is a man who does not provide for his family really a man? how shocking and embarrassing. but hey, you can always blame "the russians" and their pork. and intermarriage, too. perhaps the reform movement??

I would suggest you watch this, you just might learn something about what hard work is all about. http://www.iitvnews.com/media/15/Talpiot_Commerce/

There was certainly one religious Jewish Nobel prize , maybe one or two others . They were at all not religious . Maybe it was the generation long encouraging studies that had this great result , but certainly not the religion in itself . By only studying , those people do not contribute at all to the country , and live for most of them in poverty

Obviouslly someone is paying the bills. There must be a concensus here that studying Torah is good for the state. For those that disagree, simply don't study Torah in protest.

This article is a poor excuse for the parasite mentality that has evolved over the centuries within our religion and is in contradiction to various rabbinical sources including the Rambam who said that the World to come is open only to those who work AND study Torah.

Throughout our history, our greatest scholars also had paying jobs (ie...Rambam). This current practice of schnorring off the taxpayers to support fulltime "students" has only succeeded in making the haredim resented by the average Israeli.

The Haredim do not represent any version of authentic Judaism. They are becoming a bizarre sect unconnected to the majority of Jews. Nothing in Jewish teaching requires a Haredi life-style. Nothing in Jewish teaching says a man cannot work for a living. Nothing in Jewish teaching says you cannot serve in the army. And there is certainly nothing in Jewish teaching that prohibits secular knowledge like mathematics, physics, medicine, chemistry, etc. etc. Quite the contrary, great Torah scholars of past ages were also physicians, mathematicians, & scientists. I think the challenge facing Israeli society (one of many) is how to re-integrate Haredim into general society, to live normal productive lives as well as contribute to the welfare of the country.

Conscensus? You must mean there is a weak political system that allows Haredi parties to strangle the state to continue funding their studies. I have no problem with you studying torah, I have a problem with me paying for it.

there is no connection! Every one of the nobel prize winners had a paid job!

nothing more than spin to cover up reality. The religious jews need to understand one simple thing... they are not any better than secular jews. If that is acknowledged than there is no excuse for subsisting of the sacrifices of others. The rosy picture painted by the good rabbi in this article is ridiculous. Students for life who cannot support their families or serve their country... give me a break.

It doesn't take much to see the value they bring to us all. Remember, that for every finger you point at someone else, three are pointing back at you.

Ethics of our fathers says "You should not make the Torah into an axe to dig with". This line is generally interpreted to mean that one should not exploit the Torah to for personal gain implying one that one should have a job and pursue learning in addition to this. The use of axe to dig suggests that it might not be the appropriate tool with and that the Judaism should not be exploited by those who "learn" in Yeshivot and nothing else that contributes to society. "However, Maimonides painfully observes that the evil here may be much more pernicious. Not only is one who considers the Torah a "spade" personally misusing his Torah knowledge, he is lowering the Torah and the Torah scholar in the eyes of the masses. " Rashi in addition to heading the Yeshiva was head of the Court making rulings and writing Responsa. Rambam was a doctor and philosopher. Severa; Rabbis in the Mishna are referred to by their professions. There is nothing wrong with honest work being balanced study of Torah. Anything else desecrates the Torah and renders the learning useless if not implemented into daily life.

He correctly recognizes the cost associated with the life of full-time learning in engendering poverty, and that not all are cut out for such a life. But to claim that this approach to learning is why Jews have been awarded 159 Nobel Prizes misses the point. The vast majority of those are/were non-learned in Jewish texts, and non-observant of Jewish tradition. The exceptional few, like Dr. Aumann and S Y Agnon, combined Torah with Derekh Eretz. Those whose minds are sharpened by Talmudic study *can* become great lawyers or scientists, but only if they open up to that world. Nor does he recognize the bitter resentment this lifestyle inspires among the rest of the populace who shoulder the burden of defending the nation against its enemies, and pay the taxes which fund their welfare. This resentment will only increase as haredi numbers increase. Lastly, to Etoile in Montreal, your video only demonstrates that haredi *women* are working hard, and are productive, but only because their husbands are not.

...you are absolutely right when saying that consecrating one's life to jewish learning is a great and noble endavour. But who's paying for it is the real question ! Our Yeshivot and Kollelim in Americas are financed by private donors who chose to give this money as a mitzva. In Israel, they are financed with public taxes of a secular state paid mainly by secular people. This does give these citizens the right to contest the fact that a growing part of the population is turning to a parasite class with their taxes. I am religious, I have even been sudying part-time in a canadian kollel and I still consider the present israeli situation as totally abusive. Haredim of Israel are shnorering a whole state and thus creating secular hate for religious people.

My son who recently returned to Canada was a student at one of the top litvach yeshivas in Israel. Soon after his 19'th birthday my son decided to return to Canada in order to pursue secular and vocational studies in Canada. The fact he was in Yeshiva has truly made him exceptional in all manner of studies. In a one period he was able to complete 5 years of secular studies including the study of French, thus earning him a High School leaving certificate. That is a fact. It may just be that the Yeshiva studies program makes the kids that much smarter. So before you all go gaga and want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, remember this... Haredi kids in Europe were able to read and write long before anyone else. Those kids happened to be our fathers, mothers, grandfathers and grandmothers. The fact is Torah education is a brain builder. Witness what is happening today in the western world as to education. It is a disaster. Torah education works.

Only one sentence is devoted to the heart of the issue between Secular Israelis and the haredim. "In addition the fact that the Israeli government has to support these families, who for the most part do not go to the army, causes social strife with secular Israeli Jews." Of course this causes social strife with Secular Israelis. The fact that Haredim spend almost all of their time studying in a Yeshiva or Kollel and don't work (and therefore dont pay taxes) and don't go to the Army is a huge problem. You have a huge sector of society which is leeching off of the government and the hard earned tax money from everyone else and give nothing back. I am not trying to deride studying in a Yeshiva or Kollel, if people want to do that, it is there choice, but why should I have to pay for them?

This article is simply a play on words - the majority of haredim are unemployed accrding to the normal, accepted form of the word - the fact that they have activities (learning) that fill their day does not change the fact that they do not hold a job, do not earn a salary and do not support their families. They depend on everyone else to support their parasitic lifestyle. If they were to live like the old yishuv did and depend on chaluka then people who wanted to would give money to support them - but that is not the case. They should look to gedolim like RAbbi Akiva, the Chafetz Chaim and others to see that it is right to get a job, earn a living and there will still be plenty of time for study. What we have, as Rabbi Brackman points out, is that everyone spends all their time studying - including those for whom it is not appropriate - this is the not what the Torah wants, not what our religion demands of us and not what is good for Am Yisrael. The time is long past for them to realize that what is right is for them to get jobs, go to the army, and carry their fair share of responsibilities and not continue to be parasites living off the work of others.

Lets face the facts folks. These people dont work, dont pay taxes, dont go to the army, yet fight nail and tooth for every sheckel from the system while denying other people their freedom and democracy. Get a job or shut up. As i for one am not paying for your lifestyle.

There are of course Haredi people who work , women as we have seen in this video . You have to know that the poorest Jewish towns here are those two with a vast quantity of charidim . That says everything

In the US, the average age that an orthodox man spends in yeshivah full time is 24. By that time they are often married. They go out to study in a university, law school or work, sometimes in the family business.The yeshivah in Baltimore, Maryland, Ner Israel, has agreements with several universities so that their students can take college courses part time. I know several rabbis who work in other professions and teach Torah in the community in the evenings.

are you telling me that you cheat on your taxes or are you unemployed?

studies.......... Why can't they study in the evening AFTER THEY COME HOME FROM WORK???????!!!!!!!!! They are lazy good for nothing slobs.

The great rabbi's haredi men study all had jobs. Akiva was a cobbler. Maimonides was a physician. Perhaps they should follow their example.

Ther is no justification. This article like so much the rabbis do is another excuse making attempt at covering the truth. Torah exposes ther truth. "Six days you shall work and on the seventh you shall rest" If G-d and Moses only wanted to assure Shabbat was observred it would on state "Six days you can do what you want and on the seventh day you shall rest." It doesn't! How can one give offerings if they are not prospering. Bereishis (Genesis) 2:15 Hashem G-d took the man and placed him in The Garden of Eden to work it and guard it. Later G-d created a woman to help him (not to do it all herself). So it is a sin not to work. All this studying of added words to Torah does is make Israel men ineffective and cursed because they have lost the real Torah in fabrications and false interpretations. Devareem 11:32 You shall be careful to perform all the decrees and ordinances that I present before you TODAY. Devareem 12:1 THESE are the decrees....(and it continues to spell them out. Devreem 13:1 The entire word that I command you, that you shall observe to do, you shall NOT add to it and you shall NOT subtract from it. Friars get a clue. You have been had by cultists who have brought magic into the tents of Jaacob. Individuals dressed like Christians not mentioned in Torah. Bmidbar (Numbers) Baalam-Baalak 23:7 "Come curse Jaacob for me"..."How can I curse G-d has not cursed" 23:21 "He percieved no iniquity in Jaacob and saw no perversity in Israel."....23:23 for their is no divination in Jaacob and no socery in Israel. So what would anyone do if they want to curse Israel. Like Moab did: 25:1 Corrupt Israel so G-d will not protect her. Like Babylon did when they kidnapped our people to seduce them with trickery and magic. Why do they set tables up for tephilin and hand out the false so called "G-d commanded" candles when people are violating Shabbat? Did a prophet do a sign or wonder, as required by Torah, so that we know the Shabat candle law was given by G-d and not some man willfully speaking? Did anyone think to require this? Should they not be more concerned with Shabbat? Does Israel feel weakened as their men spend hours studying chet additions? What does this prove to Hashem? Would not these items cause G-d to not protect us. What history since the rabbis appeared is certain? To me its shows no one (accept maybe G-d and a small group of people) is guarding the true laws nor fending for Israel and Torah.

Apparently there is a great desire for them, because they keep publishing this rage-bait.

That Hardeim don't work is a sin. Those few who are worthy of study full time should do so, but that's probably about 10%, not 70%. For our source, we need look no further than Pirkei Avot: Rabban Gamaliel the son of Rabbi Judah the Prince said: Great is study of the Torah when combined with a worldly occupation, for toil in them both puts sin out of mind. All study of the Torah which is not supplemented by work is destined to prove futile and causes sin. Let all who occupy themselves with communal affairs do so for Heaven's sake, for then the merit of their fathers sustains them and their righteousness endures forever. And as for you, G-d will then say: I count you worthy of great reward as if you had done it all yourselves.

Tens of thousands of families are making an enormous sacrifice, as their fathers and husbands learn Torah and become teachers of Torah, to carry on the traditions and renew the glory that once was. While I am not suprised that this young fellow from Lubavitch would criticize this, I would respectfully suggest that anyone who thinks this is a cop out spend one full week studying anything for 18 hours straight, let alone the Talmud.

their govt. Thats one reason why you cant get rid of the jokers that are currently running this country into the ground. The other reason is the deals that "your" representative made to prop up the govt. Yes in fact, whereever you are holding in the political spectrum there are representatives who are feeding at the trough while the country burns to the ground. So dont complain about the few shekels the charaidim are taking, go ask your own representative to leave the govt......

chance to defend themselves. Most of the people who (whom?) this article is attacking dont read this newspaper, so they cant even defend themselves in the talk backs. You can do better than that, YNET!!!!!