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Gaza flotilla organizer: We'll sue Israel at ICJ
Aviel Magnezi
Published: 23.06.10, 21:13
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31. Ignorance of "international law" doesn't stop them
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, USA   (06.23.10)
Amazing how many morons there are who can barely spell "international law", yet who claim to know what is or is not consistent with it. Here's a primer: Blockades and quarantines are legitimate and legal instruments of war. Gaza is in a declared state of war against Israel (as is, by the way Lebanon). The blockading power is permitted to challenge and board any who demonstrate intent to run a blockade, even in international waters. And any civilians who challenge those maintaining such a blockade automatically lose their protected "civilian" status. Those who claim otherwise are just demonstrating their own ignorance. Free Gaza has absolutely no legal basis for their claims.
32. They should not have been released/deported
Truth Hertz ,   UK   (06.23.10)
They were caught trying to break the blockade that is position to prevent hamas terrorists in Aza from receiving shipments of Iranian weapons, which they will use to murder Israelis (and any palestinian who does not submit to their rule). They should have been put on trial in Israel for the crime of aiding and abetting terrorists in their attempt to murder innocent Israeli citizens.
33. @15 Are you sure you're a lawyer?
Doobie ,   New York   (06.24.10)
Pretty flimsy argument for a lawyer. 1) The video evidence doesn't show israeli commandos attacked by terrorists. It clearly shows a turkish ship being attacked by israeli commandos and helicopters. It shows the ship's crew defending against the attack, as soon as the soldiers hit the deck (as soon as the attack began), with any means at their disposal. 2) The evidence clearly indicates that this occurred in international waters. For you legal experts out there, the law of the sea allows attacking merchant vessels who run a blockade, BUT expressly forbids attacking humanitarian aid ships in international waters under ANY circumstances. Period. 3) The evidence shows that it was indeed a humanitarian aid ship. There were no weapons (guns/missiles) found on board, just humanitarian aid. The "weapons" used, knives from the kitchen and metal pipes, are not contraband in any way. In fact, the only weapons on board the ship were the guns carried by Israeli commandos used to kill during their premeditated and ill-conceived attack. Would you really have us believe that organized terrorists would plot to combat the IDF forces with only metal pipes? 4) In keeping with points 1-3 which demonstrate illegal warfare, the fact that personal property and the ships themselves have been stolen by Israeli forces lends further credence to the piracy narrative. In particular the theft of cellphones, camcorders, and computers also demonstrates an attempt to destroy evidence and circumvent the discovery process. In conclusion, IF you are really a lawyer, it looks like you got your J.D. from the University of Phoenix Online.
34. fair and honest
John ,   US   (06.24.10)
Anyone who does a fair and honest assessment of the situation can clearly identify the lying going on by those who aren't fair and honest. I have seen the hypocrisy and it amazes me that most of the world leaders just simply don't like Israel. I don't know if that is because the Koran instructs its followers to love all Jews...oops my bad, it doesn't say that. If I was a lying political guy I could understand why bashing Israel would make sense, because it help with political popularity...just look to the PM of Turkey for the example to my statement.
35. I just don't get it!
(06.24.10)
How it is that the "freedom" loving radical left has managed to marry itself to the ultra-conservative Islamist right? Don't these people understand that they are just being used? Oh what a minute perhaps its just all about anti-Israel anti-Jewish hatred?
36. :: I trust this will be the...
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (06.24.10)
...first of many law suits brought before the ICJ. If nothing else it will keep attention on Israel’s collective punishment of the people of Gaza.
37. @31&29, Read the Manual More Closely
Doobie ,   New York   (06.24.10)
You guys need to brush up on your reading skills. I suggest you read the entire manual, instead of just the line that sounds good to you. Here's what the manual ACTUALLY says. 67.a) (you like this part) Merchant vessels cannot be attacked in international waters unless they are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture. Which is fine, except they aren't a merchant vessel, they're a humanitarian aid vessel, and they have no weapons on board other than the knives in their kitchen. And now the part you forgot to read: 136 The following vessels are exempt from capture: i) vessels engaged in humanitarian missions, including vessels carrying supplies indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, and vessels engaged in relief actions and rescue operations; Not to mention: 102. The declaration or establishment of a blockade is prohibited if: (a) it has the sole purpose of starving the civilian population or denying it other objects essential for its survival; or (b) the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade. And ALSO 103. If the civilian population of the blockaded territory is inadequately provided with food and other objects essential for its survival, the blockading party must provide for free passage of such foodstuffs and other essential supplies Next time do your homework, geniuses.
38. I am me!!!!!
cristian ,   arg   (06.24.10)
one mistake more of once charm things about that after i am sorry do not follow me already i do not want to use this disguise in this story i am not a sheperd i want to be the fierce wolf do not insist me i go to very brief being nothing affects me does not matter for me the lost alone time i am he eats you see me it does not matter for me the lost alone time a prisoner who went away does not import for me the lost time great tango for it does already you see it one mistakes more of once charm things about that after i am sorry do not follow me already i do not want to use this disguise in this story i am not your saviour even who i am nor insist me i go to very brief being nothing affects me!!!
39. Does Greece have enough money for that, or another bailout?
Shimon ,   London   (06.24.10)
Greeks should worry about their own business. Their country is bankrupt and they are worrying about Palestinians. What a joke.
40. No.14 are you out of your mind?
Dan ,   Jerusalem   (06.24.10)
You say to Israelis: 'Urge Kurds to dedicate themselves to annihilating all non-Kurdish Turks.' Are you suggesting that Israelis should plan annihilation of tens of millions Turks? Are you suggesting that Israelis are genocide masterminds? Plus, this article is about Greece and you are from Greece. It is the Greeks who are attacking Israel with those silly ships and then sueing Israel.
41. Who is this "brainiac" Doobie? Response to #33 & 37
oxo ,   USA   (06.24.10)
Doobie, lets stay with the facts: 1. Vessels were clearly warned they were approaching a blockaded area. Five of the vsls responded as they should have, the problem was with the vessel carrying the Turkish AGITATORS. 2. Boarding a vessel is not "attacking" especially when the boarding party carries paintball guns and sidearms instead of the usual assault rifles.. 3. Metal pipes, knies, clubs are all weapons and can kill. The first few soldiers on board were clearly outnumbered and their training immediately kicked in resulting in neurtralizing the situation ASAP with 9 attackers killed ASAP. I find this highly commendable as only a professionally trained military can achieve the upper hand so quickly. Note: nothing like this happened on the 5 other ships, they were actually peaceful. 4) Item 136 - "claiming" to carry humanitarian supplies does not mean carrying humanitarian supplies. This might apply if a credible entitity such as the Red Cross actually was in FULL CONTROL of the vessels. 5) The goal of breaking the blockade is to ship in heavy weaponry on future vessels. No country the size of Israel, esp. Israel surrounded by huge hostile neighbors can allow this. 6) Items 102/103 does not apply. Egypt has a land blockade with Gaza. Israel does not----allowing electricity, water, food and other essentials into Gaza. I suggest you take a trip to Gaza. It is not starving by any standards. While over there see how many luxury cars are driving the streets.
42. Used Their Credit Cards
Mike Oxbent ,   USA   (06.24.10)
Classy.
43. the truth
cristian ,   arg   (06.24.10)
leave me you to make a wish remain a moment i am losing you it is like that we are like a desert without water without breath to survive your love it makes me enter you know well that it is like that i knew it from always leave me to ask for another desire you wait for a moment these getting lost the sun goes out but it does not dawn neither is water under the bridge in my soul i wait for your voice every minute forever forever your love makes me enter in the middle of the abbys your love makes me enter you know well that it is like that i knew it from always
44. #37 Doobie you are so amusing.
Topsy Turvy ,   US   (06.24.10)
Play the devil's advocate and try to construct some arguments that Israel can employ and you MAY see a different picture altogether. Within the narrow confines of your imagination you have already tried and convicted Israel already based on the few lines you read. Are you a pub lawyer?
45. International law
Captain Zen ,   Philipsburg Netherla   (06.24.10)
When will Israel understand it is all alone in its misplaced fear? In its great fear it makes incorrigible mistakes and it must pay for it. The world is bigger than Israel alone.
46. #33..37..COMMON SENSE IS MISSING FROM YOUR LEGALESE RHETORIC
ABRAHAM ben JACOB ,   CANADA   (06.24.10)
DOOBIE, YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN OR DISPROVEN ANYTHING IN YOUR SATEMENTS HERE ON YNET. WHILE YOU ARE BEING CRITICAL OF OTHER YNET POSTERS REGARDING THE " REAL LAW " AS YOU SEE IT; YOU HAVE ALSO MISSED MANY CRUCIAL LEGAL POINTS AND YOU HAVE MADE NO REAL FACTUAL LEGAL IMPACT. SIMPLY STATED, THE LAW AS INTERPRETED BY YOU IS BLATANTLY PRE-DETERMINED BY YOUR OWN POLITICAL STANCE, YOU INTERPRET THE " LAW " THE WAY YOU WISH TO SEE IT INTERPRETED. THIS DOES NOT MAKE YOU RIGHT........... RATHER IT IS REALLY YOUR OWN PERSONAL OPINION BASED ON YOUR OWN INTERPRETATION BASED ON PROR BIAS AND PREJUDICE.
47. If you sailed to Iran, you would lose your lives not bags!
(06.24.10)
just try sailing a ship to Iran in a protest agsainst the Iranian dictators' treatment of Iranian studensts and journalists and workers in jails who are being raped, sodomized and tortured for the smalles protests and you would end up in the same jails getting raped and sodomized. any wonder these people are instead protesting why a democracy is defending itself against Iranina terrorist regim and its puppets like Hamas and Hizbollah?
48. Thoes who sail with terrorists can't expect anything better.
(06.24.10)
49. #36 - I'm sure it will be too, and lawyers will profit
William ,   Israel   (06.24.10)
First, there have already been many suits brought to the ICJ right after Cast Lead, and each of them...one by one...were either dismissed or the suit rescinded. The burden of proof became too heavy for the plantiffs who had to contend with the many war crimes Hamas committed, as it basically supported Israel's defense. Same too in this case where many suits will be brought, and they will drop...one by one, again. No one in Gaza will benefit, the self-righteous Leftist wingnuts will be poorer for their efforts, and the blockade will continue until Gazans get their act together. ...and the lawyers will celebrate with caviar and champagne.
50. #33 - Sounds like you're toking a "doobie"
William ,   Israel   (06.24.10)
Pretty flimsy counter-argument you have which seems based more on your personal opinion than on the law. The video was pretty clear. Before the soldiers ever hit the deck, or even had a weapon drawn, they were attacked, pulled down, and beaten/stabbed. The IHH was quite proud of that act - they even presented their own videos, and the Egyptian MP boasted about it in Parliament the following week. Soldiers simply boarding cannot be considered an "attack" except in your mind. I remind you that 5 other boats were boarded, there were no shots fired or violence, and it all ended peacefully. 2) The San Remo convention allows the boarding of ANY ship - not matter the type - in Intl waters, if: there is an intent to break a war-time blockade OR there is suspicion of contraband on board. Both were the case here. 3) Video evidence of guns and other crap being thrown overboard. Check. Forensic evidence showed casings of bullets which were NOT the type used by IDF soldiers. Were they there from another voyage in the past or just "planted" by the soldiers?? 4) Not stolen, confiscated. These ships attempted to run a legal war-time military blockade and they're lucky they left with their life. For now, the property remains with Israel. Apparently, Peter's JD from "University of Phoenix" trumps your JD from Wikipedia.
51. #37 - You just proved the point of the Israelis
William ,   Israel   (06.24.10)
HAHAHAHAHA - thank you Doobie. You just underscored the exact argument and gave it legitimacy. Let's back track for a moment. Besides the "activists" claiming they were delivering humanitarian aid...what proof do you have it was? The good will of the IHH? The past honesty of the Free Gaza group? The honest looking faces of those on-board? Even if they were bringing cement, which the Rachel Corrie did attempt, it's CONTRABAND. 102: You are attempting to guess that the blockade is in place to starve the Gazans..yet NOT ONE PERSON there has died from starvation. Why? Because absolutely everything they need (and don't) already came through the tunnels, filling every food stall and shop across Gaza. Check out stories by CNN, BBC, Maan, Financial Times - ALL of which cite NO real humanitarian crisis. Infact, so much is in Gaza right now that tunnel operators are closing up because they just can't make enough money with dropping prices. Kick the weed, dude. It's fried your brains.
52. #11 - Gaza is not a sovereign entity
William ,   Israel   (06.24.10)
Their laws do not apply, whatever they are. Until the future of Gaza is decided, Israel is in charge of the region, as well as, the West Bank. Yes - Israel left Gaza years ago, to give them a chance to build a State themselves and prosper. Rather, Hamas declared war on Israel and the blockade went up. Israel is not considered an occupier here but rather the military power controlling the borders until Hamas ends it war, which it has declined to do for 3 years now.
53. 33-Doobie
Farfurfan ,   farfustan   (06.24.10)
1) The video evidence clearly shows IDF commandos BOARDING the Mavi Marmara (one of six vessels) and being ATTACKED by its passengers (the only one of the six vessels); 2) There was NO humanitarian aid on Mavi Marmara, only the "passengers"; 3) see point number 2) In addition, the crew tried to stop the "passengers" from cutting up the railing for weapons and the "passengers" disobeyed the captain and crew's instructions, considered a criminal act on the high seas; 4) In your points 1-3 you failed to demonstrate illegal warfare. Property confiscated, such as computers, cellphones and video equipment, are evidence in a criminal investigation against the Mavi Marmara passengers. Your accusations of "illegal warfare" and theft have no legal basis whatsoever. Your comments exemplify exactly why a cynical propaganda ploy by the flotilla organizers is finding so much sympathy: emotionality in jumping to conclusions, ignorance of facts, absence of critical approach to sources of information and ad-hominem attacks against opposition.
54. Doobie #37 I did read the entire manual
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (06.24.10)
Sorry but the most of the ships carried no humanitarian supplies so they did qualify as aid vessels. So Article 67 does apply. As for Article 136 - it doesn't make them exempt from inspection. Article 102 is total nonsense. Article 103 has no relevance since Gaza is occupied by Arabs. According to Geneva Convention Art. 42. Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised. So there is no occupation by Israel. Try again, this time actually read ALL the facts. You failed across the board
55. Raymond
Noor ,   Palestine   (06.24.10)
It seems like anyone who is ignorant of the law of nations is you. Blockades are legitimate. HOWEVER, the blockade must be continuous and this particular blockade has not been continuous. Last year and I believe the year before, activists broke the siege. So yes, blockades are legit, but the must be conducted properly. If not, blockades are no longer legal.
56. ERDOGAN=HER,DOG.AN.us
Dav ,   Miami, USA   (06.24.10)
Sendsterrorists to attack Israel, and he is going court, to sue them' pour baby...
57. Impeach the criminal erdogan and his bloody regime.
Joshua Bernstein ,   San Jose, USA   (06.24.10)
Turkish regime occupies Kurdistan. Kurds deserve freedom for their country. Erdogan regime murders women and children in Kurdistan to prolong the illegal occupation of these brave people. Israel should not sell Heron drones to Turkey since these are used by the criminal Turks to spy on the Kurdish freedom fighters.
58. antisemitsm Makes Strange Bedfellows
Frankie Littlehammer ,   New Herstal, TX, US   (06.24.10)
Between 1916 and 1923 the Turks expelled 1 million Greeks from the Turkish West Coast. The Turks came to present-day Turkey about a thousand years ago, but Greeks had been living there for three thousand years. The Turks held Greece itself occupied and enslaved for hundreds of years. But now we see Greeks joining Turks to fight Israel. antisemitism makes strange bedfellows indeed. Or maybe too much Turkish blood entered Greek veins during the long occupation. Professor Pissias, your computer is in Turkey. A Turkish soldier was surfing the Internet with it but got so frustrated with the Greek characters on the keyboard that he didn't pay enough attention and shot a Kurdish teenage girl instead of a Kurdish terrorist.
59. no sir, it is your comprehension skills that need work
walt kovacs ,   los angeles, califor   (06.24.10)
the majority of the ships in the flotilla carried no aid...that included the mavi marmara they therefore could not have been considered humanitarian in any sense of the word by their own statements, the organizers were engaged in actions to breach the blockade and how was israel to know if they carried any contraband if they were not allowed to search the vessels? trust the turks? lol
60. What a joke!!
Johnny ,   Nazareth   (06.24.10)
Greek people concentrate on your economy that is in the toilet! you might also say bye bye to the Euro zone!! I've been in Greece, it's full of these so-called "Anti Global" far left fascists! What a joke!! LOL
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