"both of u have radical views based on hatred and stereotypes" Really? And exactly how many suicide bombings has Israel carried out? "Half the things u mentioned in post (#20) are not even true." Really? Which ones? "As far as Israeli-Arabs are concerned, in the same breath u condems the radicals u have to acknowledge the moderates and not ignore the fact that many serve in the iDF and even die defending the jewish state." Really? Can I have some examples? " If u read my posts I condemn radicalisim on both sides" My point exactly. You can blather as much as you want on the YNet news blog, but I have yet to see Israeli Arabs stand up with Israeli Jews. That's what will convince me. "i have not seen u condemning jewish terrorism" Really? How many Jewish suicide bombing attacks have killed innocent Palestinians? If you wish to convince me of your "peaceful intentions," you need to stand up and be counted. Thus far, you have not. 'nuff said.

Can you please be more specific, and, tell us the name of the Education Minister, and I thank you in advance.

who would trust our country into such hands. If you love Hezbollah so much, how could Israeli Jews ever feel comfortable with Israeli Arabs who act like this, yet alone trust. And they shout discrimination..... you see a lot of anti Jewish stuff by them and racism, yet for them it is in the name of nationalism with friends like Hezobollah praised,, squares named after murderers of Jews(and children) glorified, and thus it is all justified. How can we ever feel free or trust those who act like this. Better they live in Palestine with their brothers.

not all arab villages where here before the Jews ( and they can go back thousands of years. docs show bethlehem-1500, arabs Arabia A lot fromJaffa, Galilee Triangle, many Egyptian settlements from the invasion of the Pasha Ali in the 1830s. Black Bedouin of Negev descendants of slaves of that army. Beit Safafa and Jala, 1400 , Arabs from Wadi Musa Jordan and much more Try the Turkish ,(and Algerian) census. And maps of the country pre 1840. (data in Arabic in Algeria, British exploration Fund, and much more. Yes there were small Palestinian villages, and hundred of Bedouin wars, and many different immigrant groups of Arabs. The history of this region is more interesting pre 1840 and beyond. Now the Jews can use "before" just as equally and have lots of major data to back that up. There are some Arabs here from the 7th century but not the majority and they came to this area as part of conquest, like the christians after them.

The Arab minority in Israel, which amount to over one million souls ( 20% of the total population) has been undergoing a process of islamization and “Palestinization” in the past few years which has brought it much closer to Fatah and Hamas positions in their conflict with Israel. The leadership of the arabs in Israel has submitted a list of demands that if adopted, would put an end to the Jewish nature of the state. More about the enemy within at : http://xrl.us/bi3hx

Just look at one "small" incident. We gave them Gaza, took every last Jew out of there, many of whom are still in temporary housing, and left a plethora of working greenhouses. What was the first thing the Palis did when they went into Gaza ? smashed the veyr greenhouses that could have provided them with work, incomes and a little pride in their achievements. They would rather kill and destroy any day, over trying to build their economy. Try reading recent history.

Than that faced by other minorities here? Are you serious, Yoaz Hendel? Go to Biram and wander around in the ruins of that village, read the Supreme Court ruling that awarded the villagers their village back, and then believe that all of them should be fighting on our side against Hizbullah? And not mourn on the Day of the Nakba? Which world are you living in? Fantasy land.

Sarah B’s posts are always riddled with blatant lies. For example: From the First Aliyah (1882) to 1943 Jews acquired ownership of approx *7%* of the land of BM Palestine. UNSCOP (United Nation Special Committee on Palestine) published a collection of reports in 1946 detailing land ownership in Palestine between 1944-1945. On page 566 it clearly records: Ownership of land in Palestine as of 1st April, 1943 Arabs and other non-Jews: 24,670,455 Dunums Jews: 1,514,247 Dunums These reports are a matter of public record and anyone can verify this fact. Can Sarah B back up her silly notion that Jews owned the majority of land in BM Palestine before 1947 with detailed stats from a internationally recognized report(s)? Of course she can’t. It is a matter of record that Palestine's arable land is under is 17% of its total area yet: In 1700 there was 231,000 Christians/Muslims and 2,000 Jews in Palestine. In 1800 there was 268,000 Christians/Muslims and 7,000 Jews in Palestine. In 1890 there was 489,000 Christians/Muslims and 43,000 Jews in Palestine. Clearly this ‘desolate and uninhabitable’ land sustained a large Arab/Muslim/Christian population before “Jews came and cleared the swamps and pushed back the desert”. All of the above stats are based on census figures/accepted historical estimates/etc and can easily be Googled. Can Sarah B reference any reliable and accepted source(s) of information to back up her ridiculous claim that Palestine was devoid of people/sparely populated before ‘the Jews came’? No she can’t. I have already shown that Arabs/Muslims held/owned the lions share of land compared to Jews in the 1940’s Sarah B has yet to produce any facts/stats/reports/etc to back up her lame claim that Palestine was devoid of people before the influxes of Jews into the region. If Sarah B cannot back up any of her daft claims with any facts what does that make her? To sum up: In modern history/for hundreds of years Palestine had a sizeable majority of Muslims and Christians living all over Palestine before the influxes of Jews in the late 1880’s. Sure it would be nice to believe that Palestine was empty and Jews rushed in to make the land ‘whole’ again however recorded history shows otherwise. Sarah B if you wish to be taken seriously I would suggest that you provide reliable facts and statistics from recognized sources to back up your claims that: 1) Jews owned the majority of land in Palestine compared to Muslins/Arabs before Israel claimed independence 2) The land was “desolate and uninhabitable” and generally devoid of people. How hard can it be to back up a mere two points with some substance? I only make these observations lest some reader believes the nonsense you come out with.

Why don't you read Mark Twain's "Innocents Abroad?" He writes quite a bit about Palestine. No melons. No barley. No grapes. Just a lot of desolation. Until the Jews came. Moreover, the West Bank that Israel found in June of 1967 is testament enough to the fact that the Arabs destroy, not build. Everything lush and green in Judea and Samaria has Israel to thank for it -- the Arabs never raised or nurtured a damn thing. You are living in the throes of a delusion if you believe otherwise.

and frankly we dont care. whatever happened between our grandparents and parents. your property rights. arab dignity and other bs. we dont care about anything. what we care about is our families security and we see that your presence compromises that security. so be prepared when the time comes you will get your chance to win this land back.

Could it be Angela that you are just an acolyte of the 5th columnist against Israel or you are part and parcel one of them? So teenagers fervor and zeal for a genocidal antisemite (or two) comes from what happened in '48 when, not incidentally, they set about on terminating the Jewish states's very rebirth? Yes, dear Angela, could it be that your sense of history (or its falsification) just tries to justify hienously the misplaced loyalties for tyrants and fundamentalist jihadists? Are you a supporter too Angela?

"All of the above stats are based on census figures/accepted historical estimates/etc and can easily be Googled." If your information is so reliable, post the links to the "consus figures" and "historical estimates" so readers can follow-up. Don't be lazy Matty. People will suspect you gathered this information from unreliable sources you're ashamed to identify or you made it up.

The argument about what percentage of land was owned by Arabs/Jews in 1948 is of secondary importance. Primarily, the fact is the sovereign state of Israel still needs to be accepted along with RECONCILIATION by the other side and I don't see that happening any time soon.

"Slink away?" From what? A fraud who hides behind a Fairport Convention song? Oh, that'll really happen. Dream on. You consistently fail to produce a reliable link. You consistently fail to "debunk" anything I have written -- well, it is kind of hard to debunk the truth, "Matty," isn't it? The Jews raised Palestine from the dead. The Arabs -- few in number, and mostly Bedouin -- were fathers of the desert, not sons. They allowed their sheep and goats to close crop whatever greenery there was, and then when it was all gone, they moved on, and promptly did the same thing again. Sustainable agriculture and Arabs? Not friends. You are just so blinded by your hatred for Jews and Israel that you cannot see the truth. But that's your problem, not mine. I do, however, wish you a very blessed Easter holiday.

Sarah B just can’t produce the goods can she? She claimed, without providing any sources/refs for these BS claims, that: “At the time of the founding of the modern state, the Jews owned by far and away the majority of land [...] until the Jews came and cleared the swamps and pushed back the desert and made that desolate, sparsely populated land lush and fertile, the land was considered uninhabitable. Less than a handful of Arabs owned property”. I have shown and provided reference sources to the fact that: 1) Jews owned a mere 7% of the land prior to the founding of Israel. 2) Jews were always a minor minority ethnic community in Palestine while this ‘desolate, sparsely populated’ land supported and sustained hundred of thousands of Muslims and Christians BEFORE the first influx of Jew. Sarah B has not and cannot disprove any of the stats/facts/information that I have provided. Sarah B has not and cannot provide any respected or recognized sources of information to back up her silly BS claims. I have provided all the necessary reference info that you need to verify the stats and facts that I cite. Are you like Cynthia and inept at verifying this information which is in the public domain? Clearly Sarah B is delusional as I have rubbished her, unreferenced, claim that “the Jews owned by far and away the majority of land”. Just look at the UNSCOP Reports Sarah B they clearly show that you are talking crud and you cannot dismiss nor disprove these reports. I am not going to waste time repeating myself or the stats/facts that Sarah B cannot disprove. Suffice to say Sarah B has: 1) Utterly failed to back up her BS ‘claims’ with any reliable facts of sources. 2) Totally failed to disprove any facts or stats that I have presented. The only thing that Sarah B can do is stew in her own empty self-ignorance, she has no valid comeback. Poor thing...

What exactly was Palestine in 1850? What did it comprise? And also - who was the first person to build a neighborhood outside te walls of the Old City of Jerusalem? Have you heard of the German Templars who settled here in the 19th century? What they found here and what they described? If Jerusalem was so important for the Moslems, why was there no normal road between Jaffa an Jerusalem?

Every Democracy to continue to function freely MUST require of it's ctizens duties ,responsiblities, and respect in return for RIGHTS..This must be enforced for the benifit of all citizens.

This is an excellent article which raises deep concerns that have been raised at different times by other people who were not given adequate attention, etc Israel must act now, ignore outside pressure and prioritise the future survival of its Jewish population. In general, the Arab Israelis are as far as I am concerned people who will never be as loyal to Israel as a citizen should be to his/her own country. Israel must act now and explore various soultions to this most threatening problem, that if remains unresolved could lead to the destruction of its Jewish pepulation. Here are some ideas which maybe painful but essential: A) Voluntary: 1) Offer them enough money and assistance to leave Israel and re-settle in other countries, in coordnation with those absorbing countries. 2) Offer them enough money and assistance to move into the so-called future Fakestinians territories and re-settle there. Research shows that over 75% of them will not agree to do so, as they know very well that Israel will continue to be the only country in the MIddle East where Arabs (be it Muslims or non-Muslims) can live freely and get some of the best benefits available (particulalry Muslim women). There are enough Arab families that survive on the National Security payments that they receive from Israel for being unemployed and/ or having their many children. B) Involuntary: Any one of the above ideas but implemented by force, if we must. There is no place in Israel for their hostile attitudes and actions. We have enough Arabs and Muslims who hate us from outside Israel, We do not need their hatred and threats to our survival inside our country. I am fully aware that such proposed solutions may be amongst other things be received as radical, non-democratic and ethno-centric. However, if this is what will ensure the continuation of Israel as a Jewish state and our survival in general.., then we will have to atleast explore such ideas and similar. I am a Jewish Israeli. I have lived in Haifa (a city with many Arab Israelis) and in different countries aborad. I have always studies, worked and shared my different towns of residence with Arabs (be it in Israel or abroad), some with whom I became friend. I have studied Arabic and like and appreciate many aspects of the Arab cultures. I also hope one day to travel safely in Arab countries throughout the Middle East. However, despite my respect to the Arab people (be it in Israel or abroad), I have over the years had to painfully and with increased sorrow accept the fact that they will never accept our right to live in peace in our country. As much as I respect them, we now must negotiate a 'divorce' as this 'forced marriage' stopped working long, long ago. They have their roots in Arab countries, we have ours in Ancient Israel to which we returned. They can live in anyone of the dozens of Arabs states and beyond, that are spread over millions of KM2, we have no where else to go and only about 20,000.00KM2 to survive on.

Funny how you yourself inadvertantly show that Palestine was indeed but very sparsely populated during the 19th century with a mere 200.000 or 300.000 inhabitants, where there now easily live 10-11 MILLION people, i.e. 7 million Israelis (including over a million Arab citizens) and some 2-4 million "Palestinians" (= Arabs).

Matty, you're repeating yourself instead of disproving Sarah's statements. It's obvious you've made little progress in your on-the-job Zionist training program.

With all your statistical population up to 1850, you forget a couple of things: 1 Britain gave away 77% of Palestine to create the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan in 1922. 2. Under the UN partiton plan of 1947, Jews would only receive about 11% of Palestine while the rest would go to an 'Arab' state in Palestine (which the Arabs refused). After the 1848 war, Israel is only on 17% of the original Palestine mandate.

Come on Matti, You provided the statistical info. The Onus is upon you, not Cynthia. As she asks, please provide actual and specific references from which you garnered the information. Was there a census for any of those periods, if so who carried it out? If there was no census how was the count done?

it was it is it will be forever forever the land

Your population figures for Palestine up to 1850 give a false impression because you do not mention the fact that 77% of the Palestine mandate was given to the Hashemite Kingdom of Transjordan (now Jordan) in 1922.. Further, the 1947 UN resolution followed the Peel commissions formulation that the 11% or so of what was left of the mandate be given to the Jews as they were the majority in that area and the rest was to be given to the Arabs of the area where they were a majority. Jerusalem was to be an International city controlled by the UN. The Arabs refused the offered state and in the ensuing war which they started they lost about 6% of the land originally allocated to them. Israel after the 1948 war only consisted of 17% of the original mandate. By the way, please give accurate references to your population statistics. Were there polls done? If so by whom?. Bernard Russell and Alexander Scholch? I don't think so. They simply guessed. Thats how their figures were arrived at?

"The Arab Exodus …was not caused by the actual battle, but by the exaggerated description spread by the Arab leaders to incite them to fight the Jews. …For the flight and fall of the other villages it is our leaders who are responsible because of their dissemination of rumors exaggerating Jewish crimes and describing them as atrocities in order to inflame the Arabs ... By spreading rumors of Jewish atrocities, killings of women and children etc., they instilled fear and terror in the hearts of the Arabs in Palestine, until they fled leaving their homes and properties to the enemy." -- The Jordanian daily newspaper Al Urdun, April 9, 1953." Every effort is being made by the Jews to persuade the Arab populace to stay and carry on with their normal lives, to get their shops and businesses open and to be assured that their lives and interests will be safe."-- Haifa District HQ of the British Police, April 26, 1948, (quoted in Battleground by Samuel Katz). "The mass evacuation, prompted partly by fear, partly by order of Arab leaders, left the Arab quarterof Haifa a ghost city.... By withdrawing Arab workers their leaders hoped to paralyze Haifa."-- Time Magazine, May 3, 1948, page 25. Many arab notables and top politicians at the time regretted that they had circulated false rumours that women had been raped and other atrocities had taken place. When confronted with the reality that no rapes had taken place, Hussein Khaled, a Palestinian leader, said "we have to say this so that Arab armies will come to liberate us from the Jews". Hazam Nusseibi, a journalist at the time, told the BBC years later that the deliberate fabrication of the rape charge "was our biggest mistake" since it caused the Palestinians to flee in terror. Many examples along the same lines can be quoted. And don`t forget that the refugee problem was created by a war initiated by the Arabs. Hazam Nusseibi, who worked for the Palestine Broadcasting Service in 1948, admitted being told by Hussein Khalidi, a Palestinian Arab leader, to fabricate the atrocity claims. Abu Mahmud, a Deir Yassin resident in 1948 told Khalidi "there was no rape," but Khalidi replied, "We have to say this, so the Arab armies will come to liberate Palestine from the Jews." Nusseibeh told the BBC 50 years later, [in 1998] "This was our biggest mistake. We did not realize how our people would react. Israel and the Arabs: The 50 Year Conflict," BBC. Secretary-General of the Arab League Azzam Pasha made clear in an interview with the BBC on the eve of the war (May 15, 1948): “The Arabs intend to conduct a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades.” for more on why the Palestinian "exodus," in his Arabs, Edward Atiyah, secretary of the Arab League office in London, wrote: "This wholesale exodus was due partly to the belief of the Arabs, encouraged by the boastings of an unrealistic Arabic press and the irresponsible utterances of some of the Arab leaders that it could be only a matter of weeks before the Jews were defeated by the armies of the Arab States and the Palestinian Arabs enabled to re enter and retake possession of their country." And from the Near East Arabic Radio, 3 April 1948: "It must not be forgotten that the Arab Higher Committee encouraged the refugees to flee from their homes in Jaffa, Haifa and Jerusalem, and that certain leaders . . . make political capital out of their miserable situation . . ." and from Habib Issa, writing in Al Hoda, on 8 June 1951: "The Secretary General of the Arab League, Azzam Pasha, assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade... He pointed out that they were already on the frontiers and that all the millions the Jews had spent on land and economic development would be easy booty, for it would be a simple matter to throw Jews into the Mediterranean.

Mahmoud Abbas, the current President of the Palestinian Authority stated in the official journal of the PLO, Falastin el-Thawra in March 1976. 'The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionists, but instead they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe.' (the Wall Street Journal; June 5, 2003).

Thank you for your articulate and impeccably researched posts.