If you would agree that she has been misled and deceived then you should be able to understand that she can be perfectly honest in stating her beliefs and you shouldn't accuse her of dishonesty. Halakhah and the rabbis still recognize her as a Jewess, albeit a meshumedet (female apostate). That's why many tb-ers refer to her, accurately, as an apostate. She doesn't realize, and doesn't believe, that she is apostate. She needs to be shown that, with Scripture and historical documentation. She need only make teshuvah to Torah and halakhah to restore herself and receive kipur. Slandering her with false accusations doesn't help. Understanding would be more helpful if your objective is to help her return to the fold. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah Jew (Orthodox Teimani Baladi Dardai) Advocate for Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

B"H This is truly absurd! Civil court system has no business in judging on halachic issues. Rabbinate should refuse, they are under Hashem, not under the "high" court.

Jewish law clearly requires constant checking by a Jewish authority when a non-Jew is cooking for it to be considered kosher. Shulchan Aruch, Yoreh Deah, 69:10. Even the most lenient opinions require Jews to at least initiate the cooking process. What designates a Jew? Someone who has accepted the mitzvot and does not abrogate them. Additionally, Israeli courts are dominated by secularist ideologues who refuse to work within the law of their own courts.

please use the correct term - a jew who accepts christianity is not a "messianic jew" but a "christian"!

Jesus was born in Israel from a Jewish family. He is a Jew. His followers were Jews. Christian is just a name for His followers. So people who have a problem with Mesianic Jews have a problem with Jesus the Jew. Evil people do evil things in the name of Christ. So evil men are to blame, not Jesus. Jesus' message was not hate but love one another. Someone who murders Jews in the name of Christ is evil. So don't condem Christ and his true followers. Jesus IS the true Messiah to the Jews and to the Gentiles. He and his followers were rejected then by evil men and murdered, just like today his followers are discriminated against and hated and killed and slandered. What did Jesus do about his murder? He said Father forgive them, they know not what they do when he was dying. He didn't tell his followers to go kill the Jews. God is Love. He sent His Messiah and He is not without rejection from his own people and the world.

I'm Jewish and I definitely don't believe in the Messiah, or that eventually the Messiah will come forth and redeem the whole world. A lot of rubbish, and I do believe in the Tanach and in G-d. These people are definitely not Jewish.

often with my granddaughter. I've talked to Pnina on a dozen occasions. She's told me about how she came to be a baker, how she came to Israel and about past and present business experiences. Her croissants were tasty and she had a marvellous array of sweet goods. The only thing I would criticize is that the price was on the high side. Service by her and her staff was always attentive and friendly. On no occasion did she ever speak about her religious interests and this, reading in JPost and YNet, is the first I've ever heard about it. When I return this winter to Israel, I plan to take my granddaughter there again for croissants and coffee (she dips hers in as she's not old enough to actually drink coffee).

Some of these tb's would be hilarious, were they not so sad. What if the Creator of every last one of us couldn't care less about anybody's good book or religion, what we call ourselves, where we live and whether or not we ever pray, but only how we treat each other? The idea of an Almighty God overlooking our arrogance trying to explain the inexplicable, expound on the unknowable and how we go after each other when we disagree, but instead gets bent out of shape over who eats what - other than too much - is too frigging funny. Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees....

I'll believe in the tooth fairy, leprecons, unicorns, big foot, dragons, mermaids, gargoyles and genies before I buy the loaded nonsense of the Christian bible. We Jews are a "thick necked people" meaning that by default, we do not believe what we are told; especially illogical things.

Your Christian beliefs dangle from the erroneous assumption that your book superseded the Tan"kh--though Tan"kh prohibits any such eventuality. No Messiah could POSSIBLY teach contradictory to Torah. Such a teaching would be the furthest thing from perfect. So your religion is based on a book you yourself believe is wrong. You don't see the contradictions? There is a long list of such contradictions in my first book (see our website). Torah teaches that there is no possibility of kipur without a preceding repentance of any and all transgressions of Torah. Torah also teaches that, with or without the Messiah, those who do their utmost to keep Torah have kipur and those who don't do their utmost to keep Torah have no possibility of ANY kipur--again, with or without the Messiah. As for the Christian "version," Jesus, that's purely a Hellenist Roman perversion, an idol. Read up on the history of the period and trust ha-Sheim--His Tan"kh--instead of your pastor or Sunday School teacher. Study our website, particularly our History Museum. And before you pray, straighten yourself out relative to Prov. 28.9. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah Jew (Orthodox Teimani Baladi Dardai) Advocate for Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

Thick-necked??? Don't you mean thick-headed?

another one . And talking about "deceiving" , this is HIS speciality . "ministry of absorption" "Orthodox Jew" are only two of his specialities . Oh , yes . He try to make us believe he is a convert , but can't give any name of a TRUE Rabbi who would confirm this LIE .

A kashrut hechsher is delivered by a rabbinic authority if kashrut is supervised on site : - either by the Torah abiding owner; - either by a mashgiah if the owner is not a Torah abiding Jew or a Goy. In this case, the owner is not a Torah abiding Jew and does refuse to hire a mashgiah, so the rabbinical authority HAS to refuse the hechsher according to jewish law and custom. It seems, this christian person of jewish background does just want to make trouble and found a good ally in the israeli justice system. Such a thing could not happen in Canada.

Your message is the hoot; it's sad and shallow. The universe reflects its Creator, and the universe operates on perfectly orderly and unfathomably intelligent laws; not capriciously. Similarly, did not place us in that universe capriciously. Nor are we capriciously without purpose. Nor would such an intelligent and orderly Creator place each of us here unaware of our purpose, uniquely and fully. Nor would such a Creator place us in an intractable situation without guidance for those who seek it. Only one "Life Manual" has stood the test of millennia. Contradictions of it (supersessions and displacement theologies) cannot be logically valid or legitimate. It's the Torah Way, or else (read the future of ALL goyim in Tan"kh). Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah Jew (Orthodox Teimani Baladi Dardai) Advocate for Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

21% Protestants. 16% Baptists. 13% Charismatics & Pentecostals. American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) 2008 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/documents/aris030609.pdf?sid=ST2009030900856 Which of the thick-headed are you? Below the thick-headed atheists (31%)? Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah Jew (Orthodox Teimani Baladi Dardai) Advocate for Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

The Rabbinate to issue Konforti a certificate as long as she ADHERES to the USUAL requirements . Are'nt those requirements that a non Jew needs a Kashrut supervisor ?

The state for some time has been legislating some aspects of what is usually Halacha. A good example is the Law of Return. The question of who is Jewish was strictly in the religious domain until Law of Return was codified and acted upon. Interestingly, in spite of this, it is still a hotly debated question-one with no agreed upon solution in sight. As for kashrut-a Jew is the one who has to oversee the preparation of the food. If there are already non Jewish places-in Israel-who have a rabbi onsite to supervise, I am fine with that. But there are many in the country who are not. Some Haredim will not eat food not prepared by a Jew. So, it appears the Supreme Court had in mind this scenario when it made this ruling-that it was looking out for all members of the Jewish community-even the strictest ones.

You like to make us believe you were converted . A try to come in those 57 % .

Daniel 9:25 foretold of the Messiah to come exactly to the day but jews rejected Him then, as they do now. Yeshua was born a jew, lived a perfect jewish life and died a jew on Passover. Jesus Christ fullfilled 4 of the 7 Holy Feasts of God on his death, burial,resurrection and 50 days later on Penecost; yet, you STILL deny Him. Christians are jews only friends in the world and yet jews hate them as well. Open your eyes to the Torah and see Yeshua (Jesus) embedded through every jot and tittle. YHVH the infinite put on Yeshua the finite! How wonderful the YHVH of Israel!!!

There is so much spin between this story and the headline that my head is spinning. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Knoforti's. Shoudn't that be the headline and not what brought them to the court system instead?

My mother drilled into my head that God would not have gifted me with a reasonably good brain and a conscience, if I were meant to run around like a chicken without a head and listen to who knows how many other people, who may or may not have as much common sense as I do. When all is said and done, I only have to answer for myself and I seriously doubt that any "but the Rabbi, Priest, Preacher, Sheik, Guru said" will do me one bit of good. Whatever you think the future is for goyim is probably no different from the predicted future of Infidels, or that of the Christians for their brand of non-believers. After all, the Koran is no less valid and "inspired" to a Muslim than the New Testament is to a Christian than the Old Testament is to a (religious) Jew, than the Popol Vu was to the Mayans. All those good books are a little too overloaded with magic, threats, contradictions, murder, mayhem, and destruction at the behest of God for my taste. Not only that, but the subscribers to any particular book can't even agree among themselves what God really means. Of course, when something is no longer convenient or doesn't work too well, anymore, some self-proclaimed sage always seems to show up to re-interpret things to fit the times and circumstances, as if God didn't have a clue what's what from one century to the next. I'm perfectly happy for everybody to do it their way as long as there are no threats, if I do it mine, especially if I don't step on anybody else's toes in the process. Oh, and I know exactly what my purpose is. It's to provide God with a little comic relief now and then. We are blessed with the gift of laughter, and with so much fighting and long-faced self-righteousness everywhere, it's a wonder that there are not a lot more really big floods or some other "let me start from scratch" disasters. Although it's a nice touch, I choose to ignore that rainbow promise, because I bet there were rainbows long before floods. And on that note, I wish you a happy and healthy life.

Doesn't it seem logical that people have CHOICES? If people don't want to buy items from her shop - then don't. A Jew is a Jew is a Jew, no matter the religion, politics or personal philosophy. What's next? Will the Chief Rabbinate determine that non-orthodox can't publish papers? Can't teach in schools? Can't have jobs? Can't hold public office? Where does it stop?

First, thank you, Ms. Hartley, for your very intelligent and apt comments. I would only disagree about your sense of humour on the subject as these differences in religious perspectives and affiliations have serious, even horrible, conflicts throughout civilizational history. I, too, although a Jew (not a very good one, however) really couldn't care less what name a person uses for God or even if that person follows no formal religion whatsoever, or even if that person denies a Creator. None of what others believe in that regard is any of my business in terms of evaluating, judging or converting. On the other hand, I am very interested in how my neighbours act and, especially, how they act on their beliefs. As to Mr. Yirmeyahu, I often believe that whatever destiny I (we) may have, is not one which is assigned nor predictable. As to an almighty spirit directing things, I'd hate to think so in view of the cruelties of the Holocaust and other massive human tragedies. Any God who would allow these things to take place must be cruel himself or else powerless in the face of certain events. In either case, such a God is not a deity whom I have much use for. While you appear to be certain that there is a (pre-ordained) purpose for all of us, I do not agree, at least on Tuesdays (today), Thursday and Saturdays. People often say that "there is a reason for everything" as a way of understanding (rationalizing) the events which take place in this world. Well, if there is a reason, much of it is unknowable to the human mind. Personally, I think a good deal of it is ad hoc (much as Ms. Hartley may view phenomenon). Believe me, I did not come to my views lightly nor, I suspect, did you. But I may well have contemporary quantum physics as corroboration for my point of view which puts me in pretty good stead. I do think human beings feel compelled, however, to find a rationale in order to feel purposeful. My need for a purposeful universe has diminished over the years. as to Kasrut, I often think that the whole complexity of the situation is a way to hold my fellow Jews in thrall to the rabbinate and as a means of giving rabbis a means of making a living. Nonetheless, I would not speak out against those who keep kosher but I also believe that people should get off Pnini's case. It's enough if she hires a respectable Jew who will oversee her operation and testify to the fact that she keeps kosher. I have more respect for her given her fights and struggles for rights in the labyrinthal Israeli Court system.

Actually, you're the one who's thick-headed. The term is "stiff-necked."

Not trustworthy eh! Well I bet these rabbis would fall over themselves to give Madoff what ever he wanted, and at a big discount. Trust has nothing to do with it. Its all about not being a Jew as far as these Rabbis are concerned. If this lady had a bigger business and more money, there would not be such a problem.

Being an older adult, I’m no longer impressed to hear that large percentages of Jews in the US have attended college. First off, as the study itself points out, the very small number of US Jews as opposed to the size of the mainline Christian population tends to skew the educational results away from the national average, which is more closely reflected in results from larger samples. Second, and more importantly, how could you possibly imply that US Jews are on the whole smarter than the non-Jewish population, when they so overwhelmingly voted for Mr. Obama, who is the worst possible thing that could happen both to Israel and to the United States? He played the US Jewish population for total suckers – like taking candy from a baby. Except he is working to take the Promised Land from Hashem’s Chosen. Grow up #46. You sound like a very silly man. With reference to current higher education in the United States, I tend to think that “less is more”. One of the wisest, most loving, most decent and most spiritual individuals I've ever met was an illiterate coal miner from West Virginia.

Regarding a "god" and the Shoa , that's also how i think . This messianic REFUSED to hire a Mashgiach . That's the problem for het Kashrut certificate

ignor their own Historical inheritage.

They say people get what they demand, only the Jewish people aren't very good at demanding much from each other when it comes to Kosher in America. So it's like kind of unusual from my perspective.