the supreme court acted rightfully. thos religious people makes me sick, racists bastardes, jews r not the only one who eat kosher food(gods knows y) so no need for foolish behavior like this.

Believe me; I have nothing, absolutely nothing against Christians; some of our best supporters; and dear lovely people; but Jews for Jesus gives me a stomach ache and they do proselytize and are wackier than bondafide Christian holy-rollers. Once they believe in Jesus they stop being a Jew for me. Believing in Jesus is not in the Torah which makes it NOT KOSHER. They killed us "in the name of Jesus" so what business do Jews have to include Jesus in their Jewish lives? I'd feel better if it were Jews for Buddha if they really feel that Ha'Shem is not enough for them.

The (non-religious) courts have no business involving themselves in religious issues. It is not their domain and they have no business making rulings in these areas. The certification of a business as kosher cannot be given to someone who professes contempt for the Jewish religion; they are not trustworthy since they do not believe in the Halachic system. That the courts compel the rabbinate to give them a kosher certification is beyond absurd. This is just another case of how the secular system is eager to undermine any attempt to make Israel into a truly Jewish state.

Everywhere in the country we have kosher Arabic hotels, supermarkets, bakeries and so on. Even ultra-orthodox rabbi's come there. So what's the difference???????????

She can have the certificate, but cannot force observant Jews to give her their custom, so she is screwed.

All it invokes, instead, is memories of centuries' worth of persecution and forced conversion. Jews for Jesus is a Christian Evangelist Church in *all* but name, made up of Jewish converts to Christianity - they deliberately retain a supposedly "Jewish" name as part of a core belief that all Jews must be converted to Christianity. In short, their very definition as Jewish is subterfuge. Hence, I fail to see how such a person can be seen as trustworthy from Judaism's point of view, especially when Kashrut is a Jewish religious requirement. Does the bakery-owner give the clients sermons about how Kashrut leads to Jesus, like JfJ do when talking about Jewish holidays?

and the first chritians were also jewish. so get over what they brain washed you since a infantcy.

Ignorant Israeli journalists must stop calling these people "Messianic Jews" because all Jews are messianic. Belief in the Messiah is a Jewish idea, one of the 13 Principles of Faith. "Messianic Jew" is a deceitful, misleading term. These people are Apostate Jews, converts to Christianity and should so be called.

I still wouldnt go near her warped establishment and nor would most decent jews here. She makes money for missionaries and detecting the weak among us, and then these vultures crawl in.

things than the peacefull Apostate Jews, so get real.

In the 1st century C.E., the rabbis prohibited Jews from interacting with gentiles on any level ("Gentile," EJ, 7.410-412). "The first-century philosopher Euphrates is quoted by Philostratus (Life of Apollonius of Tyana 5.33) as noting that the Jews do not mingle with others in common meals, libations, prayers or sacrifices" (Louis H. Feldman, Jew & Gentile in the Ancient World; Princeton: Princeton Univ. Press, 1993, p. 128). "Jews, ironically, welcomed others into their midst as proselytes – but only on their terms" (Feldman, p. 126). These terms were a special transitional non-gentile-but-not-yet-Jew status, geir, developed in order to enable non-Jews to interact in the Jewish community in order to learn Torâh. Geirim, though not yet Jews, weren't classified as gentiles. Source : www.netzarim.co.il History Museum (left menu) :Benei Noakh (top menu) The extensive research in the above link clearly shows the first century Halakhah of the issue of partaking in bread, baked by a person not included in the Jewish community (as a geir or yehudi).) To you Christians and "Messianics" reading this, who proclaims that you want to follow the first century Ribi Yehoshua from Nazareth (including the mentioned baker in the article): you must first do a comprehensive research on the above website, and then start living as he and his followers Netzarim did, which leads you into practicing Torah and Halakhah non-selectively with a sincere heart. That's the way for all of you Christians and "Messianics" to undertake if you want to become kasheir (kosher) to socialize with the Jewish community, to take part of the Torah-teachings and prayers of a beit-hakneset (orthodox synagouge), and kasheir to live in Israel. Anders Branderud Geir Toshav, Netzarim

Not as an actual religion. It was at most a splinter movement within Judaism that soon left to seek greener pastures to spread its Good Word. Since then the distinction between Christianity and Judaism have been obvious and quite clear - and in *this* case, the woman claims to be Jewish (religiously, not merely by birth!) while holding a set of beliefs that are clearly Christian. The insistence of her sect to actively try to convert Jews to Christianity under a veil of "the real Jews" should not be fought. They are not Jews, and have left Judaism a long time ago.

The problem here is *not* the fact that she is not a Jew, but the fact that she is a Jew who converted to Christianity but calls her self a "real Jew". We had people like that in the past, in the middle-ages - the Jews who sought the acceptance of Christian society to such an extent that they led the call for forced conversion. It is her continued subterfuge, as part of the official policy of the "Jews for Jesus" Christian Evangelist Chuch, that led to the Kosher certificate refusal. This is a group whose official purpose is to convert all Jews to Christianity, who take Jewish traditions and holidays and twist their content to make them look Christian to those unfamiliar with them... so yes, there's every reason not to give her a Kosher certificate.

you feel insecure in your belief to think that way, and you wrong the early jews used to practice it in hiding in catacombs, and they were also exiled with other jews, they never left their jewish heritage, it's jews like you who ignore one of the main leaders that existed 2000 years ago in Israel, the history of jews in Israel(before the exile) stopped in his crucifixion without you ever knowing y.

The press has to understand that just because somebody calls themself a Jew, it does not make them Jewish. The so-called "Messianic Jews" are Christians who practice some Jewish customs. Because they believe that Jesus is/was the messiah, then they are by definition Christians. There is no such thing as a Jew who believes that JC is the son of G-d. Anybody who believes that is by definition a Christian. These Christians disguise themselves as Jews in order to carry out conversions of Jews to Christianity, a hate-filled, despicable and evil practice to anybody who is not a Christian.

The Rabbinate did not say she couldn't have the certificate. They DID say she would need a full time kashrut supervisor who would have the keys to the business. That is general policy in the US ( and most likely with the Arab businesses that are kosher) An owner who is considered "personally not trustworthy--to maintain the strict standards needed for the certificate, nothing else) is required to have a full time supervisor and not personally have the keys to the business. It shouldnt' be such a big deal. Problem here is she wants it HER way or no way!

Yes,a goy can be owner of a kosher place,but must have herscher and a mashguiach shomer shabat and with irat shamaim at the place full time. But at this case,she's making missionary activity at her bakery,so is a treif bakery and people should not go there and the rabinate is complete right in taking off herscher.

I'm not Jewish (neither am I Xian or Messianic) but eat Kosher whenever I reasonably can. Kosher is meant for everybody, but I must be confident that the hechure recipient is reliable. My experience is that Jews for Jebus are NOT honest. Further, I cannot be sure that the food has not been blessed in the name of a foreign god.

Once again the court steps in where it has no business or expertise. I call upon the rabbinate to ignore the court and carry about kashruth according to strict halacha and not according to a left wing misguided and overblown court system

again no money no honey. he he he he

The Supreme Court over-stepped its authority. A Kashrut certificate is given by people knowledgable in Kashrut. The Supreme Court is not guided by Jewish law. When a customer looks for a kashrut cetificate, she expects it to be backed by Jewish law not by a Supreme Court justice that enjoys his bacon before getting to work in the morning. Supreme Court-issued kashrut certificates equals consumer fraud. Substantively, the court is correct that a non-Jew (which includes all people for Jesus) can get a kashrut certificate but each individual case needs to be handled differently by the religious authority that issues the certificate. If you have a non-Jew that is openly hostile to Jewish law (such as all Jews for Jesus are) they need a 24 hour kashrut supervisor on premises. If bakery woman wants to pay for a 24 hour mashgiach she can get a certificate.

Who cares? Anyway we are all going to hell.

Give her the Kashrut certificate , but tell ALL the TRUE Jews , seculars included , not to buy there . I , even with her Kashrut certificate , would no buy there . She is not Jewish at all , True Jews don't believe in her messias .

The very name is an oxymoron - you cannot be Jewish if you believe in Jesus - that's one of the basic definitions of the Jewish faith since Christianity became its own religion. This behavior by the "Jews for Jesus" organization is criticized by Jews and Christians alike, in that their aggressive conversion tactics toward Jews aren't acceptable anymore to most Christians. As for "early Jews", I presume you mean "early Christians"? They were hardly the only splinter sect of Judaism back in the day, but this sect simply went beyond being a splinter group - it left Israel, spread across a vast non-Jewish populace, evolved... and that's that. Jesus was *not* one of the major leaders in Roman-occupied Judea. He was, at best, just another small sect leader out of many, with the added complication of making himself noticed by Roman imperial officials as a potential source of dissent. And to say that the history of the Jews in pre-Exile Judea ended with his death is laughable. The history of the pre-Exile Judea didn't even end with the fall of the Second Temple - it ended with the failure of Bar Kochba's rebellion, who was himself yet another claimant to the title Messiah.

It's about trust. There used a time when Jews lived in small communities spread everywhere, and were mostly more religiously observant - and thus more familiar with the Kashrut laws. The butchers, shopkeepers, tavern-owners and the like, were trusted to keep these laws for the benefit of their community depending on how the community viewed them. Trustworthiness would thus be a direct aspect of community life and standing. Nowadays things are different. Many people are not familiar with Kashrut laws, and with the industrialization and globalization of food production it is often cheaper to produce with non-Kosher products to have a bigger profit margin. It has become a matter of *verifying* trust. That's what the Kashrut certificate is all about, trust. It's a sign for Jews who observe Kashrut, saying "We trust this person not to sell you non-Kosher food." The Rabbinate is thus the middle-man for this task, a middle-man that provides us with the service of trust. And I, for one, am not capable of understanding this demand of certifying someone as trustworthy when she is not even honest about her beliefs!

Yes, 1st-century C.E. Torah-teaching Pharisee Ribi, Yehoshua, is the only candidate who can ever satisfy many Scriptural criteria. But it's also true that the Christianized "version" of Paul and goyim after 135 CE is their Hellenized, idolatrous, Zeus-image, NOT the historical Pharisee Ribi, Yehoshua. Simply switching the name of the post-135 C.E. Hellenist Roman Christian idol to the historical Jewish name doesn't metamorphose the Hellenist Romans' adaptation of Zeus (see "Iesous" in the History Museum of our website) to the polar opposite historical Pharisee Ribi. Nor does selectively keeping parts of Torah--which is a constructive rejection of the parts not selected--constitute "keeping Torah." Arrogating the Jewish name and appearances deceives you and others. Pnina, I renounced Christianity, converted (Orthodox) and now pray in a Teimani beit k'nesset--Moreshet Avot, where my wife and I are accepted as Orthodox Jews in good standing, because the Teimani reflect the most pristine reflection of the Torah handed down to Mosheh at Har Sinai--which is what Ribi Yehoshua taught if he was the Mashiakh and what Dead Sea Scroll 4Q MMT demonstrates any historically accurate Pharisee Ribi or rabbi would have taught. Hellenism was an anathema to the Pharisees during the lifetime of Ribi Yehoshua. In short, you left the most pristine reflection of both Har Sinai--AND the authentic Ribi Yehoshua--to be deceived into following a Hellenist Roman counterfeit... wait for it... idol. "No man can follow two masters"; particularly when they're 180 degrees antithetical and mutually exclusive. You can't follow Roman-Hellenist idolatry AND follow Torah-teaching Pharisee Ribi Yehoshua. You must choose. You're not following Ribi Yehoshua until you make teshuvah to Torah/Halakhah. If you will do so you will be accepted again to pray in a Teimani beit k'nesset. I urge you to restore follow the authentic Ribi Yehoshua and make teshuvah to Torah and Halakhah and restore your relationship in the Teimani community. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah Jew (Orthodox Teimani Baladi Dardai) Advocate for Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

Hashem sent Yeshua his son to make atonement for our sins in perfect fulfillment of Messianic prophecies. His chosen people, the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob can not recognize the truth of it . Continue to pray for spiritual awakening.

Go back to America and stop spouting your Christian nonsense!

AND THIS IS WHY A RABBANUT HECHSHER IS WORTHLESS.

In Tzarist Russia, there was in many communities a "rav metaam"- one who was appointed by the government-and subservient to it----but nobody relied on their piskei halachot......