being a jew joining the nazis or something close to it. . though there were some jews who did that mostly out of survival I suppose. . but it would definately be hard to be an arab asked to join the israeli army. yikes.

3 years of hard service (not the 9-5 variety) with call ups every year for 1 month. either that or expell them from israel. this article demonstrates again that they are a fifth column.

Isn't it wonderful to see such an effort to integrate into mainstream society? Such patriotism, such loyalty, such unabashed enthousiasm to contribute. I'm truly touched. Surely such efforts should be rewarded.

In a democracy all opinion, however it is manifested, is permitted. The lyrics printed are not inciteful or racist. Some of the Ghetto rap and Gangsta rap is far, far more offensive than this. It's mysogynistic, inciteful, gratuitous and anti establishment. Would you ban them? Would you ban the Punks from 20 / 30 years back who sung against the system and spat on the flag? No you wouldn't 'cos you hate Arabs simple as that.

If these citizens of Israel refuse to serve their country they should shut their mouths about how they're treated, or try living under Palestinian or Jordanian rule.

Why on earth should any Israeli Arab make an effort to "integrate into mainstream society"? You don't want them in your society, Israel has for years dispossed them of their property, their land, their rights. Israelis in general despise the Moslems in their midst, and yet you express surprise that a group of rappers (rap, being by nature a dissident museum medium) should be anti-establishment. Perhaps when you find an Israeli ARab rap group made up of middle-aged Yekkes from Vienna they'll sing lyrics you like. However, if you want citizens of Israel to sing only pioneer songs, mi yivneh et ha galil, etc, then stop stealing their land, chucking them in prison, firing tear gas at their legitimate protests and give them equal rights. Your sense of shock is totally disengenous and sick-making.

let them go drink water from a gazan toilet

should read: dissident musical medium

In general when reading your TB's I have not written back,knowing your hatred towards us,wrapped up in smart and deceiving words. Living in londistan must be confusing to obtain a objective point of view. It might be a good thing to start working at the ills of your community before budding into our affairs. Your arguments of oppression and so on are old,besides that if anyone knows about oppression it is you guys. Most of the problems we have now were created by the english and there racism. I know it must be hard for a good old englishman to see a jew being able to defend himself. Those poor pallies,believing me if we had some healthy leaders here,we realy would take care of the problem middle eastern way. Meanwhile just pretend that your snotty ways are better then anyones.

NO WELFARE! NO BENEFITS !

So what's your 'objective' point then? Or, as usual, do you prefer to insult rather than debate. Is it really possible to blame the English for the way Israel treats Palestinians? No it isn't is it. I live in the largest Jewish community outside of Israel. Within an eruv as it happens. So it hardly makes it 'Londonstan' does it? And we don't build walls around the Muslims. We prefer to respect them. Why don't you condemn the TBs that demand expulsion or hard labour for people who rap! In Jew Town, sorry I mean London, we let the rappers rap. Whatever they have to say

who pretend they are Yeshiva Bochurs. Its show time! I'm sick and tired of hearing every two bit rag head be he wearing a towel or a Yamulka complaining about this or that. Either you serve or there is no friggin Welfare for you. Damn ,when will Israel stop being such a bunch of suck ups to these dreck?

Your whole post is a piece of garbage. Believe or not there are some anti-racist Jews in the world - myself being one of them - people who do not accept the foul-stinking racism of various of the writers here, yourself included, and people who would not dream of chucking another nation out of their homes (as was done to the Jews in Europe). Thus, your thesis, about my being a "good old englishman unable to see a jew being able to defent himself" is erroneous. It is people like you who have taken the tradition of liberal (i.e. tolerant) Judaism and perverted it and corrupted it to suit your criminal enterprise of stealing homes, land and murdering non-Jews willy-nilly. May your home also one day be seeded with cluster bombs, as your compatriots have done in Lebanon. May I just add, that it is with an extreme feeling of disgust and distaste that I even communicate with someone who lives in "Judea" - i.e. at the expense of other people, on other people's land and most possibly in their stolen homes. Now I'm off to chunder. Zei ungezint.

The fact that the minority in Israel CAN released bad rap songs like this shows why israel is the beacon in the Middle east. Could they have done the same in Egypt, Syria, saudi Arabia? Sure, but not without being beaten and thrown in jail. Isreal has gay parades, rapping arabs and real freedom - something that th rest of region doesn't care to learn about.

so 'Those poor pallies,believing me if we had some healthy leaders here,we realy would take care of the problem middle eastern way, what would you do? Exterminate them? put them in camps? (sorry they already are in camps) ethnically cleanse them? What enlightened method would your 'healthy leaders' use?

In a democracy, not all opinion, regardless of its manifestation, is permitted. Limitations on freedom of speech in most democracies include prohibition of slander and libel. To publish the words: "National service will take me backwards / Will put me in a tank to threaten my grandfather / Will put on me on the bulldozer which destroyed my heritage" is to give voice to a historical and logical fallacy that is both slanderous towards the State of Israel and Israelis and inciteful against the men in uniform who protect their right to freedom of speech. As regards banning them, I have to say that i agree with you. However, my opinion for letting them run their mouths has nothing to do with freedom of speech as it does to do with exposing the logical and historical fallacies used to undermine Israel's existence. By the way, Richard, your posts have been repeatedly exposed as biased and based on logical and historical fallacy as well. Why do you continue to post here when your credibility amounts to absolutely zero? I challenge you to answer this question.

Hey, Richard - I don't hate Arabs. Actually, having lived among them most of my life, I probably like them better than you do. Perhaps, you like them in the abstract while I actually know them personally. To you, they're some kind of liberal cause, to be defended on principle. But, you know what? You are treating them with a total lack of respect. Excusing bad behavior, removing responsibility, not confronting their nastier beliefs, is not the mark of a friend. But I will go further - what you don't like about my talkbacks is that behind my English prose is a very Middle-Eastern way of thinking. I don't care about national service - it's just a project by mistaken liberals to try & integrate Israeli Arabs into the society at large. As such, it's doomed to fail anyway. I'm not interested in integrating anyone against their will. They want to be who they want to be - but that also means they don't belong in the same political entity as we do. And, like any typical Middle-Easterner, I treat my enemies like enemies. That's how they see us & that's how I see them. The only difference, is that they hate us while I don't hate them - but in my own self-interest, they have to be dealt with nonetheless.

ROFLMAO!! You never fail to outdo yourself, tall an order as that may be. If you're Jewish I'm the ayatollah frickin' khomeini! Maybe you're nuterei karta, but that doesn't count - they're not really jews, merely nazis in peyyus. As for your throwing around of phrases such as "your whole post is a piece of garbage" and "the foul-stinking racism of various of the writers here", these obvious (and very arab-esque) projections as ever expose your true identity and true agenda, and are an insult to the intelligence of those of us to whom you refer. You might as well point to us and call us all British - same effect. Finally, your continued attempts to throw up revisionisms and outright lies as facts, then throw your hands in the air and say "wah wah wah, nobody here wants to debate me!" are profoundly feeble and imbecilic. Don't believe me? Try going to an astronomy website and say "the earth is flat and is the center of the universe. These are undeniable truths. Now, who wants to debate?" I suspect you'll find much the same response. I suggest you seek mental help. Seriously.

To people outside of Israel this seems like a concerned upright stance. What is missing is the reality of the arab existence inside Israel and stark contrast of that reality to what is published in most media outlets. This is a class of people demanding and getting all rights without reciprocity on their part. The fantasy world of subservient arabs to Jewish dominance exists only in the media and arab speeches

What is their alternative? Certainly not medicine, law, or charity...

Your reply proved my point. Your are filled with hate and you think that you are morally superior. But behind your so-called arguments you are still a bunch of no goods living in londistan. You have no clue and are brainwashed by the superior BBC and its false reporting. Meanwhile I will enjoy another day in the holyland,you loosers.

Richard, Since when is London the largest Jewish community outside Israel? Do you know how racist it sounds when you call london.. Jew Town.?? it shows up what kind of thinking you have and makes me ashamed to live in the same city as you. Also, check the net before saying London is the largest Jewish community, perhaps you should think of America, Canada, France, Russia.... London is not that big and frankly Jews are moving out because of your mates the arabs moving in.

Tamer Nafer family is from syria so why is he talking about being a local arab....if the druzim and chirkassin and some bedu serve then let them serve too!!!

Deport all disloyal arabs from Israel who don't wish to serve.Problem solved.

First off Richard, if it were one rap song by some obscure group or mainstream rap advocating dodging of national service, that's one thing (as you can see, their freedom of speech is not in question by any power here- and DAM actually received their training and support from TACT, an Israeli rap group with which they split and betrayed). But there are instances where Arab MKs are complaining of being "Israelified" by the proposal that they do national service. This isn't about rap groups, this is about Arab political representatives flatly rejecting Israel's attempts to integrate them to society (with national service comes respect and veteran's benefits that make life a LOT easier in Israel- and Jewish Israelis have to go through it too, so racism is not an issue) and then hypocritically claiming that Israel discriminates against them and doesn't accept or integrate them. No one is saying they have no right to make this rap, rather by making it, they prove many Israeli Arabs are a fifth column, not loyal to the state, leeching off Israeli tax money via welfare payments etc while being disloyal and supporting enemies. Of course this doesn't hold true for all Israeli Arabs (probably not even the majority either) but the principle of most talkbacks here is that for the ones that ARE disloyal, they should live under the PA rather than destroy Israel from the inside (I don't even agree with that, but I certainly believe that this rap only worsens the situation). English guy, you ask why should an Arab make an effort to integrate into Israeli society if they are met with racism? Maybe because, uh.......oh yeah, the reason they are detested in the first place is because they are seen as disloyal and unwilling to integrate themselves into Israeli society. Listen, I've lived in Israel for great portions of my life- I've worked alongside Arabs in Israeli manual part-time jobs, and they didn't have hatred and disrespect for national service that some others do, and for that reason they didn't have to deal with any distrust, lower wages, or anything like that. When I volunteered at Tel Aviv U there were Arabs who were politically on the left and wanted two states, but they weren't hateful freaks who wanted Israel, the country supplying them with educaiton, destroyed. They never were the target for any racial insults or the like. In surrounding countries disloyalty can mean automatic execution, but I don't see you lifting a finger against those policies. Face it, you can complain from London but unless you've actually been to the Middle East all your "anti-racist" defense is worthless. On top of that, Israeli Arabs are not the ones with land being stolen, chucked in prison (except when they actually commit a crime, like killing security guards for instance), nor do they engage in violent protests that result in tear gassing. Israeli Arab protests are usually over train stations being misnamed and other random incidents and they are given attention and no suppression. Even when the Bedouins "protested" an antenna in their town by setting fire to some Jewish home, and the police reacted in light force, there was a probe and investigation. You're confusing Israeli Arabs with Palestinians in the territories. The former have equal rights in theory but practically the reason for discrimination is, as I said before, lack of veteran's benefits and the respect that comes with it. Just recently there was an article of thousands of Palestinians who wanted Israeli citizenship so they can live as Israeli citizens rather than under the PA if Annapolis is a success. And you're going to tell me Israel is horribly racist against its minorities? And other articles where Arabs attack Jews who dodge army service calling them cowardly, to the respect and applause of many of the talkbackers here and Israelis too at their loyalty? You will just ignore that so your point of view is satiated with no evidence?

Richard, back to you, I've been to London, and I was actually attacked by a gang of 3 people because I was wearing a Kippah. So don't give me BS about London being a wonderful "Jewtown" utopia. People like you make me so glad to hear of aliyah of British Jews. I hope all the Jews leave Britain for Israel, or heck even the USA. Just out of your hypocritical, ignorant grasp. You and English guy can sure act high and mighty when you're born far from the places you criticize. I've seen you two react with as much disgust and vitriolic words when Britain's dark history is discussed. And your info is based on internet readings, rather than visits and living in the region. Invicta, the camps were set up by Arab states, which for 60 years (who heard of 60 year-long refugees?) exploited them so they can live in the dream world of "returning to their land" when all such a dream does is cause conflict. It's the same with expansionist Jewish settlers. History cannot be progressed for one side or reversed for the other. Israel cannot expand to other people's territory, and refugees can't return to Israel. Hundreds of thousands of Arab Jews were removed in the same manner as the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians and the former were resettled. They can't return to Iraq, Syria, or wherever- European Jews can't return to Germany; history CANNOT be reversed. The camps are a humanitarian nightmare created by Arab governments as a propaganda tool.

I've argued for the last seven years or so for a new social contract, an understanding of rights and obligations, applicable to all citizens in Israel. It's clear that there's no consensus for a "no service, no support" paradigm, so let's consider something not so drastic. There IS a consensus that service should be recognized and rewarded, so we should build on that. Those who serve can be recognized by, for example, preferential access to university slots and student stipends, hiring preferences, discount home loans, etc. These are deemed "veterans benefits" in the US and are well accepted. They can be tailored in the Israeli context according to length of service, associated risk, criticality, etc. This completely undermines the "discrimination" charge, as all who honorably serve are granted the mandated benefits. Haredim who want to sit and study, Arabs who want nothing to do with the state, waive any claim on such benefits.

If only you had the same standards for the OTHER fifth column. You know who I'm talking about. :)