In the Messianic age (however one wants to realize this), the "oink" will become a kosher animal. Pig (chazer) with the return (chazor).

Enemy of G-d & Am Yisroel was punished by death by the Awesome L-rd of Israel! Deviant gay, mentally ill creature who led ignorant yids astray, exterminated & squashed like a fly... for the whole world to see. Beware, sinners!

COPYCAT;typical American childish behaviour.

Anyone can call themselves anything.

I knew the man when he began his vocation in Windsor,oNTARIO. he had a great deal to do with the disintegration of the jewish population in a once thriving city,when asked,he refused to give up his s`micha,knowing full well it was his ticket to all the self loathing jews,who,rather than learn,preferred to demand that Jewry dummy down its practices...thus wine took his destructive prescriptions,turned them upside down and can lay claim to being like the go-al for the self-deluded....paul klein

veshem reshaim yirkav. Feh!

I mean, I think it's great that he was, but he would not have appreciated a posthumous closet, I suspect.

Do you realize that the US has had a democracy for around 150 years longer than you? PLEASE.

You write :"... probably temples are atheists ..". YAHWEH, the Supreme Lord, is the Supreme Controller. And there are many, many, many controllers (keep in mind : controllers in small letters) in this universe. But there is ONLY one Supreme Controller. It can NOT be otherwise !! WHEN people considers the many universal controllers (keep in mind : controllers in small letters) to be on an equal level with the Supreme Controller -- that's when those people ARE considered to be atheists. So, Rivkah, when you say that people in temples are atheists -- in MOST cases you will be right. NOT in all cases.

Id put money down he would tell u how sorry he is for spreading idiocy... im sure he meant well, but his views are not those of god, its the view of a person who feels guilty for not practicing and is looking for a way to feel good about himself

I wrote the 1st "KOSHER" pigstore. So you're saying that there are "70" KOSHER pigstores? Hah?

Although the attention amuses me, I chose to ignore the tb to which you refer, because there is a level of stupidity to which I prefer not to react. Who knows, that sort of psychosis might be contagious. Some people can't be content to quietly and simply be stupid. They have the irrepressible need to furnish proof of their condition to the whole world. :-)

No doubt that atheists do exist, and the ones I know don't blame god for anything. Religions maybe, but not god. Until I read a couple of things about the man subsequent to this article, I had never heard of him. I do, however, find the Core Principals of the source material refreshingly reasonable. I do disagree that rituals "make" a person one thing or the other. I could participate or perform rituals all day long, and it wouldn't necessarily make me a believer in whatever religions the source of those rituals are. I think you can agree that prostrating myself in the direction of Mecca and mouthing prayers doesn't make me a Muslim, any more than hauling somebody to the river and dunking them makes me or them a Baptist. Wouldn't it depend on a rabbi's beliefs as to whether or not he's an atheist? After all, someone who teaches, let's say, family law doesn't have to be a lawyer or have to have a family. He could simply be a professor with special training in that particular field. All of the foregoing is, of course, completely irrelevant as respects what someone else believes.

#39 :I wonder which history books you've been reading. #44 :I suppose,for you Americans,it's easier to click on the little blue words than to do what I suggested in the first place.Moreover,what kind of Jewish Humanism proposes that self-assertion is a symptom of psychosis (& out of curiosity,what's your therapist's name?)regards from the U.K.

the most committed Jew I know grew up active in his congregation and in her most productive life to date has done wonderful things for our people. May his memory be a blessing

Let's review. US democracy: 1789. --- UK in 1789: monarchy. UK in 1889: monarchy with commons having some importance. UK in 1911: first "Parliament Act" that finally gave the commons supremacy over the lords. ~ 120 years difference between US and UK in age of democracy. UK in 1949: second "Parliament Act" that removed ability to delay excessively the acts of the commons. House of Lords since late 1990s (I think) are mostly nonhereditary (finally). ~ 150 years difference.

You guys have become the nexus of terror in Europe--and you did it with eagerness. Please, Josephine, stop putting on airs. It makes you look silly. BTW, when I visted London last, I wanted to see some Shakespeare. I had to go way out to the Barbizon to see an underwhelming performance.

You write :"( A Rabbi) could simply be a professor with special training ...". A Rabbi is supposed to be a representative of Moses the Law Giver. As representative of Moses the Law Giver, the Rabbi is supposed to preach the teachings as given by Moses the Law Giver -- without ANY additions or subtractions. BTW the meaning of religion is to bring one closer to God, or Yahweh. Moses the Law Giver was chosen by Yahweh to be His representative. The Rabbi is NOT the representative of Yahweh -- the Rabbi is supposed to be the representative of Moses the Law Giver. BTW the representative of Yahweh, the Supreme Lord, is NOT chosen by people of this world. The representative of Yahweh is chosen by Yahweh, and Yahweh alone. So, Mrs. Hartley, simply repeating the words of Moses the Law Giver like a professor, with NO intention of being a representative of Moses the Law Giver -- the words of THAT professor will have NO potency and I repeat, NO potency whatsoever to bring his listeners closer to Yahweh, the Supreme Lord. You write :".. the (atheists) I know don't blame God for anything ". Than, those are honourable atheists. And I salute them for THAT.

His wasn't merely a denial of G-d. He denied the bases of Judaism as religion. He denied that anything beyond human effort resulted in in Yetziat Mitzrayim. How many prayers and holidays and customs resulted from this miracle alone? His life and passing does not merit even a mention in the Jewish media.

ever heard of the magna carta,english bill of rights(1689);usa democracy only @ Reconstruction etc. sorry about the shakespeare bit;u should've gone 2 stratford on avon,if u know where that is.N.B.who first directed you to Rabbi Wine's site?Hartley confesses that she hadn't heard of the man "subsequent to this article";therefore she must have have read my info to you,which was meant as a Humanistic thing to do for you;forget about the history bit :do you think that Hartley was "correct" in contacting you about me (malicious gossip)instead of contacting me;was this cowardice on Hartley's part,at least far from being Humanistic.I rest my case.Rule Britannia.(P.S.I hope Hartley reads this too)

I have this problem with the entire first paragraph of your tb, not counting the first 2 lines. #1 "Supposed to" doesn't mean will or does. #2 If a Rabbi is the final arbiter on the teachings of the law and since he's human, who checks on the correctness of the teachings of the Rabbi? #3 With the different degrees of Judaism, something simply doesn't add up, if 4 different Rabbis can interpret one thing or the other 4 different ways, even if it involves only minor details. From some of the bickering within just about all religions, some of the differences involve more than simple trivialities and so who is or isn't right? I honestly don't mean this as callous as it sounds, but either god knows/knew what he is/was saying and means/meant it, or he didn't, and then what's the use of any of it? Para. 2 Who said that god chose Moses? Moses? Don't X # of other religions claim the same thing for one of their leaders, kings, prophets, popes or whatever? Joseph Smith certainly did, and there are Mormons all over the place who believe him. You see, that's why I do not subscribe to any "religion." They all, more or less, claim the same thing. Throw in a Jesus here and who knows whom for Buddhism, and to me all of it would only make for one mixed up god, if I were to believe any of it. Do I believe in god? Most assuredly, yes. But the god I believe in had and has no need to "dictate" or piece together books that, before "the ink is dry," have to be interpreted in a different way every X # of years. After all, who when and why did someone take it on him/herself to say that all of a sudden god's word no longer applies with respect to e. g. stonings or polygamy? And once you start to adjust a little here to fit the times, a little there to fit a particular circumstance, where will it stop? My god has never dictated any books, and he doesn't "talk" to me. He gave me a conscience through which he lets me know in no uncertain terms when I'm about to pull a stunt that I shouldn't, and there is no room for interpretations or negotioations. There is only the absolute knowledge that there will be consequences with wich I had best be prepared to live or screwing up, anyway, I had best hope that god will show me mercy. I disagree with you with respect to para. 3. The potency of what is being conveyed depends on the communication skills of the conveyor. If the most learned and well-intentioned Rabbi/preacher/teacher under the sun puts a congregation to sleep with monotonous droning, nobody feels close to god. At the other extreme, there are Holy Roller preachers that can get a congregation so cranked up about god, it wouldn't be too much of a surprise if god came marching down the aisle any minute with platoons of angels right behind him. Whether or not what they believe is right or wrong, the Holy Rollers would feel much closer to god than someone who's been bored to tears for 30 minutes or more. When all is said and done, it's not necessarily what one does or doesn't believe, but how one lives up to what one believes, and I wouldn't have the gall to tell anyone what that should be. With my luck, it would have been the wrong thing for them, and I'd end up in a very bad place not just for my own doings, but for those of someone else, and I don't want any part of that.

The question was not which country first limited the power of the monarch (the US never had a monarch to limit), but whether the US's democracy was around 150 years older than UK's. And no, Reconstruction doesn't change anything, unless you want to say that there was never an Athenian democracy because it was always a a slave society. My underlying objective here (which you have helped make possible far better than you could have guessed) is to discourage Euros from infantile anti-Americanism and focus on the common enemy--which is plotting jihad at the mosque down the road. The US will not benefit in any way with an Islamic Europe. Incidentally, I note the irony of you dismissing "the Americans" while writing in (American) chat group English, on an American-designed browser hosted on a PC that was conceived and first build in America, running an operating system conceived and first built in America. If you have a problem with M. Hartley, I'm sure you and she can resolve it (or not) as the Western adults you both are--without putting down the oldest continuously functioning democratic republic that currently exists.

What did Moses ever do to you that you mock him by comparing him to some faigela?

Rabbi is the Hebrew for : MY Master [ standard Jewish Encyclopedia ] So if people wanted to call Mr Wine Rabbi , it's their right . He can be an atheist master . Why should only Orthodox Jews have the right to call their masters Rabbi ? Is there a copyright or so ?

actually the term is designated for those who have "smicha" or ordination from a rabbinic tribunal that itself has been ordained in an unbroken chain of smichot from biblical times..however, Conservative, Reform (frow which Wine has ordination) and Renewal Rabbis can all make that claim.... (just check who ordained the first Reform Rabbis)... so Orthodox monoplists are out of luck trying to assert sole claim to the title.

Atheism is no more Jewish than idolatry. His life like secular Judaism is a failure. It is no suprise he died in our enemies embrace as he lived his life as a enemy of the Jewish people. May his name be blotted out

You write :".. God knows what He is saying and means it ...". God's words is coming to us through Moses the Law Giver. The Jewish People have direct connection with Moses the Law Giver. Their connection with Moses the Law Giver is NOT dependant on Rabbis. Rabbis may come and Rabbis may go. But Moses the Law Giver will remain for a LONG time to come. BTW without connection with Moses the Law Giver -- the Jewish People can have NO connection with Yahweh, the Supreme Lord. It is NOT possible. It is impossible. BTW Yahweh is NOT cheap. You write :"Who said that God chose Moses ? Moses ? ". YES !! Moses the Law Giver said that Yahweh, the Supreme Lord, chose him to be His representative. All followers of the Torah and the Bible (i.e. the Jewish People and Christians) MUST accept this fact. IF not -- than there will be NO basis for the Jewish Religion and Christian Religion. You write :"Throw in a Jesus here ..". Regarding Lord Jesus Christ -- he is the representative of God (= Yahweh, the Supreme Lord). The Christians should know that they have DIRECT connection with Lord Jesus Christ. Direct connection means that they are direct disciples of Lord Jesus Christ. Without being a direct disciple of Lord Jesus Christ -- Christians will NEVER be able to understand Yahweh, the Supreme Lord. BTW the Pope is NOT a representative of God (= Yahweh, the Supreme Lord). Today you may have this Pope - tomorrow you may have that Pope. Popes may come and go. But Lord Jesus Christ will remain the deliverer of the Christians for all eternity. That's why, whatever the Pope may think or may do -- is of NO importance. The Christians should be loyal to Lord Jesus Christ -- and NOT to persons of this world.