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Tears, commotion at massive haredi protest
Shmulik Grossman
Published: 17.06.10, 19:41
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61. NUMBERS chapter 12 !!! the black & the white ...
avi   (06.17.10)
Moshe's wife was not sepharadit but KUSHIT, very truly BLACK, and for her slender, Myriam became WHITE, "AS WHITE AS SNOW" (btw, where is there snow to be found in the Sinai ???).
62. #56: Correction; my apologies
Steve   (06.17.10)
Emanuel is a town in Shomron; not the school in question. My apologies. You say there are religious principles involved and there are families that do not conform to the regulations of the school. What are these egregious violations of Torah law, so much so that Ashkenazi parents feel compelled to remove their girls from the school?
63. Haredi & Sephardi
Kok HavaKok   (06.17.10)
G-d help us if they had to go to school with arabs and other non Jews
64. notice? no rioting! Know why not?
observer   (06.17.10)
Because the famous feral youth were not there. Even the MKs from Shass abstained. It was a 100% Ashkenazi demonstration.
65. . . . and now, some facts
Shalom Hartman   (06.17.10)
Emanuel is home to a community of Slonimers and a community of Sefardim – the majority of which are not religious. There is one elementary school for girls there -the Beit Yaakov in controversy. Until this law suit came into being, the school had 2 tracks – the religious track which serviced the religious girls i.e. the Slonimers and a handfull of Sefardi girls who are religious – and the non-religious track which serviced the non-religious girls – all of them Sefardim. Both tracks were quite happy with this arrangement. Mr. Lelom, who receives funding from a extreme left anti-chareidi organization, has no personal interest in Emanuel, as he does not live there nor do his family members. His law suit is motivated by an agenda to vilify charedim as racists, and not at all to promote the interests of the Sefardim in Emanuel. 80% of the parents from the non-religious track signed a petition to stop the lawsuit because they are happy to keep their daughters ’segregated’. The teaching staff for both tracks of the Beit Yaakov consisted of Slonimer mothers – those now going to jail – and so Lelom’s victory has left the ‘vicitimized’ Sefardi girls with no teachers and has done nothing to help their education. When this lawsuit began, the Slonimer parents consulted with the Slonimer Rebbe who advised them against mixing the tracks and bringing their daughters into contact with mixed dancing, television, treife etc. The parents sent a request to the bagatz to allow them to explain their position. This request was ignored, and until 1 1/2 months ago, all of the proceedings were based off of information provided by Mr. Lelom. In the meantime, they took their daughters out of school, and started ‘home schooling’ them. The week before Lag B’Omer, the Slonimer parents were subpoenaed to court to deal with their ‘contempt of court’ for not integrating the classes (and for not sending their daughters to a recognized school). In court, the parents explained that their decision to keep the classes separate was not racist – in fact there were Sefardi girls in the religious class! – it was merely a religious matter. One track preferred a sheltered religious approach to education, and the other did not. The court was taken aback by hearing this ‘new’ information and ordered a compromise – that they create an acceptance board with members agreed to by both parties, kick all the girls out of school, re-accept them and place them in an appropriate track via this acceptance board. Lelom did not accept this compromise so the parents were again ordered to send their girls to Beit Yaakov and mix the classes. Despite the fines and threat of jailing, the parents adhered to the Slonimer Rebbe’s advice. They were told that the court would not oppose them if they decided to send their daughters to school outside of Emanuel. However, when they arranged for their daughters to attend a chassidish Beis Yaakov in Bnei Brak – the misrad hachinuch threatened to close the school down if they accepted the girls from Emanuel. The court would not allow the Slonimers to open a private school in Emanuel either. The judge (the only Sefardi judge on the bagatz – hmmm… sounds kind of racist….) stated clearly that he sees no reason why a Rabbi’s opinion should have any baring once he has made a ruling. And he compared this to the ’separate but equal’ and desegragation struggles in the US 50 years ago. The Slonimers have stated clearly that they answer to G-d alone (not to some arrogant man who believes in judicial activism), and compared this to the sacrifice and triumph of the Chashmonaim when the Greeks tried to undermine their Judaism.
66. Cut off from the world.
Only a Gentile. ,   Oxford, UK   (06.17.10)
These Haredim are wrong on so many levels -- as European Jews, they have suffered centuries of prejudice -- now they reproduce that prejudice against fellow Jews of a different colour.( If that is how they treat fellow religious Jews -- how then, would they treat gentiles? ) These Haredim have also recently been demonstrating about the removal of ancient Jewish graves -- now, what colour do you think those deceased ancient Jewish people were? Were the deceased Jews, white skinned Ashkenazim from Warsaw and Kiev and Brooklyn....? Israel and Jewish people are making themselves look really really foolish in the eyes of the world....but hey, maybe it's the world that is just 'anti Semitic' and prejudiced.....
67. Sephardi Haredim survived oppression by Askenazi Zionists
observer   (06.17.10)
look what Spehardi Haredim got after submitting to Zionists.
68. #61 Interesting point
Keren ,   IL-BR   (06.17.10)
Maybe that " white as snow" leper could,among other things,be a reference to something or to some of our people 3200 years later ... An advice could be read in that point...
69. Haredim are just not jewish
Yossef ,   Rehovot, Israel   (06.17.10)
These guys make me feel bad. I feel bad for my brothers and sisters jews from Morocco, Ethiopia, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Tunisia, Libya, Algeria (where I am from), Turkey, Egypt, Lebanon etc. I feel bad for my cousins arabs who live between us, I feel bad for Druzes and Beduins. I suddenly feel completely stranger to these Black-and-white delusional jew-ish. They can go back New-York or wherever, I don't care. I don't understand how they read what is written in our Torah: ואהבת לרעך כמוך
70. #65
Keren ,   IL-BR   (06.17.10)
I do believe there is in all this dirty politics in action. But,eventhough,let´s compare the present reaction from Haredim to the political secular echelon´s reaction to that flotilla of hell. The reactions were the same:impulsive and conter productive. Here,if the Haredim simply had accepted the secular Sephardim girls in their midst,they could had dealt with this new situation healthily. I mean,they would keep their standards anyway,and maybe some secular girls would even get interested and join Torah. And those who not,they would naturally go away and find new alternatives. They gave to these girls more power than they actually have. Our problem,seculars and Haredim,is our Yetzer Hara. By acting with our hearts and livers,we inclusively throw out precious opprtunities to grow together as one people. I think Haredim, in this one ,acted with their hearts and livers and not with their brains. Think about it.
71. A few quotes from the article:
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (06.17.10)
"By the afternoon, about 100,000 people accompanied the parents to the Jerusalem police station where they were ordered to report to, ahead of their imprisonment. The protestors were waiting at the site without rioting." "The Bnei Brak rally was stopped for a few minutes after several protestors fainted. Other protestors took advantage of the break to sing and dance. In Jerusalem, paramedics treated eight for dehydration and fainting." "Shmuel Naimi is one of the parents slated to be imprisoned. His son Shimon, 20, told Ynet that "there is no racism in Emmanuel. The education is better, 30% of the students are Sephardic and there is no such thing as separating between Ashkenazim and Sephardim. It's an argument created because of the crazy media." So, a peaceful mass protest, very much in contrast to small protests disrupted by hooligans. The only people hurt are the protesters themselves - from dehydration, it would seem. No violence recorded. And again, a repeat of the statement, from one who is actually involved in it, that the so-called "Hassidic" path of the school in Emmanuel had 30% Sephardic attendance. No violence. No beaten-up cops. Not even swearwords. Just protesters carrying placards protesting what they see as an unjust ruling. It would appear that Haredim understand quite well what democracy means, including the proper means of standing united against an unjust twist of the justice system.
72. #55
S.A.R.A.   (06.17.10)
this protest has nothing to do with the issue your talking about
73. Left wing court system here in Israel
Leah ,   Israel   (06.17.10)
So they want to jail a few parents who basically want a higher standard of education for their children. What about the LEFT-WING SPY WHO SPIED FOR HAARETZ. SHE WAS ONLY UNDER HOUSE ARREST.
74. Remember Josephus!
Yaron ,   Herzliya   (06.17.10)
He discribed how religious extremists destroyed Jerusalem by refusing the Pax Romana. The majority of the jews wanted to live in peace but this fundamentalist minority refused it...history should never repeat itself. Where are the millions of non chassid Jews? Protect your country against these racists and criminals!
75. Rubber meeting the road.
mea   (06.17.10)
Choosing country over Haredi schooling and prejudice? It had to eventually happen and now it has. This is when the Haredi must either place their allegiance with the nation AS a democracy, or choose to leave and go elsewhere. it is more important than ever that the police and courts stick to their guns because there can be no Haredi set of laws. The fact is, this situation will determine whether or not other Jews make aliyah, because frankly, it has become a huge issue that the religious have taken over Jerusalem. In fact, most Israelis avoid visiting Jerusalem altogether because it is a religious enclave. It isn't right. Stick to your guns, Israel,and do not cave into these people.
76. No one's business
Ephraim ,   Jerusalem   (06.17.10)
We live in a mixed neighborhood. There are many different types of schools; haredi, state religious, secular, etc. Synagogues are either Ashkenazi or Sephardi. Everyone says their children where they chooses. People pray where they chooses. We are religious, but some people don't let their children visit our home because we have computers and televisions. Nobody hates each other, they just all decide for their own family how they want to live and how they want to raise their children. I DON'T GET IT!!!!!!! WHAT"S THE PROBLEM?
77. The men should all go home and take a shave.
Latrina Goldfarb ,   Thornhill, Canada   (06.17.10)
78. Talula #7 abd Johnny # 20
i ,   jerusalem   (06.17.10)
I am chareidi ( sort of) and I worked my bones tired today, and I had no problem getting home. The roads through Rechavia to Begin were clean and green.
79. Yaron #74: You make an incredibly lousy argument
Steve   (06.17.10)
You are driving people like me away from your postion. You say, remember (the Jewish traitor) Josephus and Pax Romana! I am not suggesting the Jews should have rebelled. That is another issue. Just as we had Pax Romana and Roman occupation of Israel, today we have "Pax Americana," with American hegemony over Israel's Jews. In order for there to be "peace," (you infer) Israel's Jews must commit national suicide by establishing a Muslim-terror state in our land. Like I said, you make a lousy argument.
80. #65, I recommended your talkback bc it is informative, but..
Jake ,   USA   (06.17.10)
..I think you are missing one key problem with the Haredi position. These are public schools. The state court has the right to decide what goes on in a public school. The Haredim can't have it both ways, on the hand sending their kids to state funded schools, and on the other hand opposing the state and the rulings of its court. Who knows, maybe this will push more Haredim to become active citizens of Israel. I doubt it, but I hope.
81. Note the Jpost article:
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (06.17.10)
http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=178759 Or some select quotes: " Earlier Thursday, demonstrators in Jerusalem and Bnei Brak heard prayers from rabbis and speeches from the parents, while many demonstrators carried signs saying "I am a Sephardi haredi too."" "One of the parents, a Sephardi, addressed the rally in Jerusalem saying, "Yesterday my little boy told my daughter that because of her dad is going to prison. I picked him up, kissed him and said that not because of the girl but thanks to the girl I am going to prison. It is our opportunity to sanctify the name of heaven." Is it still a matter of racism, folks? Some of those Sephardi Haredim are now going to prison. The Supreme Court ruled that these Sephardi Jews are racists because they don't want to study with other *Sephardi Jews* who are less observant than they are! Get the absurdity of it yet?
82. #80 They're not public schools, Jake.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (06.17.10)
Israel has several courses of public schools - National (essentially secular in its entirety), National-Religious (schools following National Religious/Modern Orthodox religious stream with general public school curriculum as well), Nation-Arab (public schools with an Arab cultural focus, as well as Muslim and Christian religious content). The school in this particular case is in the category of Recognized Unofficial School - essentially private schools that have been deemed suitable, having fit certain registration and acceptance criterias, to receive partial funding from the local municipal council. They are not public schools, but they do receive some support. The school in question in Emmanuel did try to convert itself into a fully private school without any state funding to alleviate the state pressure that began with this trial, but this failed. Further, the parents who wanted a separate, more religious framework tried to move their children to a school in Bnei-Brak, but the Supreme Court threatened to take away license of any school that would accept these kids, regardless of its state funding. The Supreme Court wants to force the parents to remain in the school in Emmanuel, and for this school to operate exactly like the Supreme Court wishes. They've turned it into a show of force, and I think they've long since abandoned the laws as written, focusing solely on appearances.
83. Ethnic separation
,Nina ,   Florida, USA   (06.18.10)
Steve Klein, You very correct. I am also asking "Why?". It's unimaginable that one group of Jews would be prejudiced against another group of Jews. We are all the same people
84. 110,000 march
Jim Brown ,   TN USA   (06.18.10)
I suppose they all receive hand-outs from the state. This is the reason they can muster large crowds because none of them work or serve in the IDF.
85. #82, I didn't realize they weren't public schools
Jake ,   USA   (06.18.10)
They do however receive state funds, so the court has a say. I just wish it were possible for Haredim to sit in the same class as Mizrahim, and I can't believe that we are having this problem at a time when the entire world is ganging up on us. There is a school in Tekoah called "Achdut Yisrael", and I hear that the classrooms have kids from all backgrounds learning together (that is -- long payot, short payot, knitted kippot and velvet kippot all in the same classroom). That is the spirit of Judaism. It does seem that the court has a vendetta against these Haredim, but neither party is right - IMO. Thanks for your input, I appreciate it.
86. #85 Tekoah's a more ideals-based community.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (06.18.10)
And from what I gather, as small communities go, they're fairly close together. So that works out for them, I guess. But within larger towns and cities you have numerous communities, cultures, and levels of religious belief. I think part of post-Exile Judaism is our differences. We were spread far and wide. We evolved customs, religious rulings, language and culture. We're all part of a Jewish whole, but we are different facets of it. Some Jews wish to preserve their facet of the Jewish whole, and see nothing wrong with it - sometimes that means people study at different schools, but does that mean our differences separate us? They can, if we let them, but I think they can make us stronger if we work together at upholding both our common grounds and that which makes this and that community more unique.
87. #85 As for arguments - Jews fight each other constantly.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (06.18.10)
It's sad, and yet it is also very consistent. We even fought each other when the Roman legions were besieging Jerusalem. That's certainly one particular tradition I don't want to preserve.
88. Looking at this picture
Benny L.   (06.18.10)
Looking at this picture, I wonder if Abraham, Isaac or Jacob would have arrived to register their kids at chareidi schools, if they would even have been accepted as Jewish!!! Certainly not Ashkenazim!! Ha, ha!
89. Seculars should be out there as well. Want forced religious
Lemmings Hotline ,   sd usa   (06.18.10)
education? This is about Supreme Court overstepping its rights into personal freedom. And notice that there is no constitution to say what they do is unconstitutional. WAKE UP CHILONIM, YOUR NEXT.
90. To Johnny in Nazareth...
Nicole Czarnieckiova ,   Baltimore, USA   (06.18.10)
Amein, ahki. The Haredim are the main influence of the non-Haredi Jews; a.k.a., the main reason why the majority of Jews do not want to be associated with any kind of more-traditionalist Modern Judaism, or even any kind of Judaism at all. By the way, I'm a Messianic Jew who has done a lot of personal and other research on Haredi and non-Haredi relations, Modern Judaism vs. Biblical (i.e., Karaite and/or Messianic) Judaism, and other Jewish matters. So, I see that Judge Edmond Levy did the right thing in the face of what the Haredim are doing. Also, I'm not here to proselytize, and you can throw "Yemach shemo" toward me all you want. But I will throw in my two shekels and say that because of judges like Edmond Levy, 'Eretz-Yisra'el looks a lot more like Ha'Eretz-Tzion-v'Yerushalayim that Theodore Herzl envisioned and that was refounded in 5708 (that is, than it would if the Haredim were more in charge than they are now.).
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