Would you prefer a country of productive people, who work, create, live and protest in peace? look at cities that have a large religious polulation, Benei Braq is a disfunctional city, Jerusalem (almost discunctional), Beitar and so on. The Haredi community is disfunctional and needs the secular community to survive. If you don't work, don't pay taxes, don't go to the army and preach to others that they are immoral? I believ in what i see and I can see an imoral violent society, one which does not belive in the state, but takes money from it, one which denies the holocaust and sits with the greatest jew killers in the world in the name of god, a society which does not believe in the here and now, but is willing to threaten peoples lives, harm police, civilians, throw rocks at cars, pour oil on roads, this is the great Haredi community. If I were them, I would focus on making my own society heathy.

G-d fearing people are saying something you don't want to hear. You'd much rather live in sin and shmutz than conduct yourself like a decent human being with moral upstanding values.

How can they even consider parading in the Holy city of Jerusalem?? its mind blowing, i never heard christian gay parades at christian holy places or Muslims parading in holy places?? even if you don't believe in religion, at least show some respect for people, who do believe that Jerusalem is sacred, isn't that the exact thing your trying to achieve with these parades supposedly????

what the hell is so cultured about prouncing around in womens clothing with your shlang hanging out?? and peacefull??? thats about as violent in nature as one can get??

Miriam when you talk about "moral upstanding values" do you mean morals which allow parents to kill their kids (as in the case of Rabbi Wies granchild)? Morals which allow people to act violently? morals which allow husbands to hit their wives? morals which allow MK's to steal government money? (a common tradition in Shas for example), morals what morals are you talking about? maybe it is things I can't see, but what I can see does not look terrible. Tell me in your glass ball what does it say about your own moral life?

far from "disfunctional". If only all of Israel would look like this, we wouldn't have a problem with terrorists. "The Haredi community is disfunctional and needs the secular community to survive. " You're getting it all wrong. In this beautiful city of Bnei Brak, a city full of Torah, have you heard of any civilians who were killed by suicide bombers? "If you don't work, don't pay taxes, don't go to the army and preach to others that they are immoral?" As far as I know, those who work all pay taxes. Where'd you pick up that it's not so. I don't know any haredi working person who doesn't pay taxes. Preaching immorality is because G-d hates it more than he hates any other sin being committed. And those who are for this parade are only doing it to spite G-d. "one which denies the holocaust and sits with the greatest jew killers" NK is an exclusive tiny group of Jews acting against the authorization of our Rabbis. This group is officially excommunicated by all Rabbis and Jews worldwide. Just for your knowledge. So there's nothing to discuss about them. They're not part of the haredim, as far as I know. "I would focus on making my own society heathy." Great idea. Start with focusing on a healthy soul.

First of all how to behave as a Mensch .

To each his/her own. I have no objections to Gays and Lesbians enjoying whatever practices they feel comfortable with. What i don't understand is why they specifically have to hold a parade in a city (Jerusalem) where they know that the parade will offend people. There are plenty of other places and/or cities that will cheerfully accept the parade being held there. Why be spiteful?

#17--- so the 'PARADE' is for those who contribute.... now thats very amusing... contribute what? sodomy, can~t keep in the parks, have to parade filth thru our holy streets , bringing your farm animals with you? -the world was created in 6 days,

who compared these haredim to islamics? The cold difference is the paraders would all be butchered in the streets of mecca if they tried this there. Heads would be paraded around on spikes for ages after that. The bottom line is - if the gays have the right to march.... then the haredim have the right to protest it. And no the rabbis have not been promoting violence... and no Ynet doesnt show both sides of the story The fact is, even people watching from far away lands...ie...me are thinking that the govt. of Israel has brought shame apon itself for even allowing this farce to go this far. I am not religious, and not a jew, but I do not support this gay-pride(less) parade at all....especially through jerusalem Oh and dont bother telling me to get educated, my education was probably far superior to yours

You go girl.

But I guess if you live in such darkness and ignorance, you lack the basis for a sense of beauty. ---> "You're getting it all wrong. In this beautiful city of Bnei Brak, a city full of Torah, have you heard of any civilians who were killed by suicide bombers?" The Haredim would be killed en mass by the Muslims if they were not protected by the IDF. You are about as able to defend yourselves as post-War Europe was to defend itself against the USSR. Clown suits did not protect you in Poland, and they will not protect you in Israel. --->""If you don't work, don't pay taxes, don't go to the army and preach to others that they are immoral?" As far as I know, those who work all pay taxes. Where'd you pick up that it's not so. I don't know any haredi working person who doesn't pay taxes. What a crock. First, you misread the other TB, which refers to the Haredim who do not work, and who, therefore, do not pay taxes on their earnings. This is indeed "dysfunctional" as well as parasitic. You ignore the point that most Haredim dodge the draft (legally). They are, therefore, yet again, not self-sufficient, living in a dark ltitle bubble protected by those they loathe. ---> "And those who are for this parade are only doing it to spite G-d." How about this alternative: some of those for the parade are doing it to show their contempt for YOU? ---> "NK is an exclusive tiny group of Jews acting against the authorization of our Rabbis. This group is officially excommunicated by all Rabbis and Jews worldwide." You lie, Miriam. There is simply no way to "excommunicate" the NK world wide. But I guess it's ok to lie to infidels, right? --->""I would focus on making my own society heathy." Great idea. Start with focusing on a healthy soul." I would start with obtaining a useful education so you don't need to mooch.

I take your advice : - ) ~ ben singapore

Please have your rabbis put their curse on me. I call them contemptible, ignorant charlatans who abuse simpletons like you. When you attribute Sharon's stroke to rabbinical curses, are you pretending that your sainted rabbis do not have heart attacks, strokes, or cancer? If they do who puts the curse on them? Why are you people so hostile to homosexuals? Is it something that you fear in yourselves? Healthy normal people are not obsessed with sex, their own or someone else's.

stay home help out your wives, if you got any, wash the floor if you're worried about cleanliness, daven and stay out of trouble. You're more valuable in one piece.

"morals which allow parents to kill their kids (as in the case of Rabbi Wies granchild)?" YNet obviously did not report that Yisroel Valis was exonerated of all charges in the death of his son, which was caused by medical incompetence. Where are the morals of YNet in lynching an innocent man. "Morals which allow people to act violently?" 10,000 people assembled peacefully, 10 got rowdy. "morals which allow husbands to hit their wives?" Wife-beating is far more common among secular Jews and Muslims than among haredim. "morals which allow MK's to steal government money? (a common tradition in Shas for example)" The amount of money "stolen" by Shas is POCKET CHANGE compared to the millions stolen by Olmert, Kadima and Labor. We won't mention the "moral upstanding values" of the democratic secular government that throws thousands of hard-working, law-abiding citizens out of their homes and turns their greenhouses over to the enemy to turn into terror training camps and Qassam launch pads. Move out of your glass house before you pitch your rocks.

Sometimes it can get a little rough and dicey here. But you did good. Those who don't believe in Hashem will ALWAYS spew out the most hurtful and hateful venom that they can muster. Why? Because it turns the light on and it shows how bare and naked they are before Hashem and his word. And that's ok. That's their choice. Iv'e read every single TB tonight and I think those that are secular progressive miss the whole point or meaning of just how vile the act of homosexuality is. In the B'resheet Hashem commanded that all plants and trees have within themselves seed that would produce a harvest exactly just like the plalnt or tree that it came from. And then within that harvest was another seed that would produce another harvest exactly like the plant that it came from and so on and so on. So the law of a seed producing exactly a duplicate of what it came from was established as a law that was to be followed forever. And when Hashem took center stage and created Ish from the ground and breathed into his nostrils until he became a living human(The sages tell us that he became a living speakin spirit just like G-D), Adonai also instructed them to multiply(or produce exactly another one just like them from the seed within him), that same law of reproduction went into effect forever. Why am I going over all of this? Because there are those in these TB that have said they are like this because of gentics. That Adonai made them that way. And we all know that if we plant a watermelon seed, we don't have to go out and check it every few days to make sure that red peppers aren't going to be the harvest that will come up. Why? Because Hashem has commanded that everything produce after it's own kind. Which brings me to my point that Hashem will never honor or bless the act of homosexuality. Have you noticed that after he created Ish and Isha that he never said" You know, I think I'll create another boytoy for man just incase he wants an alternative lifestyle and he just doesn't feel right around Isha anymore?! We must never stop declaring the Truth of what Hashem says . And you have done just that here tonight. It hurts me to see that in the holiest piece of real estate in the world that this vile parade is being taunted as "Hey, we've come a long way baby", so to speak. Especially in Yerushaliam(I call it the capital of the world). That said, I do not agree with some of the Haredi rabbis telling the police that they will be cursed with cancer if they show up for work and do the job they are being paid to do, and a job they have been called to do. Hashem is not in the business of making people sick. But we do find in the book of D'varim 28: 1-14, the terms of the blessing of the covenant, and 28:15 -69 the terms of the curse of the covenant. And then later in the next chapter Moshe tells us that this covenant was not only for those who were standing there, but also for those who would come after them. It is an eternal covenant. So while it pains me to see what is going on in your land as well as mine, I can take great comfort in knowing that Hashem will keep that covenant with me forever as long as I do what he say. And those that choose not to do what he says to do, well they have heaped judgement upon themselves. It's their choice. Our job is to try to tell them of this, it is not our job to threaten, or physically hurt them in any way though the flesh may be really wanting to act that way. But if we don't sound the alarm, sin will come in and set up house and run our cities, governments, churches, and our lives. And so my friend, you did good tonight. I thought I would just give you a word of encouragement. Keep up the good work. Shalom my friend, Shalom.

My brats all grown up already :- ) I am not a simpleton not that foolish nor gullible but a fulwitted person I am a very bad Jew and I don’t think I am religious too. Most of the time I do the exact opposite what the Rabbi says, but we are good friends. I am Yore ? Yes I think I am in this case of homosexuality issue. I have been reading the torah from the age of 10. I have also read the hotchpot of Braminic Sanskrit Sacred texts. I simply love the Torah and the Talmud. I am familiar with Acharei in Lev 18 of the Law. Yored ? Why not I am an old Yore. I have also looked into the Al – Surahs Cap 26 – 007-080 – confirmed with my muslim friends who are Islamic Scholars in Singapore and Malaysia. My conclusion is I view all homosexual sex as sinful. My Orthodox Jewish view is : homosexuality is A CHOICE ; SUCH CHOICES are deliberate deviance. Religious homosexual Jews are EQUALLY GUILTY of the SINFUL ABORMINATION Taking or making such CHOICE . I agree with Miriam, I will read the torah again and again till I reach my last day on this earth. My wife and my learned children too are scolding me . They seem to defend that there is two grounds to be strictly considered next time I open my mouth on this gay issue - a biological co - factor and psychological inclination it seems. And they further argued that the hotchpot of Judaic Classical Commentaries didn’t look into those co- factors. I am still with the view that although the Sages and Seers , the classical rabbis made no mention of the biological or psychological reasons, it does not in any way cause any doubt over the Law in Lev 18 as Miriam pointed it out rightfully. The seriousness of such abomination is clearly addressed in later part of the chapter- IMPOSING DEATH SENTENSE on HOMOSEXUALS . I suppose the Rabbinic’s kindly have set aside such sentences 2000 year ago. They left it to G-d and the Secular ROMAN LAW.. But such is not the case in the Arab Nations. No wonder you gays dare to hold such Parades in Israel and give all sort of reasons. One being DEMOCRATIC, BS Arguments ! However no Orthodox rabbinical body has advised changing current status quo of the Jewish Law. Orthodox groups hold that any change in law on this issue is absolutely impossible. I fully agree. And honestly I don’t understand HOW the biological or psychological own inclinations BY CHOICE could be given as a GO AHEAD to the HOMOSEXUALS. No provisions in the Halaka for will- full acts by choice which are deliberate deviance. The same rule of Law applies to Religious Homosexual Jews too. I hate the sexual perversion in them too but not the person. I believe that these gays /lesbians can come out of the abomination. I am no a great reader like most of you here, but I have explored the plethora of many mythologies, to cite one here is the Gilgamesh. My late father left behind a library full of books which consist of European and Eastern mystical lore’s. This includes the Dharmic Religions and there are many references to the HSex. The Code of Manu- Manu Smriti and Sushruta Samhita also I explored. The Kama Sutra a 4th century document also I ran through. I even read the Pali canon ! All these text only makes reference to the existence of the enuchs or hijras but these are homosexual orientations and sins which are SINFUL, so is sodomy Homosexuality is disordered and contrary to the natural law and sacred law of the Sefer TORAH. The only appropriate expression of sexuality is within the context of marriage, which by definition is permanent, procreative, heterosexual, and monogamous. see yeah around babe : - ) ~ he ehee hee... ben singapore

but you seem to be ignorant in the Torah and G-d's deeds. While science deals with hypothesis and theories and uncertainties, the Torah which is eternal deals with absolute truths. We all know that the field of science is forever changing. Theories of yesterday have proven erroneous and over time became outdated and obsolete. Modern scientists have acknowledge the accuracy of the Torah.

Do'nt you think this "lady" can't defend herself ?

Some are even liers , religious liers .

Bring your farm animals ? i have only seen one sort of animals , you know to whom i refer [ stone throwers and so on ] The world created in six days ? you are also living in the dark middle ages ? then they even believed the world is flat , poor people who believe this , i'm very sorry for you and hope you have'nt infected too much of your descendants with this illness .

Poor city , that's for sure . how does it come that the two poorest Jewish towns are those two , one with a majority , the second a great part , inhabitated by charidim ? Is that beautyful ? Poor , poor people , in both meanings of poor .

PLEASE ;- ) ~ ben singapore

She has been fed the hareidi line that only her peers are Jewish enough. Only her Rabbis are legitimate. And G-d's Army of people praying are more important than the military when it comes to protecting Israel. She believes because her "owner/husband" should get a salary for studying Torah and should not have to learn or work in a real job or business. What amazes me is that she uses a computer and the internet. According to some Hareidi sects that is not Kosher. Of course it is also not Kosher to wear red, short sleeves, shorts or anything "too tight." Perhaps she should be ostracized for the computer use. I will get a group together to curse her and then pray for her.

You wrote: "Modern scientists have acknowledge the accuracy of the Torah." Read "The Bible Unearthed" a book that summarizes what modern scientists know about the Torah. Much of the Torah has been proved by archeology to be fiction. As an example, Abraham is supposed to have used camels long before camels were domesticated for the purposes described. Abraham had his encounter with Abimelech at Gerar long before the time that scientists know that Gerar was founded. There are thousands of other examples.

the protest should get out of hand. have these haredi rabbis be haredi. they should fill up all the stereets of yerushalayim and instead of asking the yeshiva students to pray in the yeshivot they could ask them to pray in the streets while blocking this abomination. haredi are always accused of many things. why should a gay parade take place in yerushalayim and not elsewhere? sodom will be well suited.

Even if Gays and supporters are not happy, we can be happy in praying and knowing that change will occur even if it doesn't happen right away. Also we won't be praying alone but with people from different countries and religions, like we are all in the same room. We can pray for many things, such as for them and for us and for each other, for G-d's glory and the peace of Jerusalem, etc.