Opinion
How childish are we?
Adi Dvir
Published: 24.08.09, 00:45
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31. I Think A Response *IS* Necessary
Christy ,   Boston, US   (08.24.09)
At first I thought the story, about harvesting organs, was SOOO over the top nobody in their right mind would believe it. A little re-thinking changed my mind. I recall the nonsense, still ongoing, about how the US Gov., Bush, CIA, et al. were responsible for the attack on the US on 9-11-01. I thought nobody would believe that either. Boy, was I wrong. There are groups of peoples in this world who WANT to believe the worse of Israel (and the US and others). When they see a story like this, it just adds fuel to their fire. I think it should be responded to LOUDLY! I think asking the Swedish Government to state they do not endorse such garbage is reasonable. I don't think they can/will denounce it.
32. Idiotic article - and this is from one of Ynet's EDITORS???
Roscio ,   Rome, Italy   (08.24.09)
I live in Europe - this anti-Semitic article went all over the EU media and one can even hear so-called intellectuals and teachers saying "Well, I always suspected that of the Israelis/the Jews." Very recently, when a lone Swedish artist put up some cartoons mocking Islam on the internet, the Swedish government immediately condemned him, shut down the website, and apologized on bended knee to the entire Muslim world. Sweden's lies and hypocrisy can be understood only by openly acknowledging their long history of anti-Jewish behavior and the ever-growing and ever-more-violent Muslim community that already has subjugated their three largest cities. Israel has not only the right, but the OBLIGATION to expose this medieval hatred and its incitement to anti-Israel actions in the EU. Israel must absolutely demand the exact same respect that the Swedish government constantly shows to the Muslim world. Here in Europe, silence means capitulation - the exact aim of the enemies of Israel, Am Yisrael and of civilization itself.
33. Hysterical and Paranoidic Israel - Apologies to Sweden
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (08.24.09)
Israelis tend to exaggerate threats and become irrationally hysterical about imaginary anti-Semitism. Israelis have been falsely taught that all Goyim are anti-Semites, hate us and want to destroy us. Israelis are suspicious of non-Jews and their motives believing that a non-Jew cannot love not Jews, Judaism or Israel. All these thoughts are false and damaging to us. Suspecting the entire Swedish people, their businesses and government of latent or overt anti-Semitism is infantile and counter-productive. I am embarassed that our "leaders" are too immature and stupid to be able to distinguish real threats from imaginary ones. My apologies to our dear Swedish friends for their idiocy.
34. we should never stay quietand let others spread lies!!!
proud to b jewish   (08.24.09)
35. People who WANT to believe something
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.24.09)
even the most unbelievable , will believe it . Those 20 parents told that they think their children's bodies were "harvested" . The next one forgets the "think" and say : those parents said it . And then of course , those who want , believe it 100 % . Israel's reaction was not very smart . We are ridiculised by this demand for apologies we will never receive from the Swedish governement . And telling that todays Swedes are the same antisemites as during the Shoa , only shows ignorance . They saved more than 8000 Jews . They collaborated with nazi germany ? wich country did'nt do it ?
36. Yhen sue the basturds
Yossi ,   Raanana   (08.24.09)
Swedish government has nothing to do with this article.
37. OK, but.....
Yossi ,   Raanana   (08.24.09)
What do you want from the Swedish government?
38. Lieberman
Yossi ,   Raanana   (08.24.09)
His problem is that he still lieves in his mind in the old Soviet Union. He is now a minister in a democratic free and strong Israeli government and he should make the switch!
39. Nobel price count
Yossi ,   Raanana   (08.24.09)
Checking by the number of Nobel prices awarded by the Swedes they love us Jews!!!
40. @31
NilsG ,   Helsingborg, Sweden   (08.24.09)
You are right: the article should be responded to loudly, and it HAS been responded to, loudly, by major Swedish newspaper. I understand that you find asking the Swedish Government to state that they do not endorse such garbage to be reasonable. However, for them to do so would be unconstitutional. It would open them to attack from the opposition, which saw one of THEIR ministers being forced to resign for doing just that, viz, tampering with the freedom of the press. So, you are right again: they cannot, and they (most likely) will not. It has now become a question of NOT BACKING DOWN. Both for the Swedish and the Israeli governments.
41. If the lady protesteth not it will
(08.24.09)
be generally assumed that she does, in fact, have a sister...
42. What a fool this is.
Arn. ,   Sweden.   (08.24.09)
As a Swede i know Sweden and its population better than this report. I find nothing wrong with Israels stance, it is wholly true. That opinions differ is as it does about everything between Right and Left-wingers in Sweden also. I am still ashamed to be a Swede. Arn.
43. To Nils 40
Gil ,   Tel Aviv   (08.24.09)
The problem is that people keep calling it an "article" or an "opinion" when the truth is that its "incitement to hate". This is unlawful. As an Israeli I feel libelled by this hateful incitment and rightly so! Would Swedes tolerate the same from us? Of course not! Can newspapers print racial hate? It goes beyond, far beyond the line of "freedom of speech". Right thinking people must speak out about it, I don't care how they do it.
44. Nothing "Childish" about it. Lies should not be published
(08.24.09)
.......AS FACT! I wholeheartedly agree with the numerous others who also say that this garbage should not be allowed.
45. get a grip
Sören ,   Uppsala, Sweden   (08.24.09)
Where does religion come in? This was an attack at IDF, not your religion. IDF should react if anyone. Sweden is anti-israel for a reason. We are pro palestine for a reason. There are many palesteins in Sweden and they are glad to be able to work and live as they should be able to do. Unfortunatly Israel dont allow them to do so, is it so strange sweden is anti-israel? But we are NOT anti jews. Thats probobly why the swedish jewish organisation dont react strongly at this. They know about sweden and the swedes. Normaly, we dont even care about what religion you have as long as you behave according to our "moralic rules", if not, we dont like you. They are maniacs in sweden to, crazy polticians and so on. And there are probobly one or two murderers in Israel. Like in all country. This article may or may not be true. But how do you or I know its not true? For all I know, it could be true. I do hope its wrong and I think its insane to write an article about this without any proves. But some stupied journalist did and we have to live with that.
46. To NilsG #30
Tahl ,   Ashdod, Israel   (08.24.09)
I beg to differ with you. Although I agree that hate is present on both sides, there is a major difference between TBs by Israelis and by Swedes against each other. The latter (Swedish TB against Israelis) can be found almost always, even when Israel did not do any harm against Sweden. In general, Swedes do not need Israel to harm them, in order to express their hate to us. The Aftonbladet story is one example. Another example, is the Swedish broadcaster of one of the recent Eurovision contests, imploring the audience not to vote for Israel. The recent Malmo riots are yet another example. The former (Israeli TBs against Sweden) is found only when Sweden wrongs us. But when they don't, then Sweden enjoys a pretty good status here. When three Israelis raped Swedish volunteers here, the whole country was shocked and disgusted, we all felt very much ashamed, of how we'll be perceived by Sweden. When a Swede fell very sick here with Swine flu, everybody expressed interest in her, and wished her a speedy recovery. IKEA and Volvo are very successful here, and everybody recognizes them as trademarks of quality. So as you see, hate by Israelis is not directed with no reason. Plus, Swedes can easily brush off whatever insults are directed at them, whereas Jews have been targets of hate for many, many centuries, and have grown sick and tired of hearing the same libels over and over again, in different variations. When the whole world would starting cursing and make up stories against Swedes all the time, perhaps you would feel more sensitive too.
47. illegal to condemn
Frode ,   Oslo, Norway   (08.24.09)
It's constitutionally illegal for a Swedish Gov to condemn any article in the press. End of story. They didnt condemn the mohammed drawings either. Get over it.
48. What will screaming solve?
Erik Persson ,   Sweden   (08.24.09)
I'm quite shocked at these reactions and even more so by the complete lack of knowledge about Swedish society. First, some say that there was a "anti muslim" website that was shut down and this proves that Sweden is pro-muslim anti-semite. Yes, this is true, and then the minister was fired because it was a huge scandal. To say that Sweden is pro muslim is just silly, that they protest and fight the Swedish society is proof of that, not the opposite. Further all these so called "anti semite" tendencies that has been dug up are the workings of marginalized extremists. The holocaust is by far the single largest topic in Swedish history education, Schindlers list is pretty much compulsory education. Of course there is "some" anti-semitism, the same way there is anti muslim, anti african etc tendencies. But if you believe that the right way to rid our society of those "very small" factions, is to scream and shout and question our moral values is the right way to do it, you are wrong. I'd say that the Israeli government has in the last couple of days, done more for the cause of nazis and islamists in Sweden then they EVER could have done themselves with any amount of lobbying. To claim that Sweden is heading in the direction of nazi germany, in a time when the party in power is the most Israel friendly of them all, with the clear intention of improving Swedish-Israeli relations... That saddens me, because you risk making an enemy out of a friendly nation, for no better reason than pride and ignorance.
49. @43
NilsG ,   Helsingborg, Sweden   (08.24.09)
I completely see your point, I hope. However, as I have already pointed out, the has already been slammed by major Swedish newspapers, it has also been condemned (but not unanimusly) by Swedish TBers here. What will not happen is that the Swedish government will condemn it. Because it would be against the constituition. The fact that is an odious piece of trash does not mean that it is not a published article according to Swedish legislation. It is! It has been published in a newspaper (and a well known tabloid with the common sense of a concussed budgerigar it is) and then becomes the responsibility of the publisher. That is the law and constitution in Sweden. Not simply the law, but the constitution! You must understand that Sweden has its own history, and that the constitution reflects that. This particular piece of the constitution reflects that during WW2 Swedish newspapers were censored by the government, or not allowed to be transported, or not allocated paper for printing. I have said this before: the last time a minster tried to tamper with the freedom of the press, it cost her her job. Several TBers have suggested suing the newspaper. Well, go ahead! Do it! THAT is not against the constitution.
50. @43
pric ,   sweden   (08.24.09)
"incitement to hate"? Hm, no I would call it just a debate-starter. As the reporter Boström said; there is no evidence, so the point of that article is just asking questions and starting a debate i guess. I really don't understand why you're all making it such a big deal.
51. Soren #45
Tahl ,   Ashdod, Israel   (08.24.09)
"This was an attack at IDF, not your religion." - The IDF represents Israel. The IDF is what protects us from those wishing to kill us. The IDF is all of us. An attack on the IDF therefore, is an attack on us. "There are many palesteins in Sweden and they are glad to be able to work and live as they should be able to do." - How lovely. I wonder if you'd say the same when all your social services would be completely consumed by them and other immigrants very soon. Or when it would become dangerous to walk your streets. "Unfortunatly Israel dont allow them to do so, is it so strange sweden is anti-israel?" - So Sweden is anti-Israel because Israel doesn't let Palestinians work and live peacefully? Try Hamas - they are the reasons Palestinians are suffering. Or maybe you meant that Sweden is anti-Israel because Sweden is now stuck with all these Palestinian refugees it doesn't want?... "But we are NOT anti jews. Thats probobly why the swedish jewish organisation dont react strongly at this. " - The Jews in Sweden, as in other Nordic countries, are afraid of their own shadows, and would say anything to please their rulers. The proof that your country is indeed antisemitic, is the plain fact that Jews cannot walk outside wearing traditional religious clothes, or even kippah, for fear of being beaten up. Also, the connection the Aftonbladet made between the Brooklyn Rabbi and the IDF, was not based on the fact this Rabbi ever served in the IDF or even set foot in Israel... But simply because he was Jewish. If you didn't realize this, this is an excellent, classic example of antisemitism. "Normaly, we dont even care about what religion you have as long as you behave according to our "moralic rules"" -Oh really? Do all your Arab immigrants behave this according to these moral rules? We sure saw how "moral" they were in Malmo recently! And did the Aftonbladet editor behave morally, publishing a slanderous story with no evidence? "I think its insane to write an article about this without any proves. But some stupied journalist did and we have to live with that. " - No we don't. When accusing someone of wrongdoing, the burden of proof must be on the accuser. No proof? Don't accuse!
52. Bit surprised of the response
KL ,   Sweden   (08.24.09)
As a Swedish citizen I could give some info about the reactions over here, they fit the article above very vell actually. People where at first surprised about the attention given to article but didnt pay much attention to it. Most agreed its a poorly written article as many other articles ending up in newspapers, daily. But the next step surprised people even more and created irritation and anger. Im refering to the "making a political situation of it" . The Israely goverment demand that the Swedish goverment act against one of its Constitutional law and condemn a article in a newspaper that mainly consist of gossip. The situation might create problems for the work between Israel and the Europeic Union. Benjamin Netanyahu Is arriving in Europe tomorrow and will there meet the Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt in his EU role. Well Im worried its not about the article at all and only politics, and if so it would be sad if none reacts on that.
53. Condemning libel and racist incitement is NOT "childish"!
The Doc ,   Haifa, Israel   (08.24.09)
Don't count on the so-called "intelligence" of the readers. 90% of the readers of tabloids like the 'bladet don't think - especially if their minds have already been filled with hatred against the Jews and Israel, helped by our inaction and pompous assumption that it is more "civilized" to ignore racist incitement rather than fighting it. The public arena has been ignored for too long. We allowed the Islamo-Leftists, Anarchists and Nazi agitators to harrass us on the streets, in the media and in court. We allowed these scum distort the facts, fabricate lies, recycle or invent new blood libels and claim racist and inhuman claims against Israel and the Jews. And of course, the coward enemy has blinked already! The public and media and political "attention" which that pathetic 'bladet tabloid got, pushed them into defense and forced them to do a "double-take" and confess publicly that their racist claims have NO PROOF and NO FOUNDATION - in fact, confessing to libel and racist incitement! We should not burn embassies like our enemies do, but we should EXPOSE, COMPLAIN and FIGHT ANY KIND OF RACIST INCITEMENT, LIBELS AND HARASSEMENT AGAINST ISRAEL AND THE JEWS, FOR AS LONG AS THIS IS AN ACCEPTABLE PRACTICE! The "water" falling onto us is NOT "rain" and not even "spit" anymore - it is VENOM and it should be STOPPED forever. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
54. to #50 pric and similar thinkers
Tahl ,   Ashdod, Israel   (08.24.09)
Are you really that thick, that you don't understand what Gil was talking about? You really don't understand why he's making "such a big deal"? As I said in earlier post - everyone is innocent until proven guilty, and the burden of proof is upon the accuser. IF YOU HAVE NO PROOF TO BACK UP YOUR ACCUSATION, DON'T ACCUSE! You can't throw accusations up in the air, just to "start a debate". Especially, when your accusations incite so much hate. You have no moral right to do so. This is what the "big deal" is all about. I suppose the allegations made against Jews, of making matzos out of Christian children's blood, which similarly had no proof whatsoever - were also freedom of speech, and "starting a debate"? As Gil said, incitement to hate is unlawful, and goes far beyond freedom of speech. It's very simple: no proof - no accusation. How sad you cannot understand this simple concept.
55. Lieberman, stop behaving like an Arab!
Manny ,   Canada   (08.24.09)
Thank you Adi and Ynet for this great opinion piece. It describes exactly how I feel about this Aftonbladet story. The reaction of Israeli officials reminds me of the reaction of the Muslim leaders to the Danish cartoons. Both are very immature and embarassing.
56. Any army can be critisized
Peter Larsson ,   Gothenburg, Sweden   (08.24.09)
Tahl: Regarding the IDF - so nobody can critizise the armed forces of Isreal? What kind of Red Armyesque BS is that? If you've got a military force engaged in conflict it is WIDE OPEN to critizism. In this case, spurious, unfounded critzism, which means that I cannot stress enought what a good idea it would be to sue Aftonbladet. But to say that "You cannot critizise the IDF without critizising the jewish people" well that borders militaristic totalitarianism.
57. Question.
Chris ,   sweden   (08.24.09)
My one question is: When are the world ready to give up the beliefs in race? Childish, foolish and leading nowhere. Eye for an eye rhymes bad with shalom.
58. words from a swede...
Michael ,   Sweden   (08.24.09)
The article in Aftonbladet had so many gaps and was so unreliable that hardly anyone here in Sweden really believed what it said. The story was offered like ten years ago to another paper but they thought it didnt qualify as reliable. Most newspaper here in Sweden says its close to pure BS but are also quite shocked over the Israeli reactions. The best way to deal with such things/lies/accusations is not done best by getting angry (even if that is understandable) but with objective arguments to prove them wrong (the tabloidpaper is a piece of crap so that wont be to hard). I think this has gone way to far... Best, Michael
59. #40 - Thanks for info and feedback
Christy ,   Boston, US   (08.24.09)
I follow blogs that have contributers from Sweden and am aware of their strong stance on Free Speech. Swedes take free speech very seriously. I support Free Speech and Press for all points of view. Good to know this current lie has been responded to LOUDLY by the press in Sweden!! (I think Free Speech is best responded to by MORE Free Speech.) Months ago, I was very glad to see the strong reaction the 'average Swede' seemed to have to their government's actions against the publication of 'The Cartoons'. (I gave a cheer when I learned that members of the Swedish Press would publish such cartoons for the sake of Free Speech - Free Press!) Unfortunately the angry Swedish public reaction to censorship of 'The Cartoons' didn't stop the government from censoring the future publication of 'The Cartoons'. The Swedish Government *DID* denounce 'The Cartoons'. This does make the current stance a bit problematic. If the government would intervene for the Muslims, why not for the Jews? Everyone should be treated equally.
60. NOT anti-semitical
Peter ,   Gothenburg, Sweden   (08.24.09)
Sometimes I wonder how many posters have actually read the article? Obviously, medieval bloody hate-mongering like the Saudi professor you quoted would be put through criminal court in sweden under hate laws. This article didn't actually point the finger at jews or at jewry but at the IDF and at Isreal. That is a HELL of a difference. Now there was some questionable reasoning as to the links between the IDF and the american Rabbi's that are very questionable. But that is a far cry from a full on anti-semitic attack
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