Jewish Scene
Former chief Rabbi to Bush: Don't act against God’s will
Kobi Nahshoni
Published: 10.01.08, 08:54
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206 Talkbacks for this article
1. This is blackmailing
2. Amen, Rabbi.
Christy ,   Boston, US   (01.10.08)
The last thing I want to see is for a US president to act against God's will regarding Israel. Hopefully Bush will listen to you.
3. Kol Hakovod!
Rafi Goodman ,   Melbourne, Australia   (01.10.08)
Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu, Kol Hakovod for not mincing words and being polite yet being direct and firm about the dangers that face Israel!
4. Note: YNET describes these words of wisdom as a 'warning'
Chalanau, Tova ,   London, UK   (01.10.08)
Unlike Mr Nasrallah's "rant" this rubbish is headlined as a "warning". Could we not have a more impartial sub-editor on this website by someone who doesn't introduce his/her own prejudices in the news section?
5. Army?
David ,   Yerushalayim   (01.10.08)
Did Rabbi Eliyahu's sons serve in the IDF? If not, shut up, you are an anti-Zionist!
6. Politics & Religion
Hiram ,   Paris   (01.10.08)
The mix of politics and religion is partially responsible for today's havoc in the middle east. This area , Israel included, has not yet found the way to separate state affairs from religion. This attitude , which could be understood when coming from an Arab country as in line with the traditional stances of Islam ( and the backwardness of it ) is now affecting the image of Israel when such statements are uttered by religious conservatives. No one ever even ask himself if God exists.....!!! Using God's name in purely "political" environment is an insult to secular Jews and Israelis alike. One of the reason why European countries have managed to move ahead is separation of state and religious powers. Now more than ever, I believe the same should be done in Israel. Politics and religion do not go together. We know where it has led some of our Arab counsins : To absolute chaos !
7. Threatening the President of the United States now
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (01.10.08)
Ran out of Israelis to threaten?
8. #6 Hiram
Shalom   (01.10.08)
What stupidity you have written. If Israel is not a Jewish Nation, it has no place in the Middle East or anywhere else on the map for that matter. You cannot accredit the same logic of state/religion to Israel where the very raison d'etre is because of religion, as you can to Europe.
9. Rav M Ekeyahu
herb ,   US   (01.10.08)
The word from this rabbi are very powerful. I trembled
10. Kol HaKavod, Hiram! This is the problem!
Willy ,   Israel   (01.10.08)
11. Reply to # 8
Hiram ,   Paris   (01.10.08)
Dear #8 . I do not believe that what I have written is stupid. It meets historical reality. I remind you that the basis of the creation of the state of Israel was the ZIonist convention in Basel and I am sure you will admit with me that in the years follwing the creation of the state of Israel, the successive governments were not so much concerned about God's words or God's silences ....and the socialistic approach which caharacterized Israel's economy in the pre-70's reflects perfectly this reality. Your comments seem to indicate that you too place religion above the rest, and this is fully your right. However it remains your own perception. Judaism goes far beyond religion, and placing religion in every corner of our societey makes us look more and more like an arab country ( see last comments about separating male teachers from femail teachers. A bit more and Iran will seem to be a more westernized country !!!) Last but not least, so that it appears possibly clearer for you : whatever was left on my family ( Just a few cousins, as the rest was killed in Belzec) setlled in Israel in 1946. They worked hard for a living till they retired. It is not religion which created the State of Israel. The state was created as a direct result of 1) the sacrifice of 6.000.000 Jewish lives deleted from the earth by the infamous NAzi regime 2) based on the concepts of Zionism and related ideals which started up with Theodor Herzl. It is however religious extremism which slows down the maturity of Israel ( no civil marriage, intolerance towards minorities, interferences of all kinds in affairs which , in the rest of the world, would be the competence of the state. Everyone can pray in Israel but the is and will never be any obligation !
12. not in my name
Simon ,   TA Israel   (01.10.08)
How dare Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu presume he talks on behalf of all the jewish people, well not this one ! Warning George Bush? Who does he think he is? I dont suppose Mr Bush takes to much notice of some religious nutter that looks like an extra from Harry Potter.
13. How can Bush do this?
Graham ,   Germany   (01.10.08)
"and to encourage Israeli Jews to make aliyah to Israel en masse" .. aren't they already there?
14. Hiram & Willy: Israel is NOT like another European country.
Joseph P. ,   JewRusalem   (01.10.08)
Israel is NOT like another European country and was not intended to be one. The state of Israel is JEWISH and RELIGIOUS FIRST and then political, otherwise, we have no business creating our own state. "Using God's name in surely political environment is an insult to secular Jews and Israelis alike." YOU and Jews like you are the biggest insult to G-d and His Jewish nation. The problem with the state of Israel momentarily is that it's not run by G-dfearing Jews with moral values, like Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu shlit"a and Rabbi Ovadia Yosef shlit"a.
15. #5 How dare you talk to a holy Rabbi with such chutzpah.
Joseph P. ,   Jerusalem   (01.10.08)
Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu shlit"a is more Zionist than you are. He's more concerned for the Jewish people of Israel and the country of Israel than you, Olmert, Livni and others are. And that's true Zionism. What kind of Zionist are you if you give away Jewish owned land to terrorists? Why don’t we hear from you when Jews are injured or killed by terrorists to whom you gave away from OUR land? Why don’t we hear from you when deadly rockets are fired at Jewish towns? Where’s YOUR Zionism? Shame on you!
16. #4 Yes, this is a "warning".
Joseph P. ,   Jerusalem   (01.10.08)
Have you forgotten what happened to PM Sharon after his expulsion of 10,000 Jews from their homeland?
17. seperation of religion from state
yoni ,   jerusalem   (01.10.08)
we are in the process of seperating the religion from the state as we can all tell. the only thing that is coming out of this is confusion and self destruction. The moment we leave the religion out of our state agenda we have no reason to be here and we can all return to America or other places in the world that we came from. truth is that all of those seperating the religion from the state have children who are making yerida. go figure! 1 of four seculars dodge the draft. tel aviv barely votes in the elections whats happened??
18. Mordy is correct, we are the eternal chosen people
Manny Darling   (01.10.08)
plus - what a groovy turban! -- cool !
19. To Yoni #17 and others
Hiram ,   Paris   (01.10.08)
Shalom Yoni Yes, Israel is not like any other country as it has its own specificity directly connected with the existence and the exodus(es) of the Jewish people. You and me know that. The danger I see is that religion is often taking over the common sense and that it contributes to showing a negative image of the country. I am not a person who talks about Israel without knowing the place . I lived and worked there for a few years and as you can see I have family. Religion is an affair which is directly between God and the individual. One religious education is provided, the choice must remain that of the individuals. ( yes, I still light candles on shabbes but it is MY prerogative). Excessive religious involvement brings idiotic situation like Neturei Karta and the fact that no Israeli government has ever been able to hold office without contribution from "fundamentalists" ( I use this word on purpose ) . We all come from the same family. You and I know that well. And for those who believe it was ( if I recall ) directly upon God's will and decision !!! But the world has changed and looking more closely at changing the rules would do only good to the country. I Personally know many Israelis who have elected to leave Israel on these very basis. I do believe in God but I do not want to impose my own beliefs upon others. Dodging the draft ? May be there are reason directly associated with the way TZAHAL is organized and is handling its men ( a few good freidns of mine were in the last Lebanon war in an army totally unable to even comprehend what was going on ) ..Tel Aviv barely votes ? Guess why : MKs are corrupt, even the religious one. Jewish value have nothing to do with religion. Jewish values are above all associated with NOah's basic laws and reflect the specificity of the Jewish people as generally men of good will , understanding and tolerance....nothing to do with God but everyhting to do with History.
20. Shalom ,
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.10.08)
It's not because of religion that the State of Israel was reborn by mostly secular Jews , but because of our historical links to this country . This country was not given to Israel by one superior power , Jews had always to fight for it . And yes , the place for Rabbanim is not at the Knesseth , but at the Batei Knesseth . We have to remain a State for the Jews , TRUE ones , secular and religious alike , but the religion has not to have the influence it has . Religion can have his say regarding who is a Jew , weddings and so . But not on most other domains , the Shabbat is one example .
21. Answer to Joseph P 14
Hiram ,   Paris   (01.10.08)
Dear Jo, your language demonstrate the limites of tolerance which characterized SOME Orthodoxes and those who have poorly digested the contents of our 5 books. Having been raised in traditional Jewish values , I will forgive you for saying that I am an insult. Islamic extremists fighting the "infidels" ( you, me, all of those who are not Moslems) have an approach similar to your's and this is exactly what leads to the situation today in the Middle east. You simply made my point . If I recall correctly the time of Hurricane KATRINA in the US , a God fearing individual living in Israel and wearing a funny hat and starnge dark shades made some derogatory and uncharitable comments about this event stating that God had something to do with it ! I will spare you the name of that individual as obviously you belong to the same political party. Nevertheless ,and although it is 1 day too early : Git Shabbes !
22. now this is a good rabbi!
eddie ,   London UK   (01.10.08)
i think Bush will respect someone who believes in his own rights, and is strong to speak up.
23. Doesn't anybody see a problem in this letter?
Jonas ,   SAD   (01.10.08)
...“anyone who accepts the bible as the word of God must keep in mind that God had promised the land of Israel to the Jewish people alone. The Ishmaelites have no part of this divine guarantee.” What if you DON'T accept Bible as a word of G-d?
24. #21 The difference between me and you
Joseph P. ,   JewRusalem   (01.10.08)
I am PROUD to be born a Jew. I am PROUD to show and act like a true Jew. I am PROUD to belong to the Jewish nation. I am PROUD to merit to live in the Jewish country. I am PROUD to fulfill all of G-d's commandments for Jews. I am PROUD to have Orthodox Jewish ancestors and am a PRIDE to my ancestors. You are just the opposite. You are ASHAMED to be born a Jew. You are ASHAMED to show and act like a true Jew. You are ASHAMED to belong to the Jewish nation. You are ASHAMED to live in the Jewish country. You are ASHAMED to fulfill most of G-d’s commandments for Jews. You are ASHAMED of your Orthodox Jewish ancestors and you are an INSULT to your ancestors. So tell me, who has “poorly digested the contents of our 5 books”??? In case you haven’t realized, there is a G-d who runs this world. Yesh din veyesh dayan. And everything happens with a reason. And yes, if the Rabbis who have Heavenly outlook on things happening in this world claim that Katrina was a punishment, then that’s what it was. You probably don’t believe that Noah’s Flood was a punishment either. Hah? A true sign of an apikores.
25. #23 The problem is with you, not with the letter.
Joseph P. ,   JewRusalem   (01.10.08)
26. #23 What?
Kev ,   London   (01.10.08)
Well then the letter would not have been composed in the first place, would it? The point is that Mr Bush does claim to believe the Bible to be the word of G-d, hence the Rabbis appeal.
27. The Rabbi is quite right
Petra ,   usa   (01.10.08)
He tells Bush the will of G-d as written and believed by both Jews and Christians alike. If Bush can opt to trust G-d more than the Saudi peace plan(?) he will act with G-ds blessings. If not, America and Israel will suffer greatly.
28. Hiram, thanks for living in Paris, stay there, u r 1 of them
gabriela ben ari ,   jerusalem   (01.10.08)
29. Way to go Rabbi Eliahu ! Well said Joseph !
gabriela ben ari ,   jerusalem   (01.10.08)
good news to start the day with ! someone needs to spell out to the word what our leaders don't
30. to #12
Benyamin ,   Detroit   (01.10.08)
Remember what happened to Korach. Be carefull. The Torah tells to follow the Rabbis. It also applies to all others who are against the will of G-d.
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