......is far from being "correct" , must be "incorrect"

What a great interest you all have in what is happening here . Sad to say , most , if not all of you only want to see one side of the coin . Then called Palestine was divided by a UN general assembly in 1947 . Since then Israel was ALWAYS attacked , by terrorist and regular armies . Is'nt it normal that we defend ourselve ? From 48 to 67 Judea Samaria and Gaza were ruled by Arab states . Did you hear those "palestinians" ask for an independant territory ? Did they receive some rights there ? Where in History was it heard that a country that was attacked so many times , was victorious , has to be the only one to make concessions ? Those are only some general points , the side of the coin you don't [ want to ] see

Not only Norway, even Netherland supports justice: "The year 1948 is known as the year of the Nakba. The word means catastrophe and it describes the exodus of the Palestinians following the establishment of the State of Israel. In fact, Nakba is about more than one historical event; it also refers to the subsequent exile and the sense of loss and alienation that followed: to the longing for a homeland that no longer existed. ‘Palestine 1948: Remembering a past homeland’ presents the recollection of this phenomenon from a Palestinian perspective. The exhibition comprises four sections, connected by the central theme of ‘memory and loss’: the memory of a historical event, a culture and a homeland that was lost. Chronologically, the show starts with historical photos by Khalil Raad (1854-1957). They give a sense of everyday life in Palestine in the 1920s. Memories on film The main section of the exhibition consists of personal stories of Palestinian refugees of 1948. In recently filmed video interviews they tell their personal, often deeply emotional stories, about how they experienced the war, about their escape and about how it feels to be exiled. This material comes from the Nakba Archive, a collective project maintained by international researchers based in Beirut. In recent years numerous interviews have been recorded on video with first-generation Palestinian refugees, currently amounting to around 1,000 hours of video material. The aim is to keep the memory alive of the otherwise poorly documented Nakba and of life in Palestine before 1948. Homeland lost In addition to the Nakba Archive films, the show features contemporary and historical photos. For two years, American photographer Alan Gignoux compiled photos of Palestinian refugees and combined these with contemporary pictures of the precise locations they had left in 1948 in a project entitled ‘Homeland Lost’. In one of his photos, for example, he shows the former mosque in today’s Caesarea, which currently serves as a cafeteria. By juxtaposing Gignoux’s photos with the historical photos of Khalil Raad (1854–1957), the exhibition shows the extent of the change that has taken place in the intervening sixty years. In some cases the past has literally been erased. Visions of the future The video art of the Palestinian Jumana Emil Abboud (b. 1971), a resident of Jerusalem, expresses the longing for a homeland while at the same time raising the issue of the possibility, or impossibility of return. ‘Al-Awda’ (2002) shows a woman wandering in a wood. As in the fairytale, she tries to mark the way back by leaving a trail of bread crumbs. But her journey - a search of a home - is endless: the video shows her going over the same ground again and again in a continual loop. Concert Merlijn Twaalfhoven: Symphony Arabica on 15 May On 15 May the première of 'Symphony Arabica - memory at 1948' will take place in the Lighthal of the Tropenmuseum. In this symphonic project composer Merlijn Twaalfhoven has topmusicians from the Middle-East play together with a large orchestra of professional classical musicians, children, students and Arabic musicians from the Netherlands. Start: 20.30. "

must never be forgotten. Do not ever forget yours. From British archives: "Years ago, the National Archives in Britain, released files revealing the activities of Zionist terrorist groups in pre-1948 Palestine. These included plans to assassinate the British Foreign Secretary. The Stern Gang trained some of its members to assassinate prominent British politicians. The Group included an active member, Yitzhak Shamir, who later became prime minister. Asked if it was possible to achieve national liberation through terrorism, he responded: -The answer is no! If the question is, are terrorist activities useful for the progress of revolution and liberation, the answer is, "yes". One group carried out the assassination of Lord Moyne, the British military commander in Egypt. Another member of a Zionist terrorist group (Betar) Menachem Begin later became prime minister. Begin was responsible in the past for the liquidation of members of the police and the military whose activities have been judged especially worthy of Jewish resentment in Palestine. The group Irgun blew up the British headquarters in the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, killing 91 people and injuring many others. Hazit Ha Moledet carried out the assassination of Count Folke Bernadotte, ( Swedish) a UN envoy. The Revisionist Zionist groups openly stated that the establishment of a Zionist state in Palestine was impossible without violence and the forcible transfer of the indigenous population. The Stern Gang´s goal was a Jewish state on the ENTIRE land of biblical Palestine. Some Zionist terrorist groups negotiated for help from the Italians and later the Germans in driving the British out of Palestine, Stern promised that the new Jewish state would become a German client state. Members met with the Nazi regime representatives and tried to recruit 40,000 Jews from occupied Europe to invade Palestine and defeat the British."

The source in Norway to bring up this issue from the foreign ministers book, is the webnews site www.abcnyheter.no The article is found on http://www.abcnyheter.no/node/77333 The translation in ynetnews is quite good, but with some important deviations in details.

You say it : blew up the British headquarters . But you gorget to tell that the british had been advised to leave 30 minutes before the explosion . What was the british answer : i give orders , not the Jews . With those 91 victims , amongst them many Jewish , as a result . What those groups [ a minority ] said and did , was NOT the policy of the Jewish Agency , they were against most of what Irgun and Stern did and said . Jewish fighters only killed Arabs as a retaliation of murders comitted by Arabs . You don't cite the ambush against a convoy of Jewish medics en nroute to the Mount Scopus hospital , approx 80 murdered . You see only one side , don't [ want to ] see the other . This is only one of your "ommissions"

..I read and learn myself. Knowing and understanding history is the only way to make the best choices today for times to come. We have to make up with our past, not to deny it. ..Interresting to hear about the warnings.

...to judge anybody. What has happened can not be taken away, but I believe in compassion, undisputable common rights for every human. I find it difficult, though, to feel for persons who only feel pity for themselves. We are always part of our own problems and must work to meet the rights and needs of both parts. Here´s a BBC article from the opening of meeting at the borders in 2000: Hundreds of Palestinian refugees have been meeting family members from Israel for the first time in 52 years on the newly demilitarised border between Israel and Lebanon. Palestinian refugees have come to exchange gifts and photographs through the barbed-wire with those who stayed behind, or just to shake hands or touch fingers. Some Palestinians have just come to look There are 350,000 Palestinians living in Lebanon, mostly in miserable conditions in refugee camps. The refugees are mainly from families which fled the northern towns and villages of Palestine - what is now Israel - during the 1948 war. They have been coming to the border wire to exchange messages every day since Israel's occupation of south Lebanon ended on Tuesday night. Half an hour from home In many cases the refugees are meeting brothers, sisters and cousins for the first time. Fakri Awad, aged 45, still lives in the refugee camp in Lebanon where he was born. Others have arranged a rendez-vous with relatives He brought his family to meet their cousins from modern Israel, who live in their ancestral home in Acre. "It's beautiful," said Mr Awad, although he has never seen the town, "and my cousins tell me it's only half-an-hour's drive from here." Ahmad Rabah, 70, telephoned his brother in Acre to arrange a meeting, their first since he left in 1948. His wife is carrying the key of the home they were forced to leave behind. A nephew born in Ain al-Helwa camp near Sidon declares himself very happy to "finally see my uncle who I had long heard of". 'Perfume of Palestine' Israel soldiers patrol the border. They switch easily from Hebrew to Arabic as they tell each side to stay back from the fence. This serves as a reminder of how the Palestinians came to be divided in this way, but their enthusiasm for this novel experience has remained undiminished. "This is the third time I've come here since Wednesday," said Mahumud Abu Shebba, who was born in the Rashidiyeh refugee camp near Tyre. "I came to smell the perfume of Palestine," he added. "It smells so nice." In limbo The Palestinian refugees are widely considered to have the worst lot of all their compatriots - unable to integrate into Lebanese society, without careers, civil rights or passports. Nor are they thought to stand much chance of ever being able to return to the homes they left south of the border half a century ago. In theory all Palestinian refugees are guaranteed a right of return under international law

Tahl, my intentions are neither good or bad, i just wanted to answer to falsely directed cirique towards our foreign minister, and try to explain why no-one thinks this is a domestic issue, not as long as the UN exists. I am sorry i brought nazi germany 1939 into this, it was a rather ironic way to try to say that sometimes one SHOULD meddle into another state's politics before it goes to far. Now i am NOT comparing the israeli state to the nazis. it was a bad comparison. Of course i don't think my country is the moral compass of the world, but thats not even the issue here. Now i'm tempted to say but at leat we are not imperialisticly occupying our neighbours... but i'm not going to Our politicians are not as occupied in this issue as it may seem, there is no ongoing debate on whether we should do anything about it as far as i know, and they do certainly not agree on which "side" to take or bring out any information on the issue. All the information i have on this is results of years of listening to debates inside and outside the media, watching the news (which almost always describe the palestinians as terrorists and leave it with that) and drawing conclutions on my own. It seems like you are under the impression that norwegians in this debate are slaves of our korrupted media, and not grown-up educated people with an eye for what's happening in the world. Adam: Judea and Samaria is as much palestinian as it was 1000 years ago, whatever you call the country. What i am talking about is the land that was given to the israelis after ww2, which by today is greatly expanded and is STILL expanding. And that is what i call occupation. I only mentioned norway as an example of intervention, but you are of course right, it would exist without norway. and as long as the prussians are okay with being polish instead of german, and not being discriminated, i don't think they need to be returned. If someone is the underdog here, it is the palestinians. I am NOT supporting the terrorism they thrive upon the israelis at all, but they are still the underdog. They don't have the military structures or resources to defend themselves against illegal settlements and discrimination. Of course this conflict has come to far. But as long as no part can put old history aside, and as long as the leaders of both people don't want to go into negotiations, and as long as both sides treat eachother as equal human beings there will not be any sollution to this conflict. but of course thats just my opinion. what do i know about you people anyway.

Kristin, You obviously know very little (“you people” – how insulting). Judea and Samaria are NOT “Palestinian” – what is your source for this claim? There has NEVER, at any time, been any independent entity called “Palestine.” There has also NEVER been a separate “Palestinian” Arab identity – this was invented in the 1960’s as a propaganda tool, which, judging by your remarks, seems to have worked. When Egypt occupied Gaza and Jordan occupied Judea, Samaria and the old city of Jerusalem in the years 1948-1967, there was no talk of a “Palestinian” identity, not a movement for “Palestinian” independence. Why do you think that is? Also, it is somewhat laughable to claim that the Arabs, with their oil wealth, are the underdogs here. And what if they were? Is an underdog always right? Israel was no “given” to the Jews after WWII, as you erroneously claim. By the way, the Prussians aren’t OK with it, because they were all ethnically cleansed from Poland at the end of WWII, much as the Sudeten Germans were ethnically cleansed from what was then Czechoslovakia. Where are your howls of outrage, your cries of injustice? And what about the Jewish refugees from Arab lands – do you even know about them? (see below). Hanne, please see the above. Also, as you are so concerned with refugees, why is it that you ignore the fact that there were 850,000 Jewish refugees from Arab lands in 1948 (a greater number than Arab refugees)? Why is that?

That Israel has expanded her territory is right . But only the Arabs are to blame for it . They did'nt accept the partition in 47 , and attacked , lost territory . In 1967 , Egypt by closing the Tyran Strait , declared a war . Lost . Had the Sinai returned , not Gaza , that is'nt occupied anymore by Israelis and you see the results of this . Murders , kidnappings , quassams . In !967 Israel BEGGED Hussein of Jordan not to intervene , not to attack . He did it , lost . So who is to blame if the territory controled by the palestinian authority is not greater ? Not Israel . Where in world history did it happen that a country that was attacked so many times , won all those wars , should be the only to make concessions ? Let's only return to WWII , Germany lost this , and had to give up territory .

In every war there are refugees , people who flee . Those were almost always integrated in their new country , exept the refugees of a war engaged by their brothers , the palestinians . No Arab country wanted to integrate them fully , and this CONTRARY to what happened in the whole world . Think only at what happened after India's independance , how many millions fled from both sides . Do you know that Palestinians in kuwait could only owe 49 % of their business ? Around a same number of Jews , as Arabs who fled Israel , fled from muslim countries . They also left everything behind them . Do they live still live in refugee camps ? They are all FULLY integrated , are 100 % citizens .

lived by the principal: The winner takes it all. Thousends of years later we expect: More sofisticated human values to rule politics. More refined strategies to regulate coexistence with our neighbours. Better tools to measure our efforts to repair damages done in the past. ...than this primitive selfrightousness. Defence will not take you foreward. Looking around for excuses does not help. Building new houses on other peoples birthplaces make nobody happy. Pretending the past did not exist make you all refugees who flee.. ( Adam, go to historical maps on the internet, or, why not in the libraries of Oxford?) You have to deal with consecuenses of the past today. The more you avoid this, the more it hunts you. The ones who own the most owe the most. .....I will take a break from this very interresting arena, thanks to the Y-net and all you others for the debate. Only by talking and thinking we can make progress in changing for the better. We can not afford to lose chances to win respect and recognition from our inner- and outside world.

consequences of the past today . You wrote ,Yes you are right . So look at what i wrote . The consequences of Arab refusal in 1947 / 48 and 67 brought this situation on them today .

is grandmothers: What you steal never makes you rich. On the opposite side she would advise: What somebody took from you, give it to the thieves and it will find its way back to you.

flees as a coward who can't say anything to justify his words , who can't accept that HIS protegees are to blame .

Thanks for your advice Hanne - I know what a library is. I believe I have a greater knowledge on this subject than you. It is interesting to note that you still ignore the issue of Jewish refugees from Arab lands. What about houses built on their birthplace? Where is your outrage? By the way, about 80-90% of so called "Palestinian" refugees have never even been to their so-called "homeland", which begs the question, can someone be a refugee from somewhere they've never been? It is utterly ridiculous - following the same logic, I could call myself a refugee from Russia because my grandparents came from there. And by the way, you haven't answered about the ethnic cleansing of Germans from Poland - where is your outrage? I think that for you, only Israel can be wrong, and you look for any excuse you can to delegitimise the Jewish state. Now don't run away, why not address these issues? Or are they too difficult for you?

Hanne, perhaps this will interest you: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/report_sweden.html

Hanne, clearly you are unable to answer any of the points put to you.

I'm sorry to say that the way Hanne debates on the subject, is how most the Norwegians (and obviously also the Swedish) people behave. I guess you can say it's a Scandinavian trademark: Discuss something, come with arguments (pro/con) - and then, when you have no more arguments - withdraw from the debate - just to continue to read the same propaganda you've always fed yourself with. This way of debating makes the Scandinavians feel better about themselves. And by living in denial - the other part will always be wrong. Even if they lose a debate, they won't change their point of view.

Thanks for this. It's good to see that not all Scandinavians buy into the propaganda. I agree with your description - it's the same in the UK, people express their argument, but when faced with facts and statistics, they withdraw, but are incapable of changing their viewpoint. It's like they say to themselves "I know this person must be wrong, but I can't say why." It's intellectual poverty, I'm afraid.