Opinion
They haven’t learned a thing
Noah Klieger
Published: 19.10.08, 11:47
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31. To the Austrian Talkbackers:
USA   (10.20.08)
It's going to take a lot more than 2 generations for the Jewish victims of the Nazis to recover psychologically from the torment visited on them from the Third Reich and its co-horts. Those who were complicit in crimes against humanity will never and should never be off the hook for their behavior, no matter how many apologies are offered. The Jewish culture that has been the victim of such severe persecution in Europe and elsewhere has the right to take its time to decide when it is ready to forgive. Large, pompous funerals celebrating right-wing politicians do not help dispell the worries and sensitivities many Jews in Israel still have regarding the resurgence of anti-semitism.
32. Austria is not on the NAZI road
guenter m. ,   Vienna - Austria   (10.19.08)
The writer of this article probably was never in Austria - at least he does not know, what people in Austria really think about. . It is true that 1938 99% voted for Hitler but you should also mention, that everybody that did not vote for Hitler had a good chance to disappear in a concentration camp. Furthermore you should mention, that even the Austrian Cardinal Innitzer at this time ordered the proclamation from every pulpit in every church that all Roman Catholics should elect Hitler. In 1938 Austria was more then 95% Roman Catholic and the Roman Church had a great influence, but today this percentage has sunk - in Vienna right now to less than 50% . But today in Austria to be NAZI or not to be NAZI is not the question - our problems now are criminal immigration, integration of foreigners, how to afford pensions etc. etc. and also a dramatic change to an Islamic culture (there are districts in Vienna with more than 50% Muslims and some month ago a Christian meeting in Upper Austria could not take place because a Muslim MP of the government of Vienna protested against it) . Jorg Haider as a demagogue could of course influence people very effectively And he has already found his logical successor (Strache). I understand that after the Holocaust every right shift in every state is seen as a great danger in Israel. But this was not a real right shift, the results of this election was mainly the punishment for the non-working but always-quarreling government in the past. I was always a great admirer of Israel - but if this reporting about Austria in the Israeli press continues in this way it will do no good, Israel will lose many friends in Austria by this kind of reporting.
33. Auschwitz-survivor
Andy ,   Vienna, Austria   (10.20.08)
If I am well informed, Mr. Klieger is an over 80 year old survivor of Auschwitz. I am willing to forgive - as a relatively young Austrian - such a man almost anything, including this badly informed comment. I appreciate Mr. Kliegers sensibility and fight. But journalism imho is not about fighting. It should be about informing. This article isn't.
34. 20, tell that to the Jews who polished the pavements of Wien
(10.20.08)
35. Hitler, an Austrian?
Beng Hoi ,   Kuala Lumpur   (10.20.08)
It is correct that he was born on the Austrian side of the German border. However, he is a draft dodger already in the first world war, where he fled to Germany in order to avoid military service in Austria. He was wanted for that, and only could set things "right" after the invasion of Austria in 1938. Also, do not forget that the only head of government ever killed by the Nazis was the Austrian Chancellor Dollfuss. And that many coup attempts were unsuccessful until Austria had to yield to the overwhelming Wehrmacht, which invaded in order to stop a plebiscite that would have reinforced the Austrian wish to remain independent. Austria until 1918 was the only place where many peoples lived together in harmony, and even today, is the place in Europe with the least violence by or against foreigners.
36. stop insulting Austria
Sigrid ,   Austria   (10.20.08)
I m deeply disturbed by the insults of my country that I have been reading in this and other israelian media. Lack of knowledge, ignorance and aggression dominate these articles and postings. I hope you too will learn at some point from your history like we Austrians did!
37. To 31:
(10.20.08)
So nicely written. You expressed my thoughts exactly. However, let me add just one small remark - - - these are the concerns of all Jews in the world - not only in Israel, of course. It will surely take a long time for the wounds to heal; if at all, and, yes - the Jews are the ones to decide if they can at all forgive such horrible and inhumane crimes. Thanks.
38. To 30 - No Nazis in Austria????interesting but false...
(10.20.08)
39. So many lies!The article and many answer are really shocking
Reverator ,   Austria   (10.20.08)
I am from and I live in Austria - in Carinthia - and I cannot believe how many lies are permanently told in 'foreign' (don't find a better word) online media about this country. About this wonderful land with this nice and rich people in it - at least most of them like everywhere to be honest of course. After reading so many articles interspersed with so many lies and/or bloated so called facts - I write my very first answer to all this articles. WHY? Because all this lies make me hit like a wall. Just: - Stop a minute in time - Think a minute about what A.H and nazi is. - If you hopefully know Austria and especially Carinthia you will at least now recognize that there are living normal and brave people like everywhere in the world. -> We have a good democracy -> We are neutral as a state (and the citizens want it to have that way, the government not for 100%) -> We have so many religions here -> We had no war for more than 60 years! - And we all thank for that! I hope that maybe I could take a minute from you and give you a different sight about Austria/Carinthia in exchange.
40. Did he harm anybody?
Thomas ,   US-EU   (10.20.08)
41. Anger, just anger
Georg R. ,   Vienna, Austria   (10.20.08)
Dear Mr Klieger, First I want to point out, that I never liked Mr. Haider and I dislike any politics based on hate or nationaism. Haider was a shameless demagogue a careerist. He was a master of verbal violence and also of sketchy communication - the reason for his popularity. I also understand that he provokes the worst feeling after this funeral event. So far - so I have to agree.... And of course there is my but! Your article is nothing more than a simle reflex of black and white painting. "...got the kind of funeral usually reserved for kings or presidents... Well, once upon a time... But this country has no longer kings. But Haider was a local "president". Bad to say, but he was. So he got the funeral of the protocol. Maybe not fair in your eyes neighter in my eyes. This guy died in an irresponsible acciedent. Just pure luck that nobody else lost his life. But no excuse for calling off the funeral. "...crying Austrians, many of whom are World War II veterans..." Hallo? after 70 yrs most of them are buried, death, simply: not here anymore. Its not the old idiotic doting guard of Adolfs Fans. Its an other generation. That doesnt makes it easier. I know. But I have to point out: these days I see people cross the society, cross the religios belief and more over cross the nationality discussing proand contra Haider. The dividing line is not always that clear. The real problem is not the "fascism" of Haider, its the absence of a democratic (self)understanding. Its "just" polarization. Instead of pointing out the bad behavior of an growing minority we should discuss the issues that leads to dangerous minds. We should discuss the basic values and selfunderstandig of what we are and what we want. To think it is just "a heritage" of al whole popuation is wrong and ignorant. You ignore the facts of different aspects cross europe that makes xenophobia and antisemitism popular again. The base of every dictatorship of any ignorant totalitarian system is the violent simplification of politics. I regret to say: you are closer to Haider than you might think.
42. as an Austrian Talbacker
Georg R. ,   Vienna, Austria   (10.20.08)
Well, I would agree and I will remember next time - when I see the drooling McCain. Right on time when he will give some remarkable quotes about Vietnam. I think a lot of vietnamese victims of the first generation will agree with you. No, I dont compare the holocaust with the war in Vietnam. But for the victims, like you said, it doesnt matter what kind of war was responsible for their damages...
43. @31.
Austria   (10.20.08)
So let us wait another 2 generations, saying sorry day by day - reading such things like that rubish in online newspapers? I just can´t understand your arguments... Imagine I were a Iracqian child who´s father and mother were killed by the Americans, who had to live in War his whole live. Now think about your child and the child of mine in about 20 years. What would your child say, if mine told yours: You are a killer and you killed so many citizens in my hometown - I want you to pay for your brutal crimes! IS THAT FAIR? Just think about that
44. Is this serious?
Helmut ,   Austria   (10.20.08)
If this is indeed Israel's best sold newspaper, then i feel sorry for Israel. I do not remember having ever read an article, that is similar utterly wrong and similar full with prejudice in any serious newspaper. One only can hope, that public opinion in Israel does not rely on articles like this.
45. The only one who hasen't learnt a thing ...
Nikolaus ,   Vienna, AUSTRIA   (10.20.08)
... is the author of this piece of anti-journalism! I am Austrian and I did not vote for Haider or one of his parties (and will not do so in the future). I am not - in any meaning of the word - antisemitic and do believe in a strong Israel as a state and a "concept" to bring peace to the Middle East region. Nevertheless this unbalanced and obviously FALSE coverage of the situation in Austria makes me angry. Probably this (and similar articles in the past) is part of the answer, why so many people attended the funeral of Mr. Haider. Try to see the big picture --> then write again! Yours sincerely, Nikolaus B
46. YOU HAVE NOT LERNED ANYTHING
Philipp ,   Austria   (10.20.08)
Haider was a one of the best gouverneurs Austria ever had. You are crazy, such articles like yours are shit!
47. Blood, terrorism, bombs and rockets in Israel in 2008
Martin ,   Austria   (10.20.08)
You are absolutely ridicolos and I feel very sad for all Israelis who are informed so poor by an totaly uninformed Journalist. Shame on you and your poor newspaper. This is a level of Jounalism which is 200 years old. Haider was a man of peace, justice and love. Your Israelis kill thousands of Palestinians, children, women and men. Congratulation! Nobody from Austria would travel to Israel because of fear of losing life.
48. No one wants to go back in time
MJ Mueller ,   Austria   (10.20.08)
It is not true that austria haven't learnt from the past - we are one of the most modern states of the world - with no war, best working social system - we live in peace with our neighbours, and we do not want to go back in time, no one wants to have the "Dritte Reich" back - believe me, that is an old sin two generations back in time have done. We the generation of the 21th century do keen on global thinking in an european community - talking to all the peoples out there - even with those, who will never be able to forgive - please learn, that past have to be past - the more you speak about the past, the more young people will try to do - also bad things. In my opinion it ist necessary to pull the last-line if we want to have a better future. There will be no more hate if no one is hating and remembering what historical hate is/was. If you want to have peace you should be peaceful - Jesus sad: "...the one who is without sin should throw the first stone...." - are you without sin? The one who has beenburied (I will not repeat his name) - whatever he has done, is dead - he will be forgotten - in a few years, but if you try to remember all the time what he has told - he will become immortal - and that is your work. Stop thinking on the past - really - start creating a new future. Try: Don't look back in anger - FUTURE is the world of our children - they should get all the opportunites without the past they haven't caused.
49. Declare war on Austria and re-educate them again.
(10.20.08)
50. You don't know a thing about Austria
Austrian ,   Linz/Austria   (10.20.08)
You and the journalist who wrote this article don't know a thing about austrian politics. "The Reich" is more than two generations away. No politician wants it back in Austria. Maybe 2 % of the people want it back... .. also in Israel you will find 2 % idiots.
51. All austrians are Nazis?
Johannstrauss ,   Austria   (10.20.08)
Dear Mr. Klieger! I would like to invite you to Austria to talk to the Jewish people who live here. Pleas optimize your investigations bevore writing such stupid words! We are no coutry of Nazis as like your country is not full of killers. Your article will not be helpful for friendship between our countries!
52. Stupid Article/Stupid Postings
Wolfgang ,   Vienna/Austria   (10.20.08)
Sorry, but these are very bad generalizations ... This is racism, too! Maybe there where 30.000 peoples, but there are still 6.970.000 people they really dont care about ...
53. Nazis will be Nazis!?
Andreas ,   Graz, Austria   (10.20.08)
That posting is a perfect example for fascism, isn't it? I quote: It's written in their blood... It's part of their genes... Doesn't that remind you of something? It's really sad that this way of thinking seems to never end. No matter how much we should have learned from our (global) history... What really frightens me is the fact that such a statement comes from a memeber of a people that should more than all others on this earth be sensibilized towards fascism and hateful generalization like this... You have learned nothing for sure. It's understood though that this article is written just to provoke reactions like that one. That's plain Propaganda and I still hope most of the readers will be intelligent enough to see that.
54. wrong history
Markus ,   Vienna, Austria   (10.20.08)
As a young Austrian, which's grandfather was prosecuted by Nazis (he was "half-jew"), I am very confused about that article. First of all, Mr.Haider was the (twice elected) governor of a province in Austria - that is the reason, why there was a official "province funeral". At the moment there are about 8 million citizens in Austria and about 600.000 citizens in that province - about 25.000 people where at the funeral (including lots of foreign guests) - What the hell has that to do with AUSTRIA and the "AUSTRIANS"??? Second, in 1938 is historically approved, that the ballot (if Austria should be united with Nazi-Germany), was not an election!! Austria still was occupied by Nazi-German army, when the "Ballot" took place - who thinks, that at any election or ballot in the world one party would get more then 99%???? Third, the WW2 veterans (decorated veterans) TODAY must be at least more than 90 years old!!!!!!! So I ask you: What is your advantage to express the Austrian people as Nazis, whenever it is possible??
55. Thank you, Wolfgang!
Julia ,   Vienna, Austria   (10.20.08)
I totally agree!
56. I'm dissapointed!
Max ,   Austria   (10.20.08)
This general accusation of Austrian remebers me of a very dark part of history of which we are accused not to have learned from!!! Please think before talking, I doubt that u realised that ur article is racist! We are not! Haider is without doubt a very controverse character. I'm not on his politic line but in some ways he was important for our political environment. No doubt that he was often wrong with his statements but he was elected because of that! His style changed and everybody should get a second chance! The way he was in the end was why he and his politics got elected! A lot of Austrians are very unhappy with the actual politics of the big parties, thats why a guy like Haider and his BZÖ were elected also out of protest reasons. So to come to an end...accusing all Austrians as Nazis is very racist and prooves that u haven't learned out of history as well!! Think about that! In the end...everybody who thinks Austria is still Nazi and whatever should come here and look for himself! Don't talk about atuff u have absolutley no idea of!
57. Haider Funeral
Elisbeth Nemeth ,   Eisenstadt, Austria   (10.20.08)
Dear Mr. Klieger, You are certainly right that the funeral of Mr. Haider was a shame for Austria. Still, there are many Austrians who do NOT agree with Haider's party nor what he stood for. Not all of Austria was part of the funeral. I just wanted you to know that there are Austrians who love Israel and the Jewish people. Shalom from Eisenstadt.
58. We have learned nothing?
An Austrian ,   Austria   (10.20.08)
Everybody who distinguishes herself/himself here, has no anticipation of what really happens in Austria. It is strictly forbidden to re-engage in national socialism in Austria, unlike to America and the UK, where ns-hate tirades are widespread through websites. Your criticism against us can only be seconded by your lacking historical education and your lacking ability to have a closer look on the mistakes on your own country makes.
59. 40% of death camp guards were Austrian...
Eyal ,   Tel Aviv   (10.20.08)
Austria also continues to drag its feet on paying compensation to Holocaust survivors. This is a country where in a 1985 poll 50% said the Nazi years were a mix of good and bad. Of course there are many decent Austrians, but they need to learn their country's true history during the war. The Germans have done a lot of soul-searching and repentance for WW2..the Austrians are still not only in denial, but continue to attack and insult those who point out these facts.
60. 40 % of death camp guards were Austrian
An Austrian again ,   Austria   (10.20.08)
We all do know what happened, there is no day where we are not advised of the second word war, so stop to accuse everybody of us being a Nazi. Your fellow countrymen kill people everyday because of fanaticism, and this since several thousand years.
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