Actually, there is no such thing as a "right" to a homeland. This is a made up concept. Although every human being has a "right" to live and exist, and has a "right" to a home, I do not know from where they learn that a people have a "right" to a homeland. Still, can someone tell me who determines this "right", who has the right to confer this "right" and if anyone has worked out what happens when there are two peoples who claim this "right" for the same piece of land?

As a person with Prussian ancestry whose ancestral home was just east of Stolp, I can second what #3 and #4 said. I don't recall the Vatican ever advocating the right of return for those of Prussian ancestry to what is now Poland. Come to think of it, I also have Czech ancestry from what used to be known as Sudetenland, so I know what they're saying about Sudetenland. My studies also indicate that #50 and #52 have some very valid points. And finally, my ex-wife has some Cherokee ancestry, which means my sons have some Cherokee ancestry. So, has anyone ever heard Jimmy Carter ever advocate the right of return of the Cherokee to Georgia? (His neighbors would probably lynch him if he ever did.)

This business of the vatican is just that, a business. Unfortunately they aren't in any moral position to represent anyone. The commonality between the PLO and the Vatican must be that both they and Arafat, loved young boys. That's a 'church'? When did they ever love the place where their 'lord' was born? The pals used their bible for toilet paper, should give you a clue as to what the pals think of this 'church' of dogma and ignorance. They even rewrote the commandments to fit their bowing to idols! They have no business in Israel.

This business of the vatican is just that, a business. Unfortunately they aren't in any moral position to represent anyone. The commonality between the PLO and the Vatican must be that both they and Arafat, loved young boys. That's a 'church'? When did they ever love the place where their 'lord' was born? The pals used their bible for toilet paper, should give you a clue as to what the pals think of this 'church' of dogma and ignorance. They even rewrote the commandments to fit their bowing to idols! They have no business in Israel.

The Armenian Christians have been living in the Holy Land for centuries , especially in and around Jerusalem, and have always maintained their identity as Armenians, not "Palestinians".

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so," Hitler told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals, in 1941.

Memo to Palestinian: There is absolutely no truth to anything you said. None. Nada. Zip. Zero. What's strange is that people can be so duped into believing an alternate reality. "Palestine" is Israel. Always has been Israel. Always will be Israel. The only "Palestinians" are Jews. The history of the world -- the one not rewritten by revisionist Muslim conquerors -- is plain to see.

Firstly, the NT is contradicting the TNK - agreed. Next - no Jews accepted Jesus, not the Pharisees, nor the Sadducees. Third, the Oral Law, just like the NT contradicts the TNK, and didnt really exisst in the days of the true neviim. But you are a crackpot, u think you are an orthodox Jew, but i doubt that very much!

Clearly, the Vatican still hates the Jews. Despite Nostar Atate and other denounciations of anti-semitism, the Vatican would still see the State of Isarel destroyed. The Arabs have no 'right of return'. Would they allow a million Jewish refugees to return to the Arabs lands from which they were expelled? And why dont the Arabs want to live in the new (second) Palestinian state? Why do they want to live in Israel, a country they hate? Surely they can only want to do this in order to destroy it from within. The Vatican should be ashamed of itself and appologise to Israel and the Jews for its appaualing behaviour.

Yes you are so right. And that is why Christians are complaining about being harrassed and forced out of Bethlehem by ummm, Palestinian Muslims. I've yet to hear about the Jews burning Christian churches and taking away Christian rights and symbols.

I'm certainly not a pope fan , more the contrary . But attacking him because he was a member of the hitlerjugend is not serious . In 1933 he was 6 years old , and was not making this choice , he did what all the boys of his age did . Regarding this saying of the vatican , let them speak , not important , we know what has to be done , or what can't be allowed , and don't need to receive lessons from them . I think the contrary would be the right way .

Where did you learn your history? In 1869 Mark Twain published a chronicle of his travels to Palestine in 1967- Innocents Abroad: "Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes. Over it broods the spell of a curse that has withered its fields and fettered its energies. Where Sodom and Gomorrah reared their domes and towers, that solemn sea now floods the plain, in whose bitter waters no living thing exists--over whose waveless surface the blistering air hangs motionless and dead --about whose borders nothing grows but weeds, and scattering tufts of cane, and that treacherous fruit that promises refreshment to parching lips, but turns to ashes at the touch. Nazareth is forlorn; about that ford of Jordan where the hosts of Israel entered the Promised Land with songs of rejoicing, one finds only a squalid camp of fantastic Bedouins of the desert; Jericho the accursed, lies a moldering ruin, to-day, even as Joshua's miracle left it more than three thousand years ago; Bethlehem and Bethany, in their poverty and their humiliation, have nothing about them now to remind one that they once knew the high honor of the Saviour's presence; the hallowed spot where the shepherds watched their flocks by night, and where the angels sang Peace on earth, good will to men, is untenanted by any living creature, and unblessed by any feature that is pleasant to the eye. Renowned Jerusalem itself, the stateliest name in history, has lost all its ancient grandeur, and is become a pauper village; the riches of Solomon are no longer there to compel the admiration of visiting Oriental queens; the wonderful temple which was the pride and the glory of Israel, is gone, and the Ottoman crescent is lifted above the spot where, on that most memorable day in the annals of the world, they reared the Holy Cross. The noted Sea of Galilee, where Roman fleets once rode at anchor and the disciples of the Saviour sailed in their ships, was long ago deserted by the devotees of war and commerce, and its borders are a silent wilderness; Capernaum is a shapeless ruin; Magdala is the home of beggared Arabs; Bethsaida and Chorazin have vanished from the earth, and the "desert places" round about them where thousands of men once listened to the Saviour's voice and ate the miraculous bread, sleep in the hush of a solitude that is inhabited only by birds of prey and skulking foxes." How come no-one ever heard of Palestinians before Egyptian-born Arafat founded the PLO in 164? Moreover, Tristram, and other travelers, identified over 15 Arab nationalities who settled in Jaffa. Libyan migrants and refugees settled in Gedera, south of Tel Aviv. Algerian refugees (Mugrabis), escaping the French conquest of 1830, settled in Safed, Tiberias and other parts of the Galilee. Their leader, Abd el-Kader el-Hasseini, headquartered in Syria! Circassian refugees, fleeing Russian oppression (1878), Moslems from Bosnia, Turkomans, Yemenite Arabs (1908) and Bedouin tribes from Jordan (escaping wars and famine) diversified Arab demography there.

I found it emotionally and intellectually disturbing to see the King of Saudi Arabia present the Pope with a sword on his visit to the Vatican recently.

I had hoped a real estate attorney would answer you, Reuven, but they didn't so I'll hope I don't make too many errors. When buying real estate (at least in Florida), the wise buyer commissions a title search of the property, which traces it back to its earliest recorded owner. The purpose is to determine that all of the previous transfers were proper and legal and, therefore, none of the previous owners still hold a valid claim to the property. The right of the "original" owner, who first claimed ownership, is inherent in this principle. Thus, the rights to land emanates from its indigenous people by proper and legal transfer. (I hope I'm not too far off base.) Where the transfer of land isn't proper, or legal, or with the permission and remuneration of the legal owner, there is no transfer of the owner(s)' rights to the land. Historical documentation shows that this is the case of the expulsion of Jews by the Romans in 135 C.E. The earlier, pre-Jewish, indigenous people of the land were the Kenaanim (Canaanites) and the land was called after them, Kenaan. Historical documentation confirms that all of the Kenaanim fell into one of three categories: (1) killed in battle, (2) individuals who fled without any ability to maintain identity as a people, and (3) the brunt of women and children who were absorbed into Israel. Thus, the Kenaanim morphed into Israel, transforming Israel into the (most) indigenous people of the land. To answer a different question that some talkbackers have raised, Ynet refused to publish my response in another article that answered the question raised about why I urge Ynet to publish candlelighting times. As for candlelighting times, this is yet another indicator of your inability to reason logically. It should be obvious that I don't need these times for myself. For example, hadlaqat neirot in Tel Aviv for next Shabat is 1618 and Havdalah is 1716. You are clearly unable to reason for yourself that there might be people all around the world, including many non-Jews, who are eagerly learning about Torah for whom it would be convenient to find it in ynet like in all Jewish (!) newspapers without having to go look for it. Perhaps if YOU thought about someone besides YOURself, your life would improve. PS: the most popular Israeli Jewish newspaper not publishing candlelighting times on Erev Shabbat and Erev Khag in its on-line counterpart is a disservice to Jewish readers and a disgrace to Israel. Even ha-Aretz publishes candlelighting times. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

This is why Saudia Arabia visited the Vatican.

Palestinian, if what you say is true, that "most Palestinians are indigenous to Palestine", this would mean that most Palestinians are descended from Jews who, during the Roman/Byzantine occupation, converted to Christianity and, during the Muslim occupation, converted to Islam. What you are essentially saying is that Jews are indigenous to Palestine and that you are, ethnically speaking, Jewish. According to genetic studies done with Palestinians and Jews, it shows that Palestinians feature a missing genetic link between Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews, which attests to the Jewish origins of Palestinians. Around 1850, the population of Palestine was at about 700,000, stretched across modern day Israel, Gaza, the West Bank and Jordan. This is like the entire population of San Francisco stretched across all of New Jersey and almost half of Pennsylvania. This is a miniscule amount of population density. Nevertheless, between 1850 and 1948, there was a massive influx of Arab immigration to Palestine from Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt with the emerging citrus industry in Palestine being bankrolled by the Rothschilds in Europe. These so called "Palestinians" are considered native Palestinians by the UNRWA even though they're about as native as Eskimos in Arabia! Sum and total, Palestinian, either you're Jewish, Syrian, Jordanian, Lebanese, Egyptian or some mixture of all 5.

Your premise that "Palestinians feature a missing genetic link between Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews" appears to be an exaggeration predicated on a misunderstanding of biological science. I don't see how the similarity of the Y-chromosome polymorphism haplogroup demonstrates any more than that both, especially Ashkenazi Jews, have been affected by the European gene pool more so than Jews of the Middle East (more accurately than Sepharadim, which includes Jews of Spain). "Several studies have shown that [Palestanis] that have a larger than usual (among Arabs) European blood. This may be explained by the Crusades and the establishment of a Crusader Kingdom in medieval times. It is highly likely that at least some percentage of the [Palestani] population mixed with Europeans, either through intermarriage or rape of Arab women by Europeans, as well as European women by Arabs. Additionally, cities with significant [Palestani] populations, including Bethlehem, Nazareth and Jerusalem, are sites of many Christian holy landmarks, which draw a large number of European tourists. This, too, may have played a role in the disproportionate amount of European genes found among [Palestanis]." (originally from George Mason University's History News Network, hnn.us). The same source states ""Palestinians, however, differ from other Arabs in some ways. As the web site for Harper's Magazine reported, one study showed that Jews and Palestinians have common ancestry that is so recent that it is highly likely that at least some of the Palestinian blood actually descends from Jews. [3] Another study by New York University confirmed a remarkable similarity between Jewish and Palestinian genes. "Jews and Arabs are all really children of Abraham," said Dr. Harry Ostrer, director of the Human Genetics Program at New York University School of Medicine, who worked on the study. "And all have preserved their Middle Eastern genetic roots over 4,000 years. [4]" (I haven't been able to track down the bibliography for the citations.) Thus, genetics, confirmed by the scientists, suggests only that the [Palestanis] are Edomim (Edomites), descendents of Yishmaeil or Eisau. Importantly, however, genetics rule out any connection to the Philistines, who were of Greek (thus, European), not Semitic, descent. They may have mingled with the Philistines in relatively recent times, but the [Palestanis], who are primarily Semitic, cannot be connected (any more so than, say, Jews) with the primarily genetic Greek stock of the Philistines. PS: the most popular Israeli Jewish newspaper not publishing candlelighting times on Erev Shabbat and Erev Khag in its on-line counterpart is a disservice to Jewish readers and a disgrace to Israel. Even ha-Aretz publishes candlelighting times. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

I Kings 18 - Elijah was a Jew!

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/324/7339/695 Here it is... By the way, your premise that my premise that "Palestinians feature a missing genetic link between Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews" appears to be an exaggeration predicated on a misunderstanding of biological science, appears itself to be an exaggeration predicated on a misunderstanding of exactly which genetic study I was actually referring to. Paqid, word to the wise- Before attempting to tear down arguments that, in the larger scope of things, support your viewpoint, logic (which you claim is halachic authority) would dictate that you first request the source paraphrased in the argument you are analyzing, then proceed to make judgements based upon: a) the source, b) the arguer's analysis of that source, and c) it's applicability to the issue at hand. We're on the same side, Paqid; in your quest of trying to be right, please don't forget to be civil...

This coming from a Vatican who preached the Jew's killed Jesus until the 60's and harbored and aided Nazi's running from prosecution. Go back under your rock Cardinal.

Where does it say that the LORD GOD OF ISRAEL gave anything to the Palestinians?

not accept the king's invitation to become a Moslem, so the next phase is war for Moslems. The Moslems and the Catholics have been war partners before as well as having wars between them. The Catholics hired Moslem mercenaries to fight for General Franco in the Spanish Civil War after Spain threw out the Jesuits. After the Civil War, Spain was open again for the Jesuits. So the sword may be a symbol of a war the Moslems will fight for the Catholics or a war the Moslems will fight against the Catholics. It is no secret the Catholics want Protestant America. That is one reason for the invasion of mostly Catholic illegals across the Mexican-US border: to change the balance of power by granting the 20 million illegals amnesty...or by civil war like in Spain. Remember that forty per cent of the people coming across that border are OTM's which means other than Mexicans. Are the Catholics going to use Moslems to attack America for the Catholics to get control? Most of the US Congress is now Catholic. Catholics use Moslems and pay them well for insurections as mercenaries. I see skullduggery of some kind about to come of this meeting between the Pope and the King of Saudi Arab ia.