The only people who don't are Jews and Zionists which constitutes a minority . People agree with you, but are simply scared of openly saying so.!

the palestinians did not ask to be occupied, and whereever you get occupation you will get resistance and the security measures the israeli government put in place to protect its citizens has only imprisoned them, there are no winners with this scenario.

The mandates of the [now defunct] League of Nations are still in force by virtue of the UN adopting them, and they rely on the UN to give them force of law. You appear to assume that the mandate is irrevocably, that the UN lacks the power to modify it, which it clearly has done through numerous resolutions since 1949. And, even if they are irrevocable, the League of Nations mandates were “in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people” - with the operative words "national home", not a State, being intentionally ambiguous - and that the establishment of such a home was always "without prejudice" to the rights of those already living there, i.e. the Arabs.

#1 is generally right, but he/she should have specified more fully: It was the Jews' land, but it is not now, and has not been since 135 AD. At that time, they were expelled and scattered worldwide by the Romans as a tangible manifestation of the Divine Will. I have no evidence that God's Decree has changed. Therefore, Jews have no rights to any sojourn in the Holy Land except perhaps on temporary and very limited Muslim/Christian sufferance.

DOESNT KNOW WHAT JEWISH LAND IS. IT IS WHERE ABRAHAM IN THE BIBLE PUT ISAAC ON THE SACRIFIICE ALTER. ITS WHERE KING DAVID WARRED WITH CANAAN BY GDS ORDERS TO WIPE OUT SINNERS GREATER THEN SODOM. ITS WHERE JACOB SLEPT HS HEAD ON STONE IGOING UP THE LADDER. ITS KING SOLOMON THEJEW..BUILT THE TEMPLE I resist saying this but even that xtian mangod jeseses.. a jew was born.... where were the arabs? they were nomads traveling. waterhole to watehole with their camels and goats making war stealing property....chasing JEWS ye[ even the xtians chasing them ... iSRAEL was divided at Mt Sinai into HEBREW TRIBAL TERRITORIES SUCH AS JUDEA AND SAMEREA WHICH the arabs and xtians like to call west bank. jordan, most of it was Jewish Israel. COPY AND PASTE THIS,PUT IT ON YOUR FOREHEAD.... AND REMEMBER JEWS WAS IS AND WILL BE THERE...FOREVER DACON9

You are correct that the UN lacks the power to modify the mandate. That is exactly what the UN Charter states. Article 78 The trusteeship system shall not apply to territories which have become Members of the United Nations, relationship among which shall be based on respect for the principle of sovereign equality. So the day that Israel became a member of UN (11 May 1949) the mandate ended and with it the authority of the UN to modify the mandate or anything else dealing with it. So each and every single UN resolution passed since that date has been ILLEGAL according to international law. As for the Arabs - only those that were LEGAL residents had the right to stay. Over 80% of the so-called 'Palestinians' living there were not residents having been in the region less than two years. None of their descendants qualify either, which only accounts for about 99% of the Arabs. Try reading

in contrast to emet there is sheker that which is false dishonest and misrepresentative if the pursuit of hashem and torah is the pursuit of emet and the foundation of the society depends upon emet then sheker is the negation of all these pursuits,dishonesty is considered a corrosive personality trait that will lead to animosity and hatred amongst men and ultimately will cause the destruction of society (maharsha shabbat 104a) the torah commands us from a false matter you shall keep far (exodus 23:7) you shall not steal neither shall you deal falsely nor lie one to another (leviticus 19:11) a human who tells lies will not be in hashem´s presence (see sotah 42a from psalms 101:7) just as hashem delights in emet sheker is abominable to him (proverbs 12:22) and the wicked man does the work of sheker,our sages examining the way emet and sheker are written saw the following contrasts the letters of sheker close to one another in the alef-bet (the letters kuf reish and shin are in sequence) whereas the letters of emet are far from one another (aleph mem and tav are the first middle and last letters of the aleph-bet) because deceitfulness is common and widespread (easy to do according to the yalkut breshit 3) whereas truth is uncommon (difficult to perform according to the yalkut) and each letter in the word sheker rest on one leg while the letters of emet rest on a base of two legs because truth stands forever but falsity will not last (shabbat 104a)

When I was a boy in Brooklyn in the 1920s and 30s I had an aunt who went every year to PALESTINE. The Roman province of Filistin is partitioned today between Israel and the remnant called still Palestine. It serves today's defenders of the illegal occupation to display their ignorance of history but I am still here to set them straight.

kylie does not sound like an native aborriganal name. jews of the west bank have more rights to the land than i am sure your white ass has to australia.

Obviously, you need to convince everyone at the UN that all the resolutions passed since 1949 are illegal. Good luck with that! And while you’re waiting for a reply from the UN, perhaps you might want to address the third paragraph of my post at #33. Do you understand what “without prejudice” means? If you’re so concerned about international law: why don’t you petition your government to lift the illegal blockade of Gaza? The UN doesn’t recognise Israel’s blockade either under international law. Or is the UN only valid when Israel wants something?

I would like to oblige you by being your enemy or opponent ( which is how you come across as perceiving me, given your allegation that I personally am an illegal occupier in NZ even though the British crown has a 170 year old treaty with all Maori tribes outlining each parties rights and obligations in respect to living here in NZ ) in a battle about treaties and history but I don't know enough to take sides . My point was about the hopeless state of Israeli public relations and the seeming inability of Israelis to say much more than ''what about'' and ''anti- semitism'' World opinion is not about anti-semitism. It is a product of the competition between clever ''in- touch'' Palestinian PR versus clumsy alienating self defeating Israeli PR. I've seen ''paid for'' adverts in NZ papers placed by Jewish organisations in which they publicise Israels relief work in Haiti etc and follow it up with '' we had to place this advert because the press is biased against Israel and doesnt want to tell you good stuff about jews '' ...or words to that effect. Now seriously ...how lame is that.! If they put that effort into persuading a church to turn off its lights for a minutes silence as a humble plea to ( by implication -the heartless upper-dogs ) Hamas to let Gilad Shalit telephone his parents.... you'd have every parent in New Zealand in tears for an Israeli soldier.

Obviously, you need to convince everyone at the UN that all the resolutions passed since 1949 are illegal. Good luck with that! And while you’re waiting for a reply from the UN, perhaps you might want to address the third paragraph of my post at #33. Do you understand what “without prejudice” means? If you’re so concerned about international law: why don’t you petition your government to lift the illegal blockade of Gaza? The UN doesn’t recognise Israel’s blockade either under international law. Or is the UN only valid when Israel wants something?

This latest effort from Israel to convince everyone that Israel has a bad image because of bad PR is utter nonsense. Israel doesn’t have a bad image because of bad PR. The flotillas aren’t setting off for Gaza because Israel has bad PR. The world doesn’t object to Israeli occupations because Israel has bad PR. Israel has bad PR because Israeli PR is all about polishing turds - and even a polished turd is hard to sell. And those objections have nothing to do with support for any action of Hamas. As for the effectiveness of Israel’s PR: for years their spinmeisters have been doing a great job of stitching up the US public and their politicians.

first they'll get Arabs to wear red crescents and then Sepharads to wear dark David Stars and then the Ethiopeans to wear chains around their necks. Does Israel screen its potential citizens from Europe or does it allow Nazi scumbags with basically no Jewish blood who are driving by free land?

I come to wonder why is the perception in Israel so distant from what most western media portrait? It seems to me like the Israelis are living in a controlled information environment...just like the communists. I cannot understand how a good Christian or Jew, when it comes to principles though by respective books, come to support Israelis inconditionnaly. Or perhaps "slaves from neighboring nations" has more weight than a commandment. You tell me righteous people.

Anybody who says the Jews have no rights in ANY land needs to take a step back think about what they are saying. If this is the prevalent view in the world today, then we are heading for a second Holocaust. If building Jewish homes is now seen as "provocative", then you are stoking the furnaces and priming the gas chambers all over again. The message is clear, the aim of Hamas, Hizbollah, and Iran is to eliminate nearly 6 million Jews from Israel, and whole world blames...the Jews! COP ON WORLD!!

It is not the Palestinian Authority that forbids Jews to enter Ramallah, Nablus or Bethlehem or elsewhere in Palestine. Jewish friends are always welcome.. We have met up in Palestine and demonstrated together in Bil'in. We have attended meetings in Bethlehem etc. etc. It is Israeli authorities telling Jewish Israelis not to go to the Westbank. Of course Jewish colonists and landgrabbers, the vandals carrying out 'price tag' operations, cutting down olive trees or intimidating Palestinian citizens are not welcome. Segal's articles usually stand out because of their poor quality, but this one is partcularly pathetic, childish and untrue.

You scream international law - right up until the moment that it is proven that either the international law doesn't exist or that it doesn't say what you claim. I have in fact proven everything I have said - using real international laws that you can read for yourself. What do I think of the UN - it is a racist society that has systematically violated international laws when it come to the Jews and Israel. As for 'without prejudice' try that with the Arabs that ethnically cleansed the Jews from their homes. The blockade is not illegal. Name one single international law or treaty that states that! You are a liar. International law and several treaties make it legal. Again you fail with your lies international law does not agree with you. The Geneva Convention, San Remo Martime Treaty and the Oslo Agreements ALL disagree with your claim. So instead of screaming your stupidity try reading the real international laws - they are readily available on line.

Their aim is to reclaim Muslim/Arab land from a European Jewish colony...but being Irish yourself you wouldn't understand would you? You have already forgotten about Northern Ireland or you just gave up on it.

Being Irish, I am well aware of what colony is and it is NOT Jews in Israel. The Jews are tied to the land of Israel just as the Irish are tied to Ireland. Both peoples have a diaspora dispersed all over the world. Both peoples fought the British to reclaim the land. It is interesting that you assume Israel is Muslim/Arab. Try reading history and you will find it is the Arabs who "colonised" Israel. Arabs come form Arabia (surprise) and Jews come from Judea (suprise) so Jews belong in Judea otherwise known as the West Bank. And oh of course the Irish come from Ireland in case you can't yet understand the name link between peoples and land origins. As for Nothern Ireland, anybody keeping up with the situation there will know that there is a peace process in place where neither side wants to annihilate the other. Something which Hamas, Hizbollah, and Iran have yet to accept. Again when someone wants to kill Jews, the world blames the Jews. It has been the same right through history.

Bottom line: in 48, 67,73...all the legal definitions of what makes a sovereign nation, fell by the wayside,when Israel fought for its existence. Read Michael Orens book, The Six Day War,and Joan Peters, from Time Immemorial,for reference to this conflict. Had the Jews lost one war, they would be history. No Jew would survive the Muslims. As long as Israel has a believable deterrent, (400 nukes, etc.) and doesn't implode (Haredi vs secular), Israel will survive. It's that simple fellow Zionists and Arab fantasy believers. The 48 War changed everything, including the partition plan. If W. Jerusalem were now Arab..would they talk? If Syria were in Haifa,would Assad want peace? All this rhetoric is nonsensical. The Muslimswant Israel out of existence. They want every Jew dead. They are laughing at us for believing otherwise. Get it. If Turkey could defeat Israel they would have sent their army. They know Istanbul would be wiped off the map. Iran,knows Tehran would suffer similarly. That is why they (and Egypt) do not launch their missiles, relying on Hez/Hamas to do their dirty work. Don't complicate it...they want us dead.

The “San Remo Manual” applies only to hostilities between states; Gaza (and Hamas) is not a state; therefore, only the Geneva Conventions apply. The blockade of Gaza depends on Israel conceding that it is occupying Gaza and is in an international armed conflict with Hamas. But Israel doesn’t want to do that, because it would then be bound by the rules of belligerent occupation in the Fourth Geneva Convention, which it violates. Seeing as Israel insists that it is not currently occupying Gaza, it cannot claim that it is involved in an international armed conflict with Hamas. And if it is not currently involved in an international armed conflict with Hamas, it cannot legally justify the blockade of Gaza. The laws are quite clear, Gee, as you’ve pointed out, and Israel is, and has been for a long time, violating them. Why do you think the world objects to Israel’s occupations of the West Bank and Gaza and Jerusalem? Do you think it’s because everyone is an anti-Semite, that everyone wants to prevent the Jews from protecting themselves? No, Gee, it’s because of what they do, not because of who they are. Grow up.

Political zionism was a colonial movement to create a Jewish state in the whole of Palestine, but that demanded the disposssession ot its native population, the Arabs of Palestine (Muslims and Christians and the small Jewish community). Your assertion that the Arabs of Palestine came from Arabia is too simplistic for words. That implies that Palestine and the whole Middle East was empty before the Arabs poured out of the Arab peninsula in the 7th century to conquer the Middle East. What happened was that a relatively small, but highly motivated army conquered EXISTING peoples in the Middle East. Over the years these people became arabised culturally. Although Christians and Jews were 'people of the Book' it was more beneficial to convert to Islam, which is what happened in Palestine (although a sizeable minority of Palestinian Christians remained). Regarding the Jews, there always was a small community of non-Zionist Jews in Palestine. These people were of course part of the population of Palestine. Their connection was purely spiritual. The movement of political Zionism was a completely different ballgame. Political Zionism originated in the 19th century, the age of nationalism and colonialism. It was a classic colonial settler movement. The people in it came from Europe and had NO physical association with Palestine. Most of the colonists were part of Jewish communities, that converted to Judaism. Their only connection to Palestine was a spiritual one. The early Zionists, as you may know, were quite secular. They enlisted the help from the Briitish empire to colonize Palestine. Even Ben Gurion, the foremost Zionist leader, in a book he authored together with Yitzhak ben Zvi (later to become president of Israel), acknowledged that the fellaheen (farmers) of Palestine in their villages in the remote valleys (wadi's) were the descendants of the ancient Hebrews. He was inclined to incorporate them in the Jewish state as sources of cheap labour, but changed his mind, when the natives resisted the aggressive land buying practices of the Jewish colonists. They would buy land from absenteee landowners (like the Sursoks in Beirut) and then throw the Palestinian farmers of their land. It was this kind of practice which provoked the first resistance of the Palestinian natives already at the end of the 19th century. The Zionist leaders managed to recruit the British empire to facilitate their colonial venture in Palestine (Balfour declaration of 1917), but the British came to regret this. They faced the anti-colonial struggle of the native Palestinian Arab population culminating in the Great Arab Rising between 1936-39 (in which thousands died). The Zionist movement turned against its erstwhile protector and Britain gave its mandate back to the UN. In 1948 by force of arms the Zionist movement dispossessed the Palestinian people, driving many into exile and the diaspora. Phil, if I would be Irish I would be most offended by you comparing the struggle of the Irish against the English with that of the Jewish Zionists in Palestine. The latter came to Palestine as part of a colonial settler movment. I do not know what your background is. Part of the support for the Zionist project in Europe and the USA comes from protestant Christians, who interpret the Bible literally and support the 'restoration' of the Jews to Palestine, even though this has nothing to do with historic events. But that is a different topic to discuss....

Israel can and does consider Gaza to be a hostile state. Second Israel does not have to concede the lie that we are occupying Gaza to blockade it. It says no such thing. The Geneva Convention states that we must be acting as the government of Gaza to remotely be considered occupying it. Do you really believe that we are the government in Gaza? Are you that stupid? Yes the laws are very clear - we are obeying them and the rest of the world isn't. You have stated a couple of laws which do not state what you claim. Why don't you read the laws as written instead of lying about them. The Arabs are illegally occupying our lands, not the other way around. That is international law and you have yet to prove otherwise.

You say my assertion that the Arabs of Palestine came from Arabia is too simplistic and imply that they are in fact "arabised peoples". I think you will find that the "Arabs" of Palestine are indeed ethnic "Arab" and not arabised. Most Jews who immigrated to Israel come from a long line of Jewish descendants. They are a Semetic people and are ethnic Jews. Conversion to Judaism was always small as to do so would hold little benifit and more than likely a lot of persecution. Jewish communities around the world were more likely to convert to Christianity than the other way around. First you say these alleged "converts" had only a spiritual connection to the land, but then you contradict yourself by saying they were quite secular. Secular people do not have spiritual connections. To say that in 1948 the Zionist movement dispossessed the Palestinian peoples by force is ludicrous. Israel was attacked by force from Arab states and the displacement happened in both directions as some 600,000 Jews fled Arab countries into Israel. As for the Irish connection, the Irgun worked with the IRA to try to hasten the British exit from mandate Palestine. This may insult certain people but facts are facts. So your assertion that I am shockingly ignorant, really indicates that you obviously hold too biased a position to judge. .

Israel’s dark regime has freely admitted that the idea of the blockade is to punish the Palestinian people of Gaza for their support of Hamas (to put them on “a diet”) which is a violation of international laws of humanity (Geneva Conventions). The Gaza blockade, which Israel claims is to keep Israel secure by keeping weapons out of Gaza (that is, when Israel’s leaders aren’t joking about it “putting the Palestinians on a diet”) restricts 75% of all manner of goods entering Gaza and 100% of all exports out of Gaza. Also, according to the UN World Food Programme, 80% of Gazans, half of who are under 18yrs old, depend on humanitarian aid and a bare minimum of 400 truckloads per week is required but Israel has allowed only an average of 171 trucks per week to enter Gaza. As a direct result of these harsh measures, 10% of children under 5yrs old in Gaza suffer from malnutrition and anaemia for children under the age of 5yrs is estimated at 48%. How does causing small children in Gaza to be sick and starving help make Israel more secure? How does restricting all exports out of Gaza help prevent weapons getting into Gaza? The blockade by Israel is not about keeping weapons out of Gaza. Israel has long been a world leader in the detection and prevention of cross-border weapons transfer, which is why weapons have always been smuggled into Gaza through tunnels. And weapons are still being smuggled into Gaza through those tunnels, just as they were before the blockade. The blockade of Gaza, along with Hamas suddenly being put on the list of terrorist organisations even though they had been in existence for 18yrs, was imposed only after the free election of 2006 when the people of Gaza voted for Hamas instead of (Israeli-endorsed) Fatah. The blockade of Gaza is collective punishment of the Palestinians of Gaza by Israel’s the dark regime - and collective punishment most definitely is illegal… by civilised standards anyway. Though perhaps not by your barbaric standards, Gee.

Your entire claim is a lie. According to the Geneva Convention we cannot only totally blockade the coast, but close all of our crossings as well. There is another border that can supply Gaza - we are required to supply absolutely nothing at all. Talk to Egypt they too have a border. Besides the fact that not a single person has ever starved in Gaza. That is another fact. As for your lie about 'suddenly' putting Hamas on the terrorist list. We and the US have had them on that list for 18 years now. Yes a minority of the people of Gaza did vote for terrorists to lead them. Germany voted in the Nazi party, Italy the Fascists, etc. What is your point? The blockade of Gaza is legal under all international laws. Try reading the Geneva Convention on collective punishment - you will find that terrorism is listed as one those collective punishments. Your ignorance is showing again.

Perhaps Mr Segal has lost sight of the fact that the entire world, apart from Israel, considers the West Bank to be territory occupied by Israel, and the settlements to be in violation of Section 3 of Part 3 of the fourth Geneva Convention. I can't see that any Israeli living in any of the illegal settlements has any right to complain about any restrictions to which they may be subject.

In my last post, at #57, I must have placed my points in the wrong order which is why you didn’t grasp them… or else you’re being wilfully dense. Anyway, I’ll do it again backwards [and I’ll write slowly] so you might be able to understand about collective punishment and the blockade of Gaza.. The blockade was imposed on Gaza only after the free election in 2006 when the Palestinians of Gaza elected Hamas. [The reason why only a minority of the people voted for Hamas, as you rightly pointed out, is because the majority of the Palestinians in Gaza (i.e., more than 50%) are under the age of eighteen so didn’t even get to vote.] Israel has said the blockade will be lifted when the Palestinian people stop supporting Hamas, who they elected. This is a political objective, and imposing a blockade for political objectives is against international law. The blockade of Gaza is not about keeping weapons out of the hands of Hamas militants. Since 1988 Hamas has always armed itself with weapons smuggled through tunnels (because of Israel’s excellent abilities to detect and prevent cross-border weapons transfer) and the blockade has done nothing to address the continued smuggling of weapons through the tunnels - 5000 rockets in the past eighteen months alone. Dov Weisglass, an advisor to PM Olmert when the blockade was first imposed, said, “the idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger”. So you’re probably right, too, about no one actually starving to death in Gaza. That was the “idea” - not to kill them, just to punish them… collectively. The Palestinians of Gaza have always relied on humanitarian aid to survive (80% of them now, in fact, which is more than Somalia). Israel allows in only 25% of the goods it had permitted into Gaza before the Hamas takeover. Before the blockade, Israel allowed an average of 10,400 trucks to enter Gaza with goods each month. Israel now allows approximately 2,500 trucks a month. This has nothing to do with stopping weapons getting into the hands of Hamas. It is about punishing the people of Gaza… collectively. Keep in mind, Gee, that most of the people of Gaza are under 18 years old and didn’t vote for anyone. Keep in mind, too, Gee, that the people most affected by the blockade are children under the age of 5, who aren’t able to even comprehend the conflict let alone lend their support to Hamas in any shape or form. Since Israel imposed the blockade and restricted the amount of humanitarian aid entering Gaza, the rates of anaemia in children under 5 years has soared to 48%, and ninety-five percent of Gaza's water now fails WHO standards, leaving thousands of newborns at risk of poisoning. So, explain how making small children sick in Gaza helps keep people in Israel more secure. Looks more like a contravention by Israel of those laws of humanity that are meant to protect children and expectant mothers. The blockade also restricts all exports out of Gaza which has resulted in 98% of industrial operations shutting down and caused massive unemployment. How does preventing the export of all goods out of Gaza help stop weapons coming into Gaza? Looks like punishment… collective punishment, again. Anyway, hopefully this helps you understand why the world opposes the blockade of Gaza, and why the people taking part in the flotillas believe they are doing the right thing. You will find that my arguments here are actually based on well published and established facts, while your own arguments are based on a twisted version of the truth, at best, which has been fed to you piecemeal by the dark regime in Tel Aviv.