Jewish Scene
Rabbi urges religious youths to refuse orders
Kobi Nahshoni
Published: 28.11.07, 14:16
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1. settlements
zichron   (11.28.07)
there is no need to leave settlements since a land swap with iran would solve world hate . the gaza palestinians who are for hamas could defend the iranian border from the impoverished wahabbi and baath party torturerers and get good properties too .
2. Just hope that this time it won't be as easy as Gush Katif
Norman   (11.28.07)
In fact thwe evil Gov't will fall before one inch of territory is given to our enemy.
3. Rabbi Aharon Trop belongs in Prison
Simon ,   TA Israel   (11.28.07)
Who does he think he is? This man should be behind bars. He talks of Democracy but obviously dosnet know the meaning of the word. The destruction of the state of Israel will come from within not from external enemies. He is encouraging civil disobedience and is a traitor. We should be thankfull to the IDF for protecting us instead Rabbi Aharon Trop tries to destroy it.
4. I simply cannot fulfill the order, it is beyond my capabilit
LEE ,   NY, USA   (11.28.07)
There is no need to use the term "refusal". A soldier is not obligated to fulfill an order which is impossible to carry out. If I were instructed to lift a building with my arms I would declare that such a thing is physically impossible and that I simply cannot do it. Such is the case with evicting a Jew, it is physically beyond my capabilities as a Jew. There is no moral question either. A soldier is taught that he does not have to follow illegal orders. The IDF was formed to protect the country's civilians. If it is turned into a tool against those that are meant to be protected by it, then any such order is illegal and must not be fulfilled. Lastly, a soldier's religious practices must be tolerated and respected and just as a soldier cannot be forced to perform non-vital work on the Shabbat, so he cannot be forced to oppress his fellow Jew. On all grounds, a loyal Jewish soldier MUST avoid participating in any in any future eviction.
5. Why so clandestinely?
Saneity ,   Tel Aviv   (11.28.07)
Why doesn't tis prick openly call for ivil war? They've got the weaponry ayway! Ah, waiit!!! Right. He's a Tzadik. He's allowed to disobey law and order. Ptui!!!!
6. The hysterical behaviour of Rabbis will backfire on them
Sam ,   Canada   (11.28.07)
The Rabbis should calm down. The gap between Palestinians and Israel on the core issues is so wide that there is little chance of settlement. However, if the Rabbis are so difficult, the government will think twice about letting in large numbers of new settlers in the West Bank. Settlers know the deal before they enter the West Bank. In the unlikely event of a deal, they will have to cooperate, like it or not.
7. west bank rabbis are 5th column
Rami ,   Nazareth, Israel   (11.28.07)
8. THIS RABBI IS RIGHT. THE ISRAELI PEOPLE IS AGAINST OLMERT
Eli   (11.28.07)
9. lawbreakers
Michael ,   Haifa   (11.28.07)
If they want to break the law of the land,which is not yet their halachik law, they should enjoy their freedom of civil disobedience in prison
10. AWOL PLEASE ! IDF REFUSE ORDERS !
ben ,   singapore   (11.28.07)
Another lesson on Earth that cuts to the soul of the Jewish people as deeply as Jerusalem is Ancient “Zion” - conquered by King David 3,000 years ago and the site of the two holy Temples – continues to serve as the emotional and spiritual home for the Jewish people. NOW ANOTHER LESSON is EVACUVATION your oWN FROM YOUR OWN HOME ! Learn from mistakes and dont do more mistakes !
11. komemeyut
peter ,   amsterdam NL   (11.28.07)
The Hebrew word means 'rebuilding, restoring'(as well as 'arousing resentment, outrage) as far as I can gather from my dictionary. I suppose it's one of the Yesha organisations for a 'greater Israel' but I can't verify that. At least they are aware of the rift between the state/army/majority of the population and the national religious movement, but their dual strategy of refusal and education can't succeed without any democratic legitimacy, let alone a moral imperitive that is broadly shared. Jewish law is open to interpretation, so Rav Trop will have to argue his case convincingly. Calling for insubordination of soldiers isn't a good start because it's divisive.
12. Drop Trop!
Mark ,   Tel Aviv   (11.28.07)
13. Straight mind vs. warped mind
Talula ,   Israel   (11.28.07)
This Lunatic should be put in a military prison for incitement. Loud mouthed Rabbis should not be above the law.
14. All right, losers: DO IT!!!
Secular Eagle   (11.28.07)
That way we'll know once and for all who the traitors in our midst are. The rest of us will never forgive you tearing Israel asunder and you will be forever ostracized. If you are in the Army to serve an ideology and vacuous men, rather than your people and country, then you shouldn't be in that Army (or country) to begin with. The days of the settlements are numbered...LIVE WITH IT!!!
15. Religion is different from politics !
Hiram ,   Paris   (11.28.07)
As i have mentioned here many times, being ultra-religious does not make one necessarily enlighted and intelligent. Religion is one thing , politics and state affairs is a different issue. Calling troops to go AWOL is certainly a crime, especially when it comes from so called " moral authorities " . I believe to the contrary that everyone , religious or not , should serve the country which means follow the decisions eventually taken in Annapolis. Jews and Arabs have no choice but share the land. NO CHOICE.
16. Lock his ass up - the people of Israel....
Andy ,   ramat hasharon   (11.28.07)
are ready to end this conflict with the Palestinians. And this is treason.
17. LOL Rami 7
Korem ,   New York, USA   (11.28.07)
Ok that was a good one. No to your fundies and no to our fundies, that's my motto. No to right of return, no to avoiding territorial concessions. Thus both extremes are unhappy.
18. A DivineGift
Joe ,   iSRAEL   (11.28.07)
Dear Rabbi Trop et al, Chazal tell us: O wise men, be careful of what you utter! An English poet, put it more bluntly. "Oh would some power the gift give us to see ourselves as others see us. it would from many a folly free us and foolish notion. " Robert Burns, (1769-1796)
19. perfect. done!
ys ,   israel   (11.28.07)
20. Instead of evicting Jews ...
Terry ,   Eilat, Israel   (11.28.07)
The army should evict the Knesset. And I am completely secular but the rabbi is right on this one. The safety of the country is more important than the crooks in the Knesset.
21. WE MUST ALL TAKE TO THE STREETS AND BRING DOWN THIS GOV'T
Joseph P. ,   Jerusalem   (11.28.07)
Olmert is not the boss of this country and cannot do what he and his gangsters please.
22. GOOD !!!
MK   (11.28.07)
I live in the Gola because I trully believe that the Jews are lousy with anything concerning statesmenship. They still have a tribal mentality, which makes any co-existence virtually imposible. In addition, the Jewish mentality has been tainted by decades of exile. Non - retaliation and trying to appease the adversary are very much part of this mentality. This is why I was REALLY surprised by the Rabbi's statement. All I can say s that I hope his followers do exactly as he suggests and FIGHT BACK !!! Hey, if they save the (nonexisting) jewish honor, I will even concider making aliya...
23. All of you naysayers are clueless and fearful
sgt psd off ,   Israel   (11.28.07)
Just move aside and let those who KNOW and are fearless of man - fearful of only God to do what they must.
24. Hey Lee #4, things pretty rosy there in NYC? blah blah
Shuki   (11.28.07)
25. #13 Shlomo Hamelch (King Solomon) the smartest man ever,said
Joseph P. ,   Jerusalem   (11.28.07)
(Ecclesiastes 10:2) "A wise man's mind tends to his right, while a fool's mind tends to his left." The rational Right and distorted Left fit this saying perfectly.
26. Olmert and his political friends have kidnapped the IDF from
Avi ,   New York, NY   (11.28.07)
from the people and you have a problem with them trying to go back to their rightful owners?
27. #3 Do YOU know the meaning of Democracy?
Joseph P. ,   Jerusalem   (11.28.07)
Can YOU prove that Israel is a Democracy? A prime minister who was NOT ELECTED BY THE MAJORITY of the people and does whatever he wants, is democracy? Olmert was never elected personally. Is this democracy? His party had a few more votes than the others (30%) thus they got the control. But there was never a majority of the country who wanted him. Is this democracy? A self-elected corrupt High Court is democracy? A government who doesn't give a hoot about the opinion of most of its citizens is democracy? Yes, a majority of Israel is against his giving away territory. If you claim that he was elected by the majority, read the above paragraph again. It's only because of the coalition that he's in power and not because of any majority. The majority want to see him go. THERE WAS NO AND IS NO DEMOCRACY IN ISRAEL. Go sell your democracy babkess to some fool but not to sane people.
28. NO removal of Jews.
yael ,   Israel   (11.28.07)
What the He**! Didn't we learn anything from Gaza? If the Soldiers aren't doing the dirty work- then who will- Olmert himself? Refusing to do what can't be done is logic. But the left doen't operate with logic, it works due to emotion. They either are fearful, or create it. now that's fact. Rabbi Trop, atah tzodek.
29. I hate loonie rabbis, but the IDF is an army of cowards
Antonio ,   Haifa   (11.28.07)
No self-respecting Jew should participate in this cowardice institution that protects the Arab enemy and evicts the people it was supposed (and used to) protect. No respect for IDF.
30. #15 Israel, a Jewish country where the Torah is the power,
Joseph P. ,   Jerusalem   (11.28.07)
religion and politics must go together.
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