Jewish Scene
Givat Shmuel singing contest causes division in Bnei Akiva
Kobi Nahshoni
Published: 10.07.08, 07:27
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1. Simple halacha
Shalom   (07.10.08)
Halacha states that women do not sing in front of men - shulchan aruch. These parents should decide whether they are looking for an organization for their kids that follows halacha or not; if yes, shut up; if not, there are umpteen zionist, secular youth organizations.
2. bnei
Yisraeli   (07.10.08)
Mafdal have greatly declined already Id hate to see Bnei Akiva head in the same direction. Bnei was always unique in that you could be daati and still not be strictly segregated like the charedi. I have fond memories of Bnei and its principles of Torah V'Avodah. Had I wanted segregation I would have sought out charedi groups. Besides I for one dont accept the nonsense of Kol Isha leading to lewdness etc. even if the shulchan aruch written hundreds of years ago says so. It also says using a sheet for coupling and many other things that are not widely practised. Rabbonim have piled over the centuries many issurim and are not m'doreisoh even if they extrapolate and add theyre own meaning that it is. All the machmirim just drive many Jews away from keeping yahadut. I can just imagine living in the days of Beit Hamikdash as a Jew and compare what they were bound to for a thousand years and what Jews are made to keep to today, almost a different people where yahadut became ritual observance in the strictest sense totally forgetting what it means to live as a Jew on his land like working on it (chass v'cholila a charedi have to work on the land) and yes even picking up the sword to defend it. Bottom line yiddishkeit and all its machmirim are all goluss based. You can take the Jew out of Golus but you cant take the Golus out of the Jew. Time we did.
3. Experts in Halacha?
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (07.10.08)
These parents are quoted in the article as writing: “According to the Halacha (Jewish Law), a mixed girls and boys singing contest can take place because the rule stating that a voice of a singing woman equals lewdness because it may distract one from prayer, does not call for completely divided performances.” Since when are these parents experts in the Halacha, and can rule what is or what is not permissible? Talk about "taking the law into your own hands...."
4. God never said so!!!
Chaya ,   Bat Yam, Israel   (07.10.08)
The Torah also says that you will not take away nor ADD to the Torah!
5. #1
Secular ,   israel   (07.10.08)
It's narrow minded comments like yours that will forever keep this country divided.
6. hard luck Bnot Israel
observer   (07.10.08)
7. Halacha
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.10.08)
Also by halacha monseigner Lustiger , bishop of Paris , was still Jewish when preaching at the notre dame cathedral . Also wrong , for me , as is your statement Shalom , halacha has to be adapted , we are not living in the middle ages anymore
8. What the Shulchan Aruch really says...
(07.10.08)
is "Kol Isha Herva" and this is interpreted by the Rabbis to mean that men are prohibited from listening to women singing. In other words the prohibition is on men to keep away from listening NOT that women should not sing. Further interpretations and rulings by the Rabbis indicate that if the singing is a group of women then it is permitted for men to listen.
9. its about time people began to take a stand...
(07.10.08)
against this ludicrous over separation between the sexes. Kol HaKavod to these parents!
10. NOT HALAKHAH AT ALL!
HaDaR ,   Qiryat Arba   (07.10.08)
Separation is required during prayer and Torah learning. The rest is TOSEFETH, and HAMOSIF GORE'A.
11. An old story
ex dati leumi   (07.10.08)
Bnei akiva have no commitment to halacha. they pretend halacha accepts what Halacha rejects
12. The noun 'affect' means emotion
Manu ,   Moscow   (07.10.08)
The sought-for noun is 'effect' meaning result
13. Historically men and boys sang
Manu ,   Moscow   (07.10.08)
not only in the Jewish world, but in Europe for 1500 years. Women were to keep the home and have children. We see how destructive feminism has been in exploding the family and ultimately society. Observant Jews seek for boundaries so that the same thing won't happen to them.
14. Givat Shmuel singing
Marlene ,   Israel   (07.10.08)
What a lot of rubbish - we are getting to be worse than the Taliban. Dont allow the girls to participate unless it is equal. No mixed singing and putting up plastic sheets at a hotel at the Dead Sea - rather pathetic..
15. This incident show the sheer stupidity of the law of Judaism
Wake up!The law has ,   been fulfilled!!!   (07.10.08)
16. Haredi coercion is damaging to our youth
Jewish grandmother ,   Israel   (07.10.08)
As a member of Bnei Akiva in my youth, the main-stream modern religious atmosphere of BA was a great thing to be part of , and a way of meeting respectable religiously committed young people, many of whom I count among my friends today. wgHumra of the Month Club strikes again and please remember that Bnei Akiva members are mostly teens,not married persons.
17. Mainstream Datiim -Fight the Haredi brainwash!
Meira ,   lsrael   (07.10.08)
As a religiously observant person, I went to Bnei Akiva in the Golah, when mainstream Jewish observance was what BA promoted, and brought many Jewish youths back to keeping kashrut etc. It was a wonderful way to meet fellow observant Jews, and no accident that huge numbers of BA members came on aliya, and produced Jewishly observant families. Kibbutz Lavi is a great example of this, where many joined via BA and torah ve avodah really means something, and the Haredi Humra Machers are regarded as a religous curiosity. I am also horrified by some the haredi brainwash which is being taught to my grandchildren in Mamlachti Dati schools, especially to girls, who are now in single- sex classes from kita alef, which is educationally unwise, especially for those young children who do not have siblings of the opposite sex. The increasing aggressiveness of the Haredim to try to force segregated buses on public transport, increasingly over-stringent kashrut declarations, making this shmitta year an obstacle race for people who wish to do the correct thing, and now the vicious campaign against persons converted by a respectable establishment Rabbi are a danger warning for our people. How are we going to keep our intelligent youngsters from dumping the whole thing, when there are so many other easier competing ideologies out there?
18. #2 Yisraeli
Shayna   (07.10.08)
Wow that nonsence hasn't come up for a while - "says using a sheet for coupling" The shulkhan orech does not say that at all. A couple should have nothing between them at all, but should be covered by a sheet. Oh - and those white and black things hanging on the line with a hole in the middle - they are tzitzit not marital toys!
19. Suicide
jerry ,   Eilat   (07.10.08)
THe Charadi lunacy has infected Bnei Akiva--but many of us saw this coming. The more the lunies do this, the greater the disdain for religious practice in Israel. For almost all of our history we did as much as we could to avoid schismatic behavior. Now that we have our own land rather than acting as one people, we seem to have a suicidal urge to separate ourselves
20. God creates Man segregates.
PETRA ,   usa   (07.10.08)
Whn Judaism treats women as equals, 'religion' will have made its mark.
21. #1 So, no lullabys for males by Momma?
PETRA ,   usa   (07.10.08)
such monumental crap!
22. Bad journalism
Naftush ,   Israel   (07.10.08)
In real journalism, the reporter would have approached Bnei Akiva's management and studied and reported on the rabbinical literature behind its practices. Instead, this piece, like many others on Jewish topics on this site, spreads shallowness and stokes hatred and bigotry. If the readers don't deserve better, maybe the advertisers do.
23. This has nothing to do with "Hareidi-ism"
Shalom   (07.10.08)
Once upon a time Bnei Akiva was was composed of teens who had very little Jewish learning. Today, the situation has changed. As the kids learn Torah, they realise that just because things were "always done this way" doesn't necessary mean it is right. Parents of kids in BA should be proud of their children; and those who aren't happy - well as I said earlier, there are many different, Zionist youth groups to choose from.
24. Religion mans worst enemy plus...........
Eric.... ,   Israel......   (07.10.08)
Even us Jews cant get on .We all need a new way of life.Nature and Buddhism, that should work . With a little Jewish tradition.
25. Hashem has a choir of angels singing around his throne. Nope
no segregation there ,   jc,usa   (07.10.08)
26. oh poor kids can't sing together... how terrible
gilad ,   ta   (07.10.08)
I really feel bad for these parents. Their poor and neglected kids can't sing together with the boy down the road. Shame. Terrible.To make matters worse, when these parents were in BA they were not seperated, so neither should there kids... um... Sorry, i am still trying to work out the connection. I thought that the times have changed?! I thought it was the 21 century and if this gen21 BA is what attracts them, why are their 'normal and anti-old-fashioned' parents mixing in. Like i said all along; THE RELIGOUS FANATICS OUR TAKING OVER. BEWARE. THEY ARE COMING TO EAT US ALIVE. RUN hv
27. #26
Gidon ,   ISRAEL   (07.10.08)
Please 26 run out of the country while you are running. The country is only going to survive with the torah true people . anyone that cant hack it can run as fast as they want.. halachah is halachah. Has survived thousands of years and your wise crack ideas are no going to effect it . Have a nice time in chutz laaretz
28. #25 are the angels females?
observer   (07.10.08)
29. #28 According to the Torah YES they are!!
(07.10.08)
30. This is not the Bnei Akiva I once knew
Maidel   (07.11.08)
If these parents wanted their children to be chareidim, they could have had them join other groups. Had Bnei Akiva been like this, I never would have joined them many years ago. If this is the way they are, I would not send a child of mine to any of their activities.
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