I'm a religious Jew, and a Zionist. Despite of this I think you are wrong. Your comment is close to Hitler's "ARISCH" propaganda about the purity of nations. If you know the Torah, you probabely remember how many converted "goyim" (GER people) became "bigger Jews" than Jews born from a Jewish mother. Distinguishing between "Jews of birth" and "Jews of choice" is not only racist but it would be against Halacha as well. If your opinion is the mainstream in modern Israel, I will change my intention about doing aliyah because I don't want to be a burden to sabreh "First Class Israelites". It's better to live under anti-Semitic pressure than in a religious fundamentalist country governed by Jewish racists!

You really need to read your own laws preventing Jews from citizenship and land ownership. THATS racist. I assume you know about it? Every country has the right to limit immigration, and if you read Israeli law anyone can apply for citizenship, but only Jews are supposedly expedited under the law of Return. Where did you get your information and why are you not aware of the RACIST Jordanian law???

I'd like to know your sources or such falsehoods? Even UN 242 only allows for refugees from wars, the original 600,000 or so Arabs. Also, living somewhere for 2, only 2 years hardly makes you a refugee. Likewise there are about 850,000 Jewis refugees. Also, like any war it isnt the right to return to where they were. Things change. MILLIONS moved when Pakistan and India split. Millions more moved in eastern Europe. IF you want international law, fine, but dont make up the law. What you are saying just isnt true.

Poland has a law of return - for ethnic Poles. Germany has a law of return - for ethnic Germans. Russia has a law of return - for ethnic Russians. China has a law of return - for Chinese. And Spain, ironically, has a law of return of the ethnic Jews that were expelled from Spain during the Spanish Inquisition centuries ago. Its strange that other countries can have laws of return without you calling them "racist" and Spain can have a law of return for Jews - without being "racist" - but you only accuse Israel of "racism". Jordan doesn't allow Jews to live in Jordan or to own property. The biggest racists on this planet are spelled A-R-A-B-S and M-U-S-L-I-M-S for the past 1400 years.

...oh, that's right...something about some Holocaust or something? The Pogroms? What about the Inquisition? What about all of the other societies throughout the ages and the world who have annihilated the Jews for being....Jews? What about the sudden upswing in violence against Jews on a daily basis in France and Belgium (it does NOT look like it's going to get better)? Israel was created as the last refuge for all JEWS. Outside of the "State of Israel" factor, the LAND of Israel is a G-d given promise to all JEWS. Laws requiring proof of one's loyalty to the "State" over "years" threatens the right of those born Jewish to live here. Loyalty to State? Israel's dictates right or wrong? If that were the criterion, many Israelis would lose their right to citizenship. I personally would have chosen jail over being in an army that threw Jews off of their own land in order to hand it over to the "Palestinians" (for them to destroy it, turn it into a slum and shoot rockets at us from it). Would one have the right of any Democracy, under this new proposed change of law, to dissent against "The State" while still wishing to live as a Jew in the Jewish Homeland?

Israel has a problem with immigration, with social and cultural identity. Russian youths turn neo-Nazi in adolescent rebellion for having been forced to immigrate to Israel, and the Knesset reflexively turns again to the effort to define Who is a Jew according to Halacha. One sect of haredim wrests control of the Rabbinic Conversion Court (salaries paid by the state?!) from another and decides that conversions under the prior haredi leadership for more than a decade are not valid, and are voided. For a multiplicity of reasons from humanitarian to self-serving (cheap labor), Israel absorbs people not Jewish, then awakes one day to a new demographic problem; so today Sheetrit proposes modifying or removing the Law of Return. That the Grandparent Clause of the Law can be so casually targeted as contributing to the problem demonstrates the depth of non-comprehension within the political establishment, if not the intellectual elite of the country, of the nature of Israel as Zionist and the reason the Diaspora created a state for the Jews to begin with. How far we have drifted. A little history might help. At the turn of the twentieth century Jews around the world recognized that Emancipation failed, the Jews were now not only different due to religion, but as a people apart, even supposedly biologically distinct. Secularism didn’t reduce, but reinforced and increased antisemitism. Holocaust was in the air. Jews needed a home of our own, a refuge for those among us seeking refuge from the increasing danger of dispersion in Christendom. The Law of Return was among the first legislated by the new State of Israel; the Grandparent Clause was a direct response to German legislation of the 1930s defining for purposes of discrimination and eventual murder, a Jew as anyone, regardless of present religious confession, as descended from a SINGLE JEWISH GRANDPARENT. The Law and its Clause are the very heart and soul, the reason for being of a state for the Jews. I would like to believe that Israeli politicians, and the state itself, recognizes and understands its importance as refuge to the Diaspora, and that the Law and its Grandparent Clause are the guarantee of that commitment. But in light of efforts over the years in the Knesset to revise the law to conform with Halacha, and so limit Jewish identity to that of a single religious community; in light of the recent efforts by that small sect of anti-Zionists who attempted to nullify all conversions performed by that court over the past ten years (!); to put it mildly, if there is an awareness within the political system of its obligation towards the people, and not just a particular and self-appointed gatekeeper to Jewish identity I, for one, am not confident in the future of our refuge. And if Israel fails, due to political short-sightedness, to protect the institutions defining its Zionist commitment then the state of the Jews will become merely the Jewish state, just another in our community in Diaspora, isolated and incapable of mutual assistance and defense. For more in-depth discussion of this, and other issues of Jewish Denial, visit http://jewishdenial.blogspot.com/

The Sochnut gave ma a list of documents i needed to make Alyah , 8 years ago . I needed a certificate from a Rabbanut , no problem for me , i received this from the Charidi Rabbanut who knew me and my family . But when i came to the ministry of interior here , with all my papers , the clerk told me : you don't need this certificate , "aval im Yesch sheyehe" . Now , regarding giving the Israeli Nationality to FAKE converts , this should not happen . Those self proclaimed Orthodox Jews , who proclaim that yeshua is the messias , they have NO place in this country . They should be EXPELLED for having brought false papers .

Those who provenly have cheaten the State must be expelled. I know many,many cases of christian Romanians who marry Jews an after bring their whole eating pork rural families to live in Israel. I knew ,again a romanian,who lives in Israel for 40 years and work as a tourist guide in Yerushalaim and the man is a catholic antissemit that shocks anyone hearing his speaches to his groups from Romania. It is infindable the examples I can give of no Jews living in Israel ,and it is scaring indeed ,but fortunately Israel is waking up to this almost tragedy that was about to happen to us! Don't let them in anymore and make them go NOW!

You said, "Land of Israel is a G-d given promise to all JEWS." You must have a different Torah than I. Mine says that Eretz Israel is a G-d given promise to all sons of Jacob. That would include all the Northern Kingdom as well. Not just the Southern Kingdom or the sons of Yhudi. I believe my forefather to be Dan. Do I not have a place in Eretz Yisra'el?

Yes, all nations are mixed. Including ours. My point is - enough is enough. You have to draw the line somewhere. There are at least 20% non ethnic Jews in Israel. I think Israel is showing tolerance in abundance - far more than anti-Semitic Hungary. Not respecting the ethnic identity of a group of people is also racism. Claiming that only heterogenous societies are acceptable and homogeneous are not , is the same thing as punishing people for their identity. Most mixed nations of the past that have shown too much tolerance for internal differences have disintegrated and fallen apart because very few things kept them together. Laws of conversion became relevant for rabbis during 2000 years of exile because there was an imminent risk that many Jews would marry non Jews. During biblical times, local Jewish leaders told their Jewish brethren not to marry non Jewish women, and if they were married - they should separate. I am not suggesting that anyone should tell anyone to separate. All I am saying is: either you accept Israel as an ethnic Israelite/Jewish/Hebrew nation state and a national home for the Jewish people and no one else, or do not live here. Liberalism embraces freedom of choice. If I want to live this way - it is my right. I am not threatening anyone - I just want people around the world to respect and accept the prerequisites and foundations of our ethnic identity. We are not a sick social experiment for bringing the entire world into our homeland. We want to bring our brothers and sisters home. If we want a goyim land, we could have stayed in the diaspora.

Quote :” Only after proving, over the course of a few years, their ties to the Jewish people, knowledge of the Hebrew language and loyalty to the State, will the immigrants receive Israeli citizenship.” YES. That is a good standard.

Anyone who looks at what I write--dismantling Christianity and Islam and bringing Christians to Torah INSTEAD OF Jews to NT--180 degrees opposite to Christianity and Islam--and still tries to convince people that I am Christian is either illiterate, retarded or a hate-driven, ranting, racist crank. When a pork-eating atheist defender of Euro-Christians (in many other articles) calls an Orthodox rabbinate-recognized Jew and critic of Christians "a Christian," it's conspicuous who's the liar and fool. Note that those who attack me with baseless ad hominems are pork-eating atheists, Christians, sodomists and superstitious slanderers; none offer quotations, all refuse to "man up" and identify themselves, demonstrating that they cannot dispute the content of my arguments. The Orthodox rabbis, beit din documents and Orthodox synagogue (Moreshet Avot, Ra'anana) in which I have been a member in good standing for more than a decade certify me as a Jew. Then Chief Rabbi Mordekhai Eliyahu wrote me, via his personal assistant, extending his wishes for blessings and success to me -- in response to my letter laying out exactly who I am and what I'm doing. A copy of the letter is in included in my book, "Who Are the Netzarim?" which anyone can purchase and see for himself or herself. No Christian missionaries--or atheists--ever received such a letter. Everyone who thinks ANY anonymous slanderer outranks the Orthodox rabbis--including the Chief Rabbi, beit din and beit k'nesset... follow him and see where you wind up! Orthodox Jews are Israel, the Bride of ha-Sheim. We answer to Halakhah and the Orthodox Jewish Beit Din; NOT to demands of Christians (or other gentiles), pork-eating atheists, sodomists and the like. Torah describes the born-Jew who eschews the b'rit: Esau. A twin of Yaaqov--born of the same mother, who became Yisraeil, Eisau was expelled from the House of Yitzkhaq and became NOT a Jew but the patriarch of the Edomite Arabs. (Edom is a cognate of "red" referring to the meal of red lintels he accepted in place of his inheritance.) One of the best known Edomite Arabs in history was King Herod, whose followers were called "Herodians" in the NT. An atheist blaming G-d for the Holocaust has rejected the b'rit Torah--the definition of misojudaism. He rejected the b'rit for nothing (except perhaps pork or lobster). Putting belief in the absence of god before ha-Sheim is no less idolatry than putting belief in a rival god before ha-Sheim; a misojudaic meshumad no less than Jews for J*sus. Because he far exceeds Jews for J*sus in his rejection of Judaism, he is inferior to any self-respecting Jews for J*sus. Not only that, he persists that Christians really love you so not to worry; just like preceding the Shoah. Look what that voice cost you and you still put up with it. Everyone has neshamah (breath or "soul"); but only a Torah-keeper has a "Jewish" neshamah, which is, by definition, Judaic--the b'rit of Torah. Defining oneself as a Jew with a non-Jewish neshamah is either a fool's contradiction or blatant racism. Blaming "G-d" for the Holocaust, instead of the evil men who were responsible, Charles has also frequently slandered Judaism, Orthodox rabbis and even former Chief Rabbis. He epitomizes why so much of the world hates Jews: an atheist hate-monger spewing racist bile and slander who claims to be one of the people "Chosen by G-d." No wonder it infuriates decent people in so much of the world! Many of my friends suffered family losses in the Shoah. But none turned into a hateful, blameshifting, racist. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Orthodox Jew (Teimani Baladi Dardai) Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

i was born to a jewish father and non jewish mother ,so what i lived 21 years here, i did not come to israel for economic reasons but to live with my people why should the orthodox dictate who is a jew .

this law is not racist. this is a JEWISH COUNTRY!!!!! THE REAL RACISTS ARE ALL ARAB MUSLIM COUNTRIES THAT DO NOT ALLOW ANY JEWS all over the world OR ISRAELI jews to be citizens of these countries, own property, travel to and become citizens of these countries. examples are dubai, uae, lebanon,syria, jordan, iran, bahrain, arab emirates, egypt, iraq, qatar, and multitudes of all muslim arab countries. ALL OF THEM DO NOT ALLOW ANY JEWS TO BECOME CITIZENS. NONE, NONE AT ALL! also, some of these countries like saudi arabia do not allow jews in or israelis and do not let anyone christian or jew to bring in bibles, to build churches or synagogues and do not have respect for nay other religion and judaism and christianity is FORBIDDEN TO BE PRACTICED BY LAW!!!!!! is this not racism????????????? on the other hand, israel has a big amount of christians, arabs, palestinians, jehuva witnesses, druz, arab, muslims, samaritans, etc... that live in peace and for whom israel allows without a doubt, freedom of tgheir religion, freeedom to practice their religion, to pray, to assemble, to demonstrate, to call for prayer. many mosques are built in israel as many churches are built as well. everyone in israel, jew, muslim and christian can prac tice their religion without harrassment at all. unlike in arab countries. there are many christians and muslims in israel and under its democracy they are FREE! they also have citizenship from the israeli government and are residents of israel in the full meaning of the word with religious rights and with national rights!!!!!!! will you say that the law of return is still racist???? every country has the RIGHT to accept or reject anyone based on their needs and nationality and religion. especially israel that is based on judaism with freedom for any minority in its midst. arabs and christians live much happier and free lives under israel government and have a much better economic and religious situation in jewish israel than they would have in any arab country! israel is not racist. it is jewish.

Quote :” Only after proving, over the course of a few years, their ties to the Jewish people, knowledge of the Hebrew language and loyalty to the State, will the immigrants receive Israeli citizenship.” YES. That is a good standard.

The point I was making was that there is no minimum proof of jewishness. Thats why so many get through. I mentioned a guy from ulpan all the proof they asked for was a photograph of him standing by the grave of a woman he claimed was his grandmother although he had no proof of that. Anybody can say I am jewish and go have a photograph taken of themselves standing next to a gravestone and claim its a relative but have no proof of it. I was asked to produce all kinds of documents to proove the fact I was jewish. There is a law that grants jews citizenship but because there are no minimum standard to proove your jewish then the system doesn't work. Its not about are you jewish its about prooving your jewish.

from the post of #42, some of the hatefulness to sample: illiterate retarded hate-driven ranting racist crank pork-eating atheist liar fool Christians sodomists superstitious slanderers misojudaic meshumad Esau Edomite Arabs hateful blameshifting racist yes, who are the netzarim? nobody is sure but here's their leader in all his glory. nice.

Calling your self "David"do not make you jew."Believe"that your forefather was Dan do not make you a Jew. And stop this stupidity of writing Israel "Yisra'el".This is BS;GOY BS! We are Israel or Yisrael and we don't need * ' * to be added to our name. GET OUT YOU CHEATER!

why are there so few comments about non Jews, who wanted to convert, who are for Israel, support Israel and are not allowed to become a citizen? you mostly talk about negative experiences, but shut out the positive. Mixed couples have children, they will grow up as Jews and are there for the country.But you push everyone away! Talking about all the Russians Israel wanted and also needed in the country. sure some were under the impression it was a land of milk and honey, but it's not!For people who decided to come and live in Israel it will also be a sacrifice (they decided they would make).For Jew and non Jew, love is always stronger and will prevail. I agree with learning Hebrew, loyality and living in Jewish communities and intergration, I don't agree changing the law to these extreme restrictions.

As a former Soviet Jew, who returned to his ancient homeland 20years ago, I declare that the State of Israel deceived us. We were promised that despite all difficulties and dangers of living in Israel, we will have two major advantages: no more antisemitism and no more mixed marriages - we shall have Jewish grandchildren. At first I thought that it was true. But several years later it seemed as if I never emigrated: not once did I and my relatives hear "dirty Zhid" from Russian drunkards who hold the Israeli citizenship. These people hate the Jews and Israel (even if they serve in the Israeli army and pay taxes) and they don't hide this hatred. As for the second promise, children of my two cousins married here non-Jews. Was it worth to come to the Jewish state to get non-Jewish grandchildren?! Mr. Sheetrit, go ahead, change the Law of Return for the benefit of real, not fake Jews! But I am afraid it's too late. I really feel deceived.

"There are at least 20% non ethnic Jews in Israel..:" According to Jewish Religious Law there is no difference between Jews born from a Jewish mother and Jews converted to Judaism. The distinction "Jewish by Birth" and "Jewish by Choice" is against the Torah, against human rights, and is a minority opinion of some racist Jews! Every Jew (including a convert who is 100% Jewish!) has the right to live in Eretz Israel. Yes, I agree: Israel is a Jewish State by its character, i.e. it's a home for all עם ישראל ... including those who are "second class Jews" in your eyes, but not in the eyes of our rabbis. Go and study Torah, as well Talmud and you will find the real answer! Yes, Europe is anti-Semitic, including Hungary. You know WHY? Because of such racist Jews like you are!

what halacha?? reform does not accept jewish law.

the custodians of jewish law are people who are jews and follow jewish law.once you have non-jews or people who don't follow jewish law trying to determine jewish law you have a grave problem.

Racism means hatred for a group of people. I hate no one. Don't put words in my mouth. Suggesting that ethnic homogeneous identity is "racist" is itself a racist statement because it discriminates the fact that a group of people is homogeneous. Second, anti-Semitism has nothing to do with me, even though I feel honored that I can wield so much power for 2000 years of Jew hatred. The mixed Jews that live in Israel can stay - but in my and in many eyes of ethnic Jews - they are still mixed. I am not saying that they are worse or better human beings -I'm just saying that they are not purely Jewish. And therefore I do not entirely identify myself with them - and that is my right - if we accept Liberalism and individual rights - including freedom of thought and freedom of expression and maintaining one's own identity. Enforcing your paradigm on us ain't very Liberal. I don't have to study and read the Talmud to know that Judaism defines a Jew as anyone born to a Jewish mother. This ain't exactly any news. But you seem to be suffering from amnesia. Those rules were a result of the diaspora as Talmud Bavli and Talmud Yerushalmi were written by rabbis - not by God - by rabbis, during the lack of centralization of Jewish political power and lack of Jewish nationhood(nationhood as in state/country). You are fooling yourself. A Converted Jew cannot become an ethnic Jew, no matter what a piece of text says. Obeying a piece of text without questioning it is not very intellectual. Converts can never be a part of the Cohanim or the Priesthood according to Judaism. A Jew is first and foremost an ethnic/tribal unity. Religion comes second. The ancient Israelites/Hebrews were pagans. Importing the entire world and converting them to Judaism would destroy the nation of Am Israel. We Jews/Israelis are not interested in a sick social experiment bringing all ethnicities and cultures to Israel - we want our brothers and sisters back home. We don't want to bring home pseudo-Jews that look everything but Jewish or pray to God, without being loyal to Am Israel. Gavriel, I suggest you stay out of Israel. I don't think you personally belong here. You are a messenger that has forgotten the message. We are not multicultural, multiracial sick social experiment to bring Converts from all over the world - we are a nation. Bringing half the world would make our nationhood superfluous. You show a good dose of hypocrisy - on one hand you show uncompromising support for one definition of Jewishness and claims you fight for "human rights" and on the other hand you completely discard other definitions of Jewishness. In what way would a ethnically homogeneous Jewish nation pose a threat to you or the world? You must be very mentally unstable if you believe that our identity poses a threat. Yes indeed, we are Am Israel - that excludes ethnic Russians, Africans, Asians and Europeans. We, the Hebrews/Israelites - we are Am Israel. I am no more racist than you Gavriel or nay other European individual or nation for that matter. Israel is not a Disney Land Club were we can bring in everything and everybody. As I said earlier - 20% of Israel's population is ethnically non Jewish. We have enough non Jews. Enough is enough and denying us the right of self determination is indeed very racist dear Gavriel.

In your talk back you wrote "Israelis hate olim"? I suggest you READ my comment and stop playing dumb. There is no word of hate in my talk back. I specified Jewish identity - as I see it, and I also specified loyalty to Israel. Bringing in every half Jew in the world and bringing in every Jew married to a goy would destroy Israel - don't you understand that? If you general laws and regulations - they have to apply for everybody. The very moment you say that Jews can bring their non Jewish spouses with them we will even more non Jews. Jews in the diaspora have to make a choice. Its as simple as that. Only because they want mixed marriages does not mean that we have tolerate having these goyim here in Israel. There must be a place where we can feel at home dear Gavriel Feeling at home makes me "racist"? Fine, then all nations on this planet are racist. Denmark has imposed a law that says that even though Danes have married non Danes and want to bring them to Denmark, the non Danes cannot become Danish citizens. Now why is that? Because the Danes ALREADY have too much foreigners - just like us - and the Danes - just like us - don't want more foreigners. We want olim Gavriel - yes - we want Yehudim - lo goyim.

First of all... Being a "blood-Jew", I won't ask for your permission to make aliyah! Second: As I see you don't respect Talmud, because you suggest me not to believe in "historic diaspora papers", i.e. you are NOT a religious Zionist either but a racist one! (You may dislike this term, of course) According to Mishna even Avraham and Sarah were "converts". So better go back to the elementary school or to the yeshiva to refresh "your studies" According to your sick philosophy, neither Rivka, nor King David can be considered "First Class Blood Jews", right? You can ask all the rabbis in Israel or anywhere else, they will tell you the same: a "ger tzedek", i.e. a converted person, is 100% Jewish. There is no "more-Jew" and "less-Jew", there is only a Jew. Who the hell are you to judge other people's heritage and family backgrounds? Go to live to Meah Shearim, close the door after yourself, and than you can stay with your "blood Jews" only! I agree that citizens who are not loyal to the State of Israel (especially if their anti-Israel acts can be legally proved!) must be put to the Court, however I think it would be a big shame for Israel if its fallen soldiers those who are not Jewish according to (Ortodox) Jewish Law could not be buried, after having given their lives for the Jewish State, because of the simple reason that the cemeteries are under control of a racist religious oligarchy. Don't worry, if Israel goes into "your" direction, Diaspora Jews won't go there and you can stay with your Arab friends in "perfect harmony". Hitler was always talking about BLOOD JEWS, let's use his term as it looks like you stay on his platform of "arische Ideologie"! Reading again and again your talkbacks, I can assure you that neither converts nor "first class blood Jews" (like me), will give up their diaspora existence just in order to live in a "Kahane State" you are dreaming of! May G_d save Israel from becoming a second Iran! And please, spare yourself the answer... I won't waste my time for coming back to read about your paranoia

not to mention a hypocrite. In order to prove that you indeed are an "ethnic Jew" as you call it you'd have to look 50 generations back and make sure that your paternal ancestors resided in the territory of the kingdom of Judea, but even that wouldn't be enough as the land was inhabited by Edomites, Phoenicians, Roman garrison troops and representatives of many other ethnic groups. So in order to be a pure "ethnic Jew" by your definition you need to prove that your paternal line is descended from patriarch Jacob. Good luck with that. Ethnic identity had always been a matter of cultural affinity rather than genetic one, for instance, you can find Poles that genetically can be considered Belorussians or Ukrainians yet they and their environment consider themselves Polish because they speak the Polish language and in some cases even follow Roman Catholicism. The notion of self identification, which you empower yourself with and deny others, is the central pillar of one's ethnic identity. We, as Jews are connected by our language, values, common beliefs and culture on a far grander scale than by blood.

Perhaps you could refrain from being anti-Christian, anti-atheist and anti-homophobic on these pages. I seem to manage to be non anti-semitic...so do try it. Oh, and pork is very nice - G-d hasn't yet smote me down for eating it so it can't be too awful! And finally, oh Offensive One, I live in London, not about to be Londonistan - we like our beer and bacon too much and are too lazy to get up early to pray. Peace be with you all.

Seriously... where is the ADL, the AJC, B'nai B'rith or Progess by Pesach, speaking out against this racism and xenophobia??? Or is it just that illegal immigrants aren't acceptable in Israel, but you demand they be allowed to over run the US, destabilize and drag down the wages of Americans? Tell me, is it that you really don't love the stranger, it's just an excuse because you hate your American Christian neighbors?

No blessings from Rav Elyahou , only a polite formula by his assistant . You are'nt Jewish . NO TRUE ORTHODOX Jew accepts your Yeshua as a messias . TRUE JEWS are still awaiting The MASHIACH . I never hailed the christian church as a whole , AGAIN A BIG LIE from this self proclaimed jew [ no capital for this goy ] . I always said that there were GREAT Christians who saved Jews . Another lie : i NEVER SLANDERED Judaism , only the action of some religious people . As a secular TRUE JEW , how can i blame a god who does not exist for me . Go you and eat your pork . The kitchen at my home is KOSHER . Regarding sodomist , also always in you mouth , you are one ?