Opinion  Sever Plocker
They don’t want a state
Sever Plocker
Published: 08.07.09, 17:54
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1. Plocker, you disgrace journalism
Nour ,   Palestine   (07.08.09)
"After analyzing the official documents of Fatah, the PLO, and the Palestinian Authority, as well as statements made by Palestinian leaders, Professor Morris concludes that from the very beginning, the Palestinian national movement views Palestine as an Arab and Muslim state in its entirety. " This is an utter lie. Palestine was and will always be regarded as a pluralist society by Palestinians. Arafat never missed an official christian ceremony, churches dot Palestine, and we consider our Christian compatriots as brothers. Do yourself a favor and stop writing trash. The fundamental reason why Palestinians have not attained freedom and independence is Israel's refusal and rejectionism through settlements, breaching ceasefires, and a systematic program to ethnically cleanse the West Bank (22% of historical Palestine). Spare us this garbage about a secret Muslim agenda.
2. statehood
palestinian refugee   (07.08.09)
the most important issue for the majority of the Palestinian people is to return to their homes and have access to Jerusalem and live in this land freely with equal rights to everyone. I agree that it's not the statehood that Palestinians seek. so if a one state for everyone would realize this dream then let it be and I think the Jews also should abandon the only for Jews state and try to think more human of how to live with the original inhabitants of this land. Jews have suffered a lot in Europe in the past and it's unjust to make other people pay for their sufferings. let's together build the holy land and live in it all.
3. We do not live in a "reality absent of solutions"...
Joe ,   Ramat Gan   (07.08.09)
We live in a reality where our political leadership refuses to stand up for our legitimate rights to the Land of Israel in its entirety and expel all those who seek to deter us from exercising our political and human rights to the furthest extent allowable under international law. We live in a reality where we vote for the Right and get the Left or vote for the Left and get traitors as our leaders. We live in a reality where almost all Arabs have the courage to openly state that only one nation can exist between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, but few Jewish leaders have the courage to comprehend what this actually means- it's either us or them.
4. nothing to add
doctor   (07.08.09)
article says the truth, even if it hurts a pali's eyes...
5. Waow, took them a while to figure that one out
Ben ,   London, UK   (07.08.09)
6. What the Palestinians want
Nasim ,   East Jerusalem   (07.08.09)
is to live in peace on their historic land, and have all the refugees back, restore the villages that were destroyed by the zionist movement, worship freely in Jerusalem, prosper economically, academically, etc on their homeland instead of living foreigners in others lands. This is what the Palestinians want. A statehood is only a tool to achieve this. Certainly, before the British colony the Palestinians lived under Islamic Caliphates, Romans, etc... The Palestinians are rooted in this land, will refuse policies under whatever name to strip them from this basic historic right. The Palestinians are the true descendents of the Semitic people that lived in Palestine since the Canaanites age.
7. But they will get one anyway
Steve from Raleigh   (07.08.09)
Whatever they make or don't make of it will be their problem
8. Fantasies of Israel's destruction continue to permeate the P
Ivory Tower   (07.08.09)
The Palestinians prefer to maintain their revolutionary dreams than compromise in the form of two states for two peoples. A lesson: Palestinian spokespeople may scream "Occupation, occupation, occupation!" BUT ending the occupation is not an end goal in itself as many in the West believe. These spokespeople don't say we want an end to the occupation so we can live in peaceful coexistence with our Jewish neighbors. Immediate sovereignty is not their goal. Fantasies of Israel's destruction continue to permeate the Palestinian psyche... and they were always there.
9. Palestinians don't want a state
Daniel ,   Europe   (07.08.09)
To be a state means to take responsibility and commitments, toward your own people and in international issues. Clearly not and never the will and the ability of the Palestinians: their aim is the re-establishment of an indefinite Arab entity on Israeli soil, as it was before Israel and Zionism were born, named after the Pseudonym "Palestine". So maybe it's time to forget the hope and to face reality. At least, reality never lies.
10. I could have told you that without "research"
m   (07.08.09)
Isn't it enough to LISTEN to what they say?
11. Essentially their response to the Peel Commission
David ,   Montreal, CANADA   (07.08.09)
12. #1 - Nour, And you disgrace logic...
Joe ,   Ramat Gan   (07.08.09)
The fundamental reason you don't have freedom and independence is because your leaders have constantly chosen war over peace, genocide over coexistence and repression over transparency. You could have had a state in 1948, yet you chose war. It was also the same in the aftermath of the Oslo Accords. Also, Fatah and Hamas repress your "people" to a degree that surpasses any criticism you could launch at Israel. Read all about forced conversions to Islam in Judea, Samaria and Gaza. Read all about execution of homosexuals in those same regions too. Spare us all the selective nitpicking of facts to support your biased conclusions that misrepresent the historical and political facts on the ground. If you're looking for someone to blame, take a good long look in the mirror...
13. Must act accordingly
Carl   (07.08.09)
It's been clear to many of use for a long time that this is the situation. Unfortunately our leadership and media are slow to catch on. The reality is that the Palestinians must be offered a federation with Jordan (the Palestinian state). If they try to defeat us through violence they must be dealt a crushing blow (similar to Japan and Germany in WWII). Olmert had his opportunity in Gaza but didn't have the stomach for it.
14. 90% of "palestinians" came to Israel in 1800's with Jews
Jae ,   Lynn US   (07.08.09)
returning to Jewish 4000 year old homeland. from modern day egypt, syria, Jordan, Iraq, Arabia they came because the Jews were building up the Jewish homeland and bringing money , infrastructure and a a budding economy. JOBS were available and people came in through the non existent northern, eastern and southern borders. This conflict is an Islamic affair having to do with non Islamic entity in Islamic world. Thats a problem for them. Also that Jews become sovereign and leave their status as forlorn dhimmis is an obstacle in Islamic goal of world conquest (If you dont belive me go to Indonesia in the south pacific or Albania and Bulgaria or Morrocco. Theres a reason Islam spread 12000 miles and its called "mohammeds way or death."
15. #6 Fiction
Jason, Ph.D. ,   Charlotte, USA   (07.08.09)
Nasim, The Jews (Israelites) are the only existing people who were indigenous to the land you call Palestine. There is not one shred of historical evidence that 'Palestinians' are descendants of the Canaanites or Israelites. It is sad that that one of the world's newest nationalities (Palestinians) have the nerve to assert that one of the world's oldest nationalities (Jews) are not a real nationality.
16. Of course they want a state - ours
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (07.08.09)
First they stole our history, now they want our lands as well.
17. Palestinian State : How Good It Would Be?
Abdel Karim Salim ,   Jerusalem - ISRAEL   (07.08.09)
Often I mull the idea of establishing a Palestinian state & whether it would be any better than living under Israeli control, to exclude the option of living under the much-loathed Hashemite monarchical regime ! Would such a Palestinian state be a genuinely-democratic one that would observe human rights' laws & rules ? Would it secure the welfare of its citizens by providing free education as well as cradle-to-grave social security system(including public, life-long health insurance)? I ,as a Palestinian,would support establishing a state for us on these conditions & under the following circumstances : 1) The constitution of such a state would have to be secular all the way & in a manner that it could not be radically altered or dissolved ! 2) Separation of state & religion ; religion should become a personal,private matter only, not to be imposed on the people by force through intimidation or persecution. 3) The three authorities ( legislative,executive,& judicial) would have to be extremely independent from one another & none of them to be controlled by the other. 4) The state would have to be democratic with a multi-party political,presidential system.Almost all leaders of the three authorities would have to be elected by the people,and the president himself would serve for one six-year term only. 5) The security forces ( police or national guards) would remain confined to their barracks & would assume the principal task of enforcing law & order only, without the least intervention by them in political affairs. 6) The constitution of such a Palestinian state would clearly stipulate that the foreign policy is considerably neutral & that the right to wage war is to be unequivocally renounced ; the security forces would be termed " PSD " - Palestine Self Defense ( defense of the homeland only). 7) Membership in the sterile Arab Leauge would have to considered carefully, & at best diplomatic ties with the arab countries would have to be quite loose. Pan Arabism would have to be scrapped & the welfare of such a state would be viewed almost entirely from a purely-self-interest perspective rather than from a vague , useless ,emotional Arab nationalism perspective. I would support establishment of a Palestinian state with such characteristics & properties only !
18. Yes
Kerry ,   Redlands USA   (07.08.09)
The Arabs, most of them, want to eradicate Israel. Israel may have to expel the Arabs from the land. I come to this conclusion after reading massive amounts of Arab media. The situation is hopeless, hence, destroy the enemy.
19. Nour
k   (07.08.09)
You know you do not live in a pluralistic, tolerant society. I watch your media, and the English translations in MEMRI and Palestinian Media Watch, Ah-Ahrem, Al Jazeera, etc. Why do you not protest regarding the Jewish caricatures, blood libels, and murders? Why? You will be shot. You do not want a stable state, you want Israel's destruction, and so do most Arabs.
20. Reply to Nur of "Palestine"
Yehiel ,   Jerusalem, ISRAEL   (07.08.09)
You are obviously brainwashed by all the arab propoganda trash. There IS a Palestinian state. It's called JORDAN. Go there and join the rest of the so called Palestinians (another bad joke).
21. To #2 Palestinian Refugee
The Other Ron ,   USA   (07.08.09)
Original inhabitants of this land? Surely you jest! And the Jews should be more human . . . THAN WHOM! If you really believe this, then there is no hope!
22. To #1 - Nour from Palestine
Marucho ,   Bs.Aires - Argentina   (07.08.09)
Nour, you really surprise me. You, as a palestinian, are so open-minded about living together with christians…, and what about jews? Ahhh…? How many jews can you name or count living in Gaza, the West Bank, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc.? I must remind you that between 1948 and 1967, when the Kingdom of Jordan possessed the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and when there were no palestinian people known as such but just as arabs, the jews were absolutely forbidden to access their only most sacred place in the World, the Western Wall, just to pray. So, according to real History, why should jews believe you and your sweet words about tolerance among moslems and christians and…, what about jews? Whom are you trying to cheat… but yourself?. We, jews, are no stupid and have an excellent memory, and we know History, the real one, not the historical narrative invented by Arafat (who in fact was egyptian) to legitimize the existence of a palestinian people that doesn´t have any historical records availing its existence until 1967. And I should remember you that we don´t like suicide.
23. # 15
J K ,   NYC, USA   (07.08.09)
Don't feel so bad. I've also heard claims that the Palestinians are the ancestors of the Philistines. If that's the case, the Philistines were a sea people, and there is strong evidence they came from mainland Greece. In that case, it's time to get on a boat and sail home, Achmed. 'Aelia Palestina' was the name given to this land by the Romans in order to erase the name of Israel from historical memory for their revolt against Rome in 66-70 CE. All statements that somehow the 'Palestinians' are different than Syrians or Jordanian's are laughable. At Israel's founding, their own leaders referred to themselves as 'Southern Syrians'. Arafat finally came up with Palestinians in 1964, a full 3 years before any part of the WB was under any Israeli control. The jokes go on....but I'll stop here.
24. #1 Nour...thanks for the admission!
jayjay3 ,   Israel   (07.08.09)
You claim West bank is only 22% of palestine! What about the majority of 78%? Thats an admittance that you are not interested in the majority of Palestine which is Jordan! And the only reason why you want the minority, Israel at 22%, is because you dont want the Jews to have their own state which was mandated accordingly! You know very well thats the secret Muslim Arab agenda! You are nothing but a racist!
25. Benny Morris is a ME history revisionist not historian
zionist forever   (07.08.09)
The palestinians wants a state just as much now as they did before Arafat died but they also want a state in Israel as well. The only difference is Arafat was charismatic and knew how to please a crowd with his speeches the way Obama does now. Abbas is a little more of a realist but he is also a quiet man and can't rouse a crowd through speeches. Palsetinians also have other problems to worry about today with the Hamas take over of Gaza and the fact their economy is in ruins. If you have a family are you going to be more concerned about your next paycheck or fighting for statehood? This is more Benny Morris revisionist thinking.
26. I am sure some folks will agree and some won't
Psalms83 ,   Selah   (07.08.09)
some mideast history http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html
27. #17 - Abdel, Thank you for your awesome talkback!
Joe ,   Ramat Gan   (07.08.09)
Both you and I know that it probably will never happen, but enlightened people like you shine like diamonds compared to Nour, whose name means 'light' but whose heart is filled with darkness. Keep posting!
28. statehood
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (07.08.09)
If the Arabs succeed in destroying Israel, they will then complete the genocide of all non-Muslim Arabs. The land of Israel will be dismembered as Syria, Jordan and Egypt take over. After the world stops paying them to live here, within a generation the "Palestinians" will go back to their homelands in the Arab world and the land will be abandoned once again.
29. Free Palestine - Palestinians & jews live in peace
(07.08.09)
30. What Palestinians want
Jack ,   Fort Collins, USA   (07.08.09)
I can't pretend to know what the majority of Palestinians or Israelis want, but I got some idea from my recent visit. The Palestinians seem to want freedom, dignity and political and economic rights. There was a time when many thought two states would allow them to achieve this. I think that now most people agree that the new facts on the ground have made two states impossible. Israel lost that last chance for a Jewish state by its intransigence. Now it is a civil rights struggle and the whole world, including the US is turning against the Israeli apartheid policy. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but the civil and human rights movement will succeed as all such movements eventually do.
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