I contacted the official UMC.org site and inquired about this issue. They immediately e-mailed back the following: "The 2007 New England Annual Conference received a report from their Divestment Task Force that included recommendations of divestment from a list of companies. You can find the information on the their website at http://www.neumc.org/page.asp?TableName=oPages_6KF3UU&PKValue=178. The resolution and divestment recommendations are directed to New England United Methodist members and is not an official policy or statement of The United Methodist Church." I also heard back from friends at my old church in CT that they are NOT apart of this conference. So at least they are not committing this particular affront. This conference includes most of MA and VT, not CT. I'm not sure I feel much better about it however. Those concerned should access this site. And as well they should remember that when a church begins in a improper direction there are many within it's congregation that oppose it, such the Anglican, and Episcopal's and even produce web sites in apposition.

I'm a member in good standing of (Orthodox) Beit K'nesset (synagogue) Moreshet Avot here in Ra'anana. All of the essential documentation of my Orthodox standing as a Jew is available in the website below. Orthodox rabbis recognize me as a Jew. I suspect that the reason "John" Anonymous (fears to identify himself) goes ballistic is because he's probably the same person who was passing himself off as "Yohanan Ben-David," pretending to be a Netzarim himself while covertly trying to infiltrate a Khab"d synagogue in Tel Aviv. He's bitter because I informed the Khab"d rabbi about him. John lies and slanders Orthodox Jews. Christians, does John and Mike and similar goyim Christians like him -- claiming not to proselytize while secretly trying to infiltrate the Jewish community -- represent you? Speak up! It's essential we be able to disagree in our discussions because Jews DON'T agree that Christianity is valid and that's a fact you need to learn to deal with more accommodatingly. It is entirely unreasonable for Xns to presume that it's fine to promote Xy in this forum and then complain about "bashing" when Jews reject your Xn overtures giving facts, documentation and reasons why. Women are smart not to give their last names on line. But when men withhold their full names it's because their charlatans, frauds and phonies and trying to do something insidious that they don't want the world to identify them. My full name and details are in my website in the signature block below. PS: the most popular Israeli Jewish newspaper not publishing candlelighting times on Yom Shishi in its on-line counterpart is a disservice to Jewish readers and a disgrace to Israel. Even ha-Aretz publishes candlelighting times on Yom Shishi. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

86 i learned about his that from his unending self-promoting talkbacks. you know his schtick: "look at me! i'm a jew (never mind that a few hours ago i was gentile)" or "i should know because i was a backwoods hillbilly preacher." and, my favorite "i'm SO smart and i know more than everyone." some people have called him on his fraud. even they say his real birth name was cletus, or something like that, i forget (sorry, but i don't meticulously document everything like the strange genius does). 89 - was it you that discovered from his website that he claimed to be "chosen"? i guess if god can use a goy (balaam) or animal (donkey), who are we to question? after all, we mere humanoids are too stupid to comprehend these things.

#16, 19 & 22 are on the right track. Orthodox Halakhah must not be compromised -- but there is no justification for demanding that potential converts accept Beit Shamai Ultra-Orthodox extreme views. PS: the most popular Israeli Jewish newspaper not publishing candlelighting times on Yom Shishi in its on-line counterpart is a disservice to Jewish readers and a disgrace to Israel. Even ha-Aretz publishes candlelighting times on Yom Shishi. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

There is so much documentation in Tanakh, concealed since 135 CE by Christian Church reliance on LXX redactions and interpretations and claimed supersession of NT, that it took 2 books to cover the bare essentials. If you're really serious about wanting to know why Orthodox Judaism is right and Christianity is wrong, begin with the historical context by Oxford historian-scholar James Parkes: "The Conflict of the Church and the Synagogue. Read his book first. You'll be shocked at what you "know" wrong! (I was.) That will give you the background perspective to understand my books: "Who Are the Netzarim?" (WAN) and "Atonement In the Biblical 'New Covenant'" (ABNC). If you are serious enough to read them you will no longer be under your present ill-informed Christian misconception. PS: the most popular Israeli Jewish newspaper not publishing candlelighting times on Yom Shishi in its on-line counterpart is a disservice to Jewish readers and a disgrace to Israel. Even ha-Aretz publishes candlelighting times on Yom Shishi. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il ynet (4,000 char, title 60 char; Hbr type in regular RTL), 2007.06.29 Jewish Scene: Boim: Conversion laws too strict for immigrants

Yahn is a heretic because he is a Christian, AND he's a better Jew than you are because even though he's in error in a lot of ways at least he believes in the authority of Torah. That's better than you. Why don't you restore your family's tradition of passing down Torah to your descendents instead of continuing to shame your family with your misojudaic secularism? I'd much rather be justified in calling you Charles the Jew. PS: the most popular Israeli Jewish newspaper not publishing candlelighting times on Yom Shishi in its on-line counterpart is a disservice to Jewish readers and a disgrace to Israel. Even ha-Aretz publishes candlelighting times on Yom Shishi. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

"But when men withhold their full names it's because their charlatans, frauds and phonies and trying to do something insidious that they don't want the world to identify them." - that would be YOU, cletus, or whater your name REALLY is (gonna document THAT?). and since that comment is directed to me, who can blame me for wanting to keep people like YOU who obsess over me to the point of documenting what i wrote on talkbacks months before? stalkers tend to be obsessive personalities, so one has to be careful from the likes of such weird people out there. BTW you wrote the words 'christian' and 'christianity'. better go cleanse your soul and burn your keyboard. and BTW i'm secretly trying to infiltrate the jewish community?? you really should stop projecting your insecurities onto others, thinking that sane persons respond as the unstable. it seems your jewish israeli government has welcomed me with open arms as an openly-professing christian to be a citizen of this jewish state. they have documents where i openly declare to be a christian and reject any claim to be jewish (despite a jewish grandparent), all with the freedom to practice my christian faith here, just like you. so get over yourself. i am what i am, and proud of it - just ask anyone that remotely knows me or has read anything i write. and i didn't have to do a hocus-pocus identity change to be welcomed into this country.

You need to stop trying to trap people all the time. Because your MOTIVES will turn out to be different from your cause. People need allowance of breathing room (do I need to give references to what I am speaking on?). Don't force people to lie.

try to do good things and then bring people into idolatry through their version of the Gospel (escaping death in pagan firey torment of god of hades). Saving knowledge is a WAY OF LIFE. Not a escape god of hades get to heaven salvation system through magic prayers, blood and flesh, baths etc. Yeshua was supposed to put those pagan type myths to death. Yeshua was "reformed" in his thinking, but in some ways more strict then even Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai, who told his disciples that it wasn't the corpse that defiles a man nor special water that cleanses him, but G-ds DECREE. Why can't CHRISTIANS see that? Why do they try to get people back under bondage of their personal belief systems? G-d forgives man. He always has. Moses said it in Ex. 34:7.

as an ad hominem assualt on methodists, you've hit the mark. but as a position to be taken seriously, you are way off. the new england conference (and they will not be the first) voted to divest from companies profiting from the occupation. they did not divest from isarael. the difference is very significant. further, not every action of the israeli government should be applauded. a criticism of the israeli government or policies is not a criticism of jewish people. the idea that a government shouldn't occupy another land is somehow a criticism of a faith is absurd. is the israel government faultless? is there nothing that can be said about their policies that won't be called anti-semitic? jewish people are more than an israeli government. and a criticism of one is not a criticism of the other. the methodists have always been, and continue to be strong advocates for both the jewish faith and the state of israel. while jerry falwell was pronouncing that jews will go to hell, we were forcefully advocating for the legitimacy of the faith. if opposition to the occupation is anti-semitic, we join the UN, the majority of the jewish diaspora, maybe a majority of the israeli population, and the position of every peace effort ever attempted in the region. spare the slanderous treatment of another church. we would not allow such things to be said about you.

Yes, it say's on his web site that he was "chosen by G-d". I asked him many times to tell us how G-d chose him and he does the flip flop answer as usual. On his web site another person asked him about his validity as he asked many legitimate orthodox Jewish organizations about him and they all came to the same conclusion. I personally have asked legitimate orthodox Jewish organizations the same question as of him being kosher and their reply was the same. I have asked Orthodox rabbi's including Yemenite, orthodox, modern orthodox, kabbalists and not one say this should be followed. But since the three orthodox rabbi's that converted him, accepted him at the time, he uses the play on words to say that 'orthodox rabbi's' recognise him. He calls me 'St. John' and other names, like that would be what Ribi Yehoshua would say, a rabbi would say or an orthodox Jew would say. It is not slander asking for a straight forward question about his own posting. Evasion in this one is his specialties, so reverts to ad hominim slander, just as he likes to throw at everyone, you, Charles from Petach Tikvah, myself and others. His actions and words speak miles about his character without a person saying a thing, which is a discrace to haShem, Ribi Yehoshua, Torah and Jews. May G-d humble him.

Always has been always will be. Thats the big deception of the church (not really about Israel). You cannot never ever seperate Israel from the people. Of course there is a spiritual component of this.

Lets just stop this. I don't really like Paqids tact, and how he sometimes interacts. I could care less about his papers. But the fact is Pauline Christianity is not the orignal Yeshua movement (all mens spirits are the same). Nor is it typical Rabbincial Judaism as of today. Its a paganized Judaic mix of sorts. My words are not intended to offend, but it seems like between both groups (rabbinites and Christians) they constantly are in a power struggle over trying to squash or convert their association with this original group. I find alot of things offensive...the most important is the idolatry of blood and flesh (and Christians are not alone in this). I am sick of categories. It seems like with some, the only requirement to be a Jew is to not have anything to do with Yeshua. And to be a Christian, means you follow their paganized version of Judaism (Yeshua = animal replacment for sacrifice), complete with their own tithing systems to support their version of the assembly. OYE! The Gentiles did this; 1)Created replacement assembly later called the Church (2nd -3rd century). 2)Created New priesthood with instruments to get to heaven (emphsis of magical blood flesh, magic water baths etc.). 3)Created a new godman, out of Messiah, with magical properties in blood and flesh, to surplant older G-d (good G-d vs. mean G-d). 4)Created a New bible through selected letters and commentaries, as if divinely written, to surplant older one.

You know whom i'm talking about . This paqid has to have 21 Rabbis to declare him Jewish , he has to add Orthodox Israeli Jew after his name , WHY ? to try to convince himself , and innocent people , he's Jewish . Well let me tell you that a TRUE Jews does not need 21 Rabbis to be declared Jewish , a TRUE jew does not have an hidden personality behind his "being Jewish" as this paqid has , he is a missionary for jews for jesus . That's it , ugly person who holds copies of all tb's , so he can soil you and me . And holding copies shows only how unworthy this "person" is .

i asked him the same question, to give one name of a reputable rabbi that endorses him and he refused to answer. that says it all. he only argues within his prearranged paradigm, which he calls "logic" amusingly, and sets himself as self-appointed king of that domain, by virtue of his supposed pedigree. it is telling that he totally ignored my #69 post, as i knew he would. i know we (charles/you, me) may disagree on the matter of faith, but that is perfectly fine with me. that is normal and i, for one, enjoy learning from the discussions. poor paqid, i feel sorry for him sometimes. i know it must be hard to be so smart and so right amidst all of us dopes. but, then again, nobody said being the "chosen one" would be easy (an interesting self-fulfilling prophecy of his). from this goy to you: shabbat shalom!

Is this true of you? How can you do that?

We have all three a common point : we are honest in our writings , we do not hide anything . Not as this "non Kosher" guy . We have probably different ideas ? so what ? The world would be sad if everyone had the same . Now Mike , the Non Jew [ goy was always used in a pejorative way ] and John : Shabbat Shalom

Really enjoy your posts. I don't always agree with you, but you are always rational and fair-minded. As for Paqid, I went to his website once and found the whole thing almost unintelligible. It seemed like a bunch of talking in circles and I couldn't follow it. I really can't tell if he's Jewish or Christian or some sort of hybrid or maverick religion or what.

For those that want to know... Here is a portion of his Bio from his site Quote "paqid Yirmәyahu Ben-Dawid, né Clint Van Nest (1943.05.29), is a former Baptist minister who attended Hampden DuBose Academy. He is a member of Mensa and an American vet of the USAF Air Intelligence Agency (security clearance: Top Secret Crypto Codeword), serving in Germany and honorably discharged after a 4-year stint. Clint earned a B.Sc. from the University of Fla. (Gainesville) in 1968. He has done graduate work in computer science and worked as a Safety Engineer for a large insurance company in Canada and New England, as Personnel Director for a trucking and construction firm in Florida and as a Software Engineer entrepreneur in Israel. He made alivah to Israel under the Law of Return in 1985 and served in the Israel Defense Forces reserves and as a volunteer in the Israeli police reserves. His great- x6 grandfather, Pieter Pieterse Van Nest, immigrated to New Amsterdam — before there was a New York or United States — in 1647, just 25 years after the Mayflower......." see the rest of bio at netzarim.co.il/Museum/Sukkah10/Sukkah10.htm

religious & secular, jew & christian coming together on something we all can agree on. maybe he IS the "chosen" one, but not in the way he thought? shabbat shalom

Quote:Any nut that archives messages from talkbacks is to be treated very carefully ================== John I don't mind anyone archiving my post ...as long as they quote me correctly .... I've read many of his post ....He tends to talk down to other posters as if he is an elitist....and only his view is correct... I am sure many of his views are correct but he must understand G-d may also bring some of his views up short when he comes face to face with G-d ...as G-d will bring some of ours up short

to me or the other John, but peace to you guys too.

In the US many mainline, traditional churches (like the Methodists) have seen declines in attendance. This is because in many of the mainline churches The Bible is no longer considered a strong foundation for teaching. Some of the mainline church leaders & theologians have been questioning many things that were once considered foundational beliefs. Among these are the Virgin Birth, Resurrection of Christ, and even 'who' God is. One church even had a pastor who took part in pagan rituals outside the church. People who believe the Bible & wish to worship God have been leaving these churches in droves and we see the rise of many independent Evangelical non-denominational churches where the Bible is taught as truth. It should come as no surprise that the church groups who question the Bible and have aligned themselves with the loony left are against Israel. They are also against Evangelical Christians as well. Note: There are still some individual churches in the mainstream denominations which adhere to Bible truths. These churches want nothing to do with what their wacky leaders say & do. Evangelical Christians believe the Bible & support Israel. Only Churches who have aligned with the loony left & tossed aside fundamental Christian beliefs would be against Israel.

I concur with Your assesment ..... too bad that the leadership of the mainline churches doesn't get a clue

That's it what i'm talking about : it is not clear what this guy is , but certainly not a True Jew [ not because he converted ].

It is not about his past that we are talking . It's his today's behaviour that is , at least , questionable . And do'nt forget , it's his website , he , most probably , has written his bio .

That's sometimes a problem you can have . But this tb was directed to John , not John USA . All the best to you

You know, no significant numbers of people would care what Israel or any other country does if the boycotting technique hadn't been brought into play in the first place. Do some research and see exactly who started this game and this is extremely ironic. It's like calling for higher taxes and then screaming racism when the state revenue agency grows so big that it can easily trace your heretofore hidden tax dodge.

Granted he wrote the Bio ...but it says a lot on how he views himself... essentualy How smart he is (mensa & his Crypto Experiace) so he can impress others he has the intelectual capacity to debate with them... I am sure there are many good folks in the mensa organization ...but through past experiance with them ...I have found they have the tendacy to want to control the discussion and veiw anyone elses view as less than thiers.... which does relate to how paqid operates in these disscusions. For those that are unfamiliar with mensa ...it is an organization that is a support group for folks that have an High IQ or are gifted . It is a worthy organization ...but folks there need to remember to come out of the clouds and learn how to socialy operate in the real world of ordinary folk....That does not mean thier opinion does not matter ...for they do have a lot to contribute.

This all is not criticable . I say that he is not honest , he is hidding his true religious beliefs , it's something very unclear , doubdfull , i can't thrust this guy . He tell's us that 21 rabbis have certified he is Jewish . He is a convert , no problem with this , one Rabbi is enough , no need for 21 . A true Jew do'nt need to add "israeli orthodox jew" after his name . He holds copies of all the talck backs regarding his person , someone who is upright do'nt has the need to act so . This , and all his talkbacks give an impression of someone very suspicious . He can have a high IQ , this does not make him thrustfull . Sorry , english is only my third language , i hope you understood it .