Jewish Scene
New president for Argentinean Jewish umbrella organization stirs things up
Associated Press
Published: 13.06.08, 12:09
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31. Torah is more than the old testament.
just a jew ,   Jerusalem   (06.13.08)
it happens to be the Manufacturers instructions.
32. Dks #7 no oxymoron, simply moronic
Joe Jew ,   J'lem   (06.13.08)
your regurgitated bias and steriotypical prejudices are puerile. being a secular Jew might not be an oxymoron, but you are a moronic specimen, IF THOSE ARE YOUR REASONS WHY.
33. Goijman calls for discrimination
Jewboy ,   Israel   (06.13.08)
sounds like the anti orthodox discrimination just ended, at least in Argentinia. then again with a name like that I would think he would choose to keep very quiet.
34. Illogic in post 9
(06.13.08)
Sorry but you are illogical. Living here is only a mitzva IF used as an opportunity to keep more mitzvot. the paradox is greater: those who live here , take all the shortcuts to Mitzva observance they can and then call themselves greater than those who keep mitzvot overseas. If you wish to learn more see the Ramban and Megilat Ester on the Rambam's Sefer haMitzvot
35. #2 and bias. Sounds like jealosy to me
jewboy ,   J'lem   (06.13.08)
36. To the "Authentic Ones"
(06.13.08)
Is being a real Jew dressing like a 19th century Polish nobleman? I seem to recall the rabbis teaching us that the laws of our country which do not oppress religious practice should be observed as if they were our religious laws. Yet who gets arrested for money laundering for drug dealers? Reform, Conservative or Orthodox? From which sect did a rabbi get arrested for stealing millions from an organization for helping the handicapped? From which did a member get arrested for aiding a terrorist organization after 9/11? Who has hugged Farrakhan, Ahmadinijad, and Arafat? Believe me, a deep sense of shame is keeping me brief. There's alot more to go.
37. The good news is that orger got DEMOCRATICALLY elected
AM ISRAEL   (06.13.08)
by the comitee over there.... Bad news for Mr Goijman
38. argentinas orthodox leader
elliot ,   point roberts,usa   (06.13.08)
one has a jewish mother or does not---this is a no -brainer at least until the enlightened try to divide the jews with patrilineal descent and gay marriage. a jew is observant or not--this is an individual matter and diversity of custom is the rule,not the exception...what's in the heart matters but what good we do matters more...obsevance should lead to mitzvot but may not!
39. #24, Converts aren't descendands of Jacob=not Bnei Israel
Antonio ,   Haifa   (06.13.08)
Bnei Israel are descendands of Israel/Jacob, NOT any foreign cretin who decides to start following OUR mitzvot.
40. Reply to #11, Adam Shapiro and #32, Joe Jew
DkS ,   J'lem, IL   (06.13.08)
#11. I most certainly do not hate myself (nor do I hate any other person) and I am very proud of my Jewish heritage. Experiencing extreme orthodox intolerance here in Jerusalem first-hand gives me every right to write what I did. I am not the problem of Jewish/Israeli society. The problem are those people who refuse to contribute but at the same time have to tell others how to live and in the meanwhile take whatever they can from the others they so loath. And yes, Judaism indeed did not originate in Europe. Haredi 'Judaism' did. #32. I am not a secular Jew because of my 'stereotypical prejudices'. I am secular because I choose to live that way. I have the most possible respect for Judaism, it is a beautiful thing. My own girlfriend is religious and I myself, though undoubtly secular, still observe many commandments and holidays. But I have little love for those population groups who rape and/or misuse the religion for nationalistic or anti-zionist motives. Plenty of secular Israelis who normally would be open to religion, are turned off by it because of orthodox Jews' misbehavior, extreme, wrong interpretations and the failure of religious leaders to condemn these phenomena. True Judaism is the antithesis of religious extremism and fanaticism. People who do not understand that and still claim to be religious Jews, are the real moronic specimens.
41. #2
Asher ,   Jerusalem   (06.13.08)
Very intelligent remark. What does that have to do with the article. 2 wrongs do not make a right.
42. #2- is it corrupt to make a false accusation against others?
traditional jew   (06.13.08)
Comment #2 is the textbook example of prejucide. #2, with whom have you cast your lot? As for me and mine, we pray to G-d.
43. What Rubbish
Raymond ,   South Africa   (06.13.08)
Judaism is not just a religion, its also a cultural & national identity. We Jews have enough enemies already, do we need to create discord among ourselves to? If you identify with the "Jewish Nation", as far as im concerned -YOU JEWISH. Leave the rest up to G-D.
44. Who Dares To Judge
Paul ,   England   (06.13.08)
Many of these self righteous orthodox Jews, seem to love money a lot more than they love G-D. Yet they dare to judge others on who is, or is not a Jew. What a bunch of hypocritical twits. By the way, im a proud, non-practicing,orthodox born Jew.
45. to Antonio-#39
Chanya ,   USA   (06.13.08)
Antonio, You're wrong when you make the outrageous comment that converts are not part of B'nai Yisrael. You're not wrong because I say you're wrong. You're wrong because the Rambam says you're wrong. The Talmud says you're wrong. The Shulchan Aruch says you're wrong. The Chief Rabbinate says you're wrong. In fact, good luck finding a credible Jewish source that says that a halachic convert isn't Jewish. Your definition of being Jewish apparently is based on race. That's what Hitler did. I would prefer to follow Halachah, not Hitler. I think it's just a little bit more Jewish. Before you go off saying such offensive things about converts, please get educated about what Judaism actually says. If you still don't agree, then at least admit that you're not following Judaism, but your own warped racist sense of who is a Jew.
46. 39: If converts are not genuine descendants, then what are
Rivkah   (06.13.08)
the descendants of Joseph's wife Aseneth? What are the descendants of the Moabitess, Ruth? What are the descendants of Solomon and Sheba? What are the descendants of Rahab? Do you have a geneology from the time of Jacob to show you are really Jewish? No. The geneological records were destroyed, weren't they, when the Temples of Solomon were burned down by the Babylonians and then the Romans.
47. #16 Jews a race??
leah ,   socal   (06.13.08)
Am Jewish not only on my mothers side but fathers as well. And Jews are NOT a race! We come in all colours shapes & sizes. How can one convert ito Judaism if a race? We're a tribe a nation of people & that's it.. No wonder the goyim are confused not that I care LoL Shalom
48. #45, If Rambam contradicts logic, HE is wrong,and so are you
Antonio ,   Haifa   (06.13.08)
Not descendants of Israel=not Bnei (this means "descendants") Israel (this means "of Israel")
49. So.. I'm not jewish?
Ilan ,   Bs As, Argentina   (06.14.08)
I go to the sinagogue every shabat (and jaguim), I hear the reading of the Torah, I eat kosher, I went to jewish school, I'm a conservative jew.. why this man is more jewish than I am? I respect him, why can orthodox resepct me? If you want to read news (in spanish) about the jewish life, Israle and stuff, I recommend enter here: http://israelnoticias.blogspot.com/
50. antonio.......
Carol ,   Argentina   (06.14.08)
who do u think u r to say what is what? who is jew and who is not? I know many "converts" that are better Jews and behave better than any other "genuine" jew.. sooooooooooooooooooo?
51. to antonio
adam ,   london   (06.13.08)
antonio avraham avinu converted many people in his time, conversion is an ancient process. conversion is needed for lost jews/lost tribes to come back to israel. there are ten lost tribes and israel needs them back, the only way they can come is by converting back to judaism. only holiest people can join israel not just any person. Its up to g-d who converts and who not. those who do are speciel, because they have jewish souls and are jewish spiritually.
52. #2
Jane   (06.13.08)
Seek and ye shall find. You are probably looking for a reason to justify your dislike of truly observant Jews.
53. Completely wrong Antonio
Daniel ,   Spain   (06.14.08)
You made a great mistake. Jews are all biological and SPIRITUAL descendants of Israel/Jacob. It would be really funny that you discovered you are a descendant from a convert 2000 years ago. Oh what a pitty, not a "real" ben Israel after all. Please Antonio, ASK a Rabbi, orthodox, conservative or reform whatever you want. But please learn judaism because if ALL "children of jewish mother" are pure bnei Israel then I am Mickey Mouse. Please study Halacha
54. Spinoza Has Shown the Road
Let Us Get Modern   (06.14.08)
Judaism and religions were developmental stages in humanity's history. Since Spinoza, the mind has been working differently, and we live the age of Enlightenment. The cult of religion is very silly, there is no fundamental difference between scientelogy, christianity, islam and judaism. We need to study atheism urgently.
55. old testament
gzucky ,   ossining   (06.13.08)
If YNET means to refer to the Torah, why not simply say "Torah" When you say old testament, you are defining the Torah in Christian terms. In Christian theology, the new testament supercedes the old testament. Just say "Torah".
56. Mitzvoth Ha Eretz Yisroel
Ben Temalion ,   Shiloh, MO USA   (06.14.08)
Ki Mitzion Tezei Torah! Eretz Ha Kadosh! Eretz Ha Shelemah! Rak Kakh! To live on the land is so important, that the land protects life, it is pikuach nefesh to expel those from it that come to kill you and to keep them from the land that protects you. You desecrate it by not expelling those that come to kill you, you deny the Mitzvoth by not enforcing their right of return back to their homicidal peninsular homeland of their own name. What you do with the Hellenists and erev rav is left as an exercise to the reader.
57. To Offer: Yes Indeed, We Are All Under the Kassams
Dave Levy ,   Burbank. CAUSA   (06.14.08)
To Offer: He is WRONG, but you are right. We are ALL one nation, one people, living somewhat different lifestyles, with varying degrees of observance. I say, so what? Of the 6m Jews killed during WW2, many were Orthodox, many were NOT. Hitler killed us all. Israel is mainly secular..live and let live, each respecting an accepting one another, or all will perish. Kassams, Grads, Iranian Shihabs (with nuke warheads), Syrian Scuds, Egyptian F16 planes, Hez and Hamas madmen, DON'T GIVE ONE IOTA, they want all of us dead. The I hate Israel (and Zionist) crowd hates all, from religious Zionists to the most secular. Rub an anti-Semite, and the venom will come out..or as one gentile told me, "You Jews are all the same, except for the garb".
58. Many Palestinians were X- Jews... So what??
Observer   (06.14.08)
59. Gabriela ben Ari
bar ,   Israel   (06.14.08)
If in Argentina , or other Galut places , there are no problems between Secular Jews and religious ones , it's only because there the religious can't DICTATE their way of life to the seculars . Was there not such a big influence of the religion on our way of life , there would be NO problems between us here , and seculars would be much more tolerant too . Now , even secular Jews begalut are different than the non Jews they are living with . Having lived there for many years , worked with religious , even Belzer , seculars and non Jews , i know what i'm talking about . There is a BIG difference in behaviour , way of life , thinking and so on . Regarding unity between the different segments of the religious , you made me smile , remembering the war between the two Orthodox communities in my town regarding kashrut [ why do you write cashrus and shabbes ? ] years ago .
60. Miriam
bar ,   Israel   (06.14.08)
I have read here that the Great Rambam said it : living in Israel is the greatest mitswa . Those you mention had maybe much difficulties , making it impossible to accomplish this mitswa ?
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