Or Christian? Will you be as bigoted toward me as you claim others are toward you? Sigh. My "preferred theocracy"??!! Hardly. I really do try to please G-d. FYI, it is HIS THEOCRACY. If you can not understand that, well... I give up. Okay, mister! Tell me your spin on why Jews no longer have multiple wives! And explain that whole male temple prostitute thing again! It made no sense to me! Whose temple? What male Prostitutes?? If you have no money to pay the temple, why did you have to have anal sex with a male prostitute??! HELLO!! If they are called prostitutes that means you pay them money!! So, if you have no money, why wuld you have sex with a prostitute??

Baruch, In proper Hebrew it is "Chazak U'varuch". The dagesh must fall after the Shuruk in the letters BEGEDKEFET (Bayt, Gimmel, Dalet, kaf, peh, and Tav).

Baruch (#64) lives in Boston. Their Pride parade is coming up. Is Baruch going to scream obscenities from the sidewalk? Oh, I hope not. For that matter, Massachusetts is the only state in the US with legal marriage rights extended to same-sex couples. Baruch: have the plagues visited Newbury Street? Is there a wailing and gnashing of teeth on Mass Ave? From what you say, you live in one of the most degenerate cities in the United States, since Massachusetts grants full civil rights to gay people. Maybe you need to move somewhere less tolerant. Happy Pride!

BUSH, I completely grant the dreadful condition of Israeli democracy. The question for me is how to reform it. Reform does not begin by gutting free speech & assembly. That is why I vigorously opposed the Sharon/Kadima attacks on Orange Israel's speech and assembly. I do not know why there are so many Israelis now in the US, but surely hard economic times in Israel had much to do with this, and perhaps, also, some of these yoreds were faux Jews brought from Russia for political purposes. I also grant that there is already a cold war between "secular" and "religious." The question is how to warm hearts and end the cold war. Truly, I do not know if this is possible, but I am pretty sure that Haredi efforts to kill free speech and assembly will turn the cold war into a hot one. BTW, a majority of IDF recruits have never visited Jerusalem, I am told. I suspect one reason is that these recruits like neither the Haredim nor the Arabs and identify both with Jerusalem.

"Did it ever occur to you that I may not be Jewish? What if I am Muslim? Or Christian? Will you be as bigoted toward me as you claim others are toward you?" My dear Sheikh, would you like to calculate the odds of a goy coming up with your nom de plume? My focus is not on the goyim, certainly not on the goyim in Israel. If you were a Muslim in Israel, you would most likely be a fifth columnist out to kill all Jews and turn Israel into another Arab cesspool. Would I treat you in a "bigoted" fashion? Of course! I would treat you in the same way I would treat Germans during the Nazi period. If you were a Christian, and you were not a missionary, I would have far fewer concerns. If you were a Christian "Palestinian," I'd look at you very carefully. Yes, regarding Israel, I do distinguish between Jew and non-Jew, even though this puts me in the same camp as Ovadia Yosef. However, this distinction is fully Torah Compliant, so you should not complain. "Sigh. My "preferred theocracy"??!! Hardly. I really do try to please G-d. FYI, it is HIS THEOCRACY. If you can not understand that, well... I give up." May I suggest we learn something from the Christians? How about distinguishing between the City of Man and the City of God? How about having a democracy in Israel until the Messiah shows up? Yes, I know all that speculation about how to bring him down, but I SERIOUSLY DOUBT Haredi rioting is a good way. I don't understand your fixation of late on polygamy. I have not given this much thought. Generally, though, polygamy is quite rare in human civilizations, as it requires disadvantaging a majority of males, who do not like this one bit. The change might have something to do with a gradual leveling of political power in Jewish society. The "temple" was The Temple. You paid your prostitutes, and you skipped the offerings. Think about how O. Yosef would handle this state of affairs! Maybe that's how the Jews of yestermillenium handled it.

John D., you are so insightful. First, I don't scream obscenities at the freaks in the gay parade because I wouldn't attend it. Still, I feel sympathetic for the people whose children will perhaps accidentally watch it and think that this circus side show of emotionally unbalanced individuals is in any way normal. God forbid they should tell their kids the truth or they may be branded as "bigots" or "ignorant". The nonsense about plagues and wailing resulting from legal gay marriage is more of the nonsense that the gay lobby uses to make a case for their demands. The fact is that moral degeneracy in the form of "sex education" is rampant in the public schools because of the acceptance of all the stupid variations of sexual preferences. They take young kids who don't really understand life and, against many parents' wishes, indoctrinate them to believe all these things are to be admired. In fact, at young ages, they ask them to question their sexuality, and to consider if perhaps they may fall into these idiotic categories. This is the legacy of gay acceptance, a mind set attempting to induce kids to be freaks like themselves by getting to them at very impressionable ages. Our idiotic new governor, Deval Patrick, strongly supports this. It will die someday, but it will do a lot of damage before it goes.

That's it. You got me all figured out. I'm haredim, I sponge off the government, I don't work, my children don't do their national army service and I've been known here and there to partake in the odd riot in Jerusalem. Burning tyres and smashing internet cafes is one of my hobbies, don't you know. Damn, you are good.

"Would I treat you in a 'bigoted' fashion? Of course!" Well, you really are quite the bigot now, arn't you? If you treat others in a way you do not wish to be treated, while at the same time crying about the bad treatment you think you recieve, that is called HYPOCRACY. Too bad you can't see that. My fixation on polygamy is to illustrate what should be obvious. The ancient Hebrews considered a man with many wives normal. Even enviable, one blessed by G-d. Yet, you can not show me even one example of homosexual marriage in the Holy Scriptures, can you? If you can, please give me book, chapter and verse so I can read it. Think about it. Ancient Israel lost a lot of men in battle. There were many widows. Some with children and some not. G-d never intended for children to be raised by one parent. Also, G-d wanted many offspring, He promised Abraham his decendants would be numbered like the sands on the beaches. He commanded Israelites to marry widowed in-laws so they could raise up seed for their fallen. How is that different from today? Do you not see how important this is to the very existance of Israel? Can you not see how widowed women struggle to raise their children? My heart goes out to one in particular. She works so hard to pay her monthly bills. She tries so hard to provide for her only child, she is about to starve herself. She is on the verge of a nervous breakdown! Male temple prostitutes: When the Pentatuch was written, The Temple did not exist yet. There was only the Tabernacle. So it is hard for me to see how there would be male temple prostitutes outlawed by Leviticus. From Genesis to Deuteronomy.... from Joshua to Malachi.. If you can give me book, chapter and verse showing this, I'll be glad to read up on it!

Try googling Rabeinu Gershom to learn more about what and why he ruled against polygamy at least for the European Jews. ENJOY!

and by the way, that's Sheikh yer booty!

I am an Amercian. I am a Christian. I support this ban simply on the basis that Your country is YHWH's land and these act are the kinds that required Judges being raised and the loss of Israel's boarders back in the day. You best learn your own history i can not imagine what will happen if public displays of rebellion are allowed to continue. Democracy is evil and a mob mentality. Tell YHWH it was your right, i will pray for you that you come around in your rebellion. G*D is merciful but deals out his Justice when he needs too. I i absolutely embrace the idea of a STRAIGHT HETROSEXUAL PARADE TO REMIND YOU ALL WHAT IS NORMAL BEHAVIOR FOR MEN AND WOMEN!!!!!!!! G*D BLESS AMERICA AND G*D BLESS ISRAEL, PLEASE

I am glad the Knesset made the correct decision in preventing pride parades. Let them keep Torah in mind, now, and in the future.

Baruch, my dear yored, I'm surprised you show your face here again after the whupping I gave you last year. As before, you are completely unable to go beyond concatenations (I cannot call them sentences or paragraphs) of catchphrases, banalities, and insults. And yet, you are so condescending when delivering such piffle. I won't waste much time with Baruch this year, but if others want to review an exchange that he and I had last year, I have supplied a link (Ynet). Just search for "Baruch". http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3324182,00.html

Your understanding of the Bible is just a bit OFF. Anyway, I'll just stop responding if we can't make more progress. Your discussion of homosexuality is full of straw men. For example, I never claimed that the ancient Jews accepted marriage between men, or that it was anywhere in the "Holy Scriptures." The ancient Greeks didn't have marriage between men either. Are you arguing that man-on-man action was banned there as well? What really annoys me, though, is your first paragraph, where you provide no context for the snippet you offer: "'Would I treat you in a 'bigoted' fashion? Of course!' Well, you really are quite the bigot now, arn't you? If you treat others in a way you do not wish to be treated, while at the same time crying about the bad treatment you think you recieve, that is called HYPOCRACY. Too bad you can't see that." What a wretched analysis. In the first place, as a Jew, I am COMMANDED to treat Jews differently from goyim. Specifically (Lev 19:17-18): 17 You shall not hate your kinsfolk in your heart. Reprove your kinsman but incur no guilt because of him. 18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against your countrymen. Love your fellow as yourself: I am the Lord." By a conventional (Christian) definition, this would be called "bigotry" or "prejudice." But I am not a Christian, and I am referring to goings on in Israel, which is supposed to be both democratic and Jewish. (Remember the "both." Israel was not created only for the clown suited ones; indeed, they were an embarrassment to the founders.) Your complete mistake, though, is to imply that a religious Jew has, or should have, the same relation to a secular Jew as a secular Jew should have to a Muslim. That is absurd, not only for biblical reasons but for practical ones. Muslims in large numbers want to kill you and turn Israel into another Muslim state; secular Jews do not. My "bigotry" apparently consists of my acknowledgment of this fact. Well, so be it. Do you even believe there should be a Jewish state? Isn't it "racist" and "bigoted" after all?

Israel is allowing the gays to parade... in any other country that will allow it !

aren't they ashamed parading their own unnatural sexuality.this is telling me that the israelites have more backbones than the people in congress.

Nothing in the proposed legislation prevents homosexuals from engaging in the sin of sodomy in their own homes. Nothing in this legislation demeans persons of particular sexual orientation. All it says is that you can't march and flaunt your perversion in the face of others. All these laws do is prevent people from MARCHING and flaunting their sexual "freedom" or deviation in the streets in a city and a land that is historically a religious ground zero. Not only homosexuals, but fornicators, adulterers, pedophiles, and/or people who engage in bestiality should not be allowed to march in the streets as a "proclamation" and/or in your face "look at us". By the way, you don't see heterosexuals marching in the streets proclaiming how "special" heterosexual sex is. Heterosexuals not having "parades" don't make them feel as if "their" human rights are violated. Gay parades are a selfish "in your face" attempt by activists to force their lifestyle down your throat. Such will never happen for too many people believe God either in the Old Testament or New Testament that homosexuality is sin. It is an abomination. But let us also not forget that ALL sexual immoratily is sin. Fornicators and adulterers will not inherit the Kingdom of God either. Nor should they be permitted to flaunt their sin in the faces of others either. Homosexuals desire that their sin of homosexuality to be "ACCEPTED" and they must realize that their sin will NEVER be accepted by many peoples and/or God. God does NOT change. It is still a sin. Broad is the path that leads to destruction and sorry if many of us just don't want to "march" and/or walk along that path with you the unashamed sodomite. You are operating under a delusion and unless your eyes open you'll die in your sins.

My thanks to the members of the Knesset who are showing backbone amidst being on the receiving end of a withering attack from those who are purposely blind to the aftermath of men and women being different. I challenge anyone to explain how homosexuality affirms the reality that men and women are different.

Define secular for me. As a secular Jew, do you believe in the existance of the G-d of Abraham? If so, do you believe we are to be observant and obediant to Him? You seem to quote verses you like while ignoring verses you don't. I am just trying to understand your logic. Everytime I come into my office, I look for your responses to my TBs. sk, I am disappointed by this one, not because you disagree with me, but because you want to play this game on an uneven playing field. I would like to see progress, too, so let's cut to the chase. I have asked you for book, chapter and verse (more than once) to back up your statements. I know of no place in Holy Writ were ANY kind of sex outside the confines of marriage is acceptable by G-d. I can quote plenty of referrences to back up what I am saying. If you do know of such that backs up what you are saying, please share them with me now. I am going to ignore the rest of your TB for now because it does not answer the questions I have asked you.

sk, you really have a problem with me. Of course, you attack everyone who doesn't support the sexual freaks you seem to like, but you take great pleasure in thinking you gave me a "whupping". I don't remember being whupped. The fact is that homosexuality, and all the other wierd and abnormal things, are just that, wierd and abnormal. You know it, and I know it, and so does everyone on these TB's. The real issue is how one feels about it. People who think it's fun or a preferred deviance for themselves view it one way. People who want a stable sensible society with normal families, normal kids, and normal family and neighborhood relationships view it a different way. Given that we're so different, all we normal people ask is that you leave us alone and hang around with your own people in the Castro or Provincetown or SoHo or something like that, and do whatever you want with each other. Just don't come to PTA meetings as two mommies or two daddies. And don't parade around places like Jerusalem. Pretty simple request, isn't it?

#4- TOO BAD! CANCEL ALL PRIDE ACTIVITIES. I CAN'T BELIEVE ISRAEL OF ALL PLACES ON EARTH WOULD EVEN CONSIDER ALLOWING SUCH FILTH IN PUBLIC. AND WHY IS OLMERT STILL YOUR LEADER?

" As long as Gay people are persecuted and referred to as 'beasts' by some Israeli politicians, the country cannot be referred to as a democracy or a civilised country." As compared to areas under PA control where gay Palestinians can be taken out and murdered in the street?

Now that Israel's legislature has done this, the biggest obstacle has been removed that kept the Hebrew God from blessing Israel with victory. Syria and Iran be aware that the only God of the universe, the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob knows what you are planning and will stop you. Save your lives now by stopping your nations leadership from picked a fight with the apple of God's eye, the Jews of Israel.

Looks like the Sublime Censor is protecting you. Not sure why. Please refer to my #78, where I link to a detailed proof that you are a mental lightweight.

Ah, up to the old reverse gay bashing tricks again. "mental lightweight"? Sounds like you have no response for my pointing out the truth that we here on these TB's ALL, and I repeat, ALL, no matter which side you take, know that the GLBT crowd is just a bunch of maladjusted freaks, and the only thing we are debating is whether we feel we want to tolerate their in-your-face nauseating behavior, or whether we prefer to be left alone to our separate lives. By the way, this is serious business, which will affect all of normal society, and I think you view this as some sort of a fun high school debating match. The winners and losers here are not the debaters, but the real people whom these obnoxious freaks seem to like to annoy and infuriate with their stupid parades and other offensive behavior.