Your thinking is so uniquely independEnt, that even your spelling is independEnt..

You can't have unquestionable pagan-like power over your victims unless you control everything. Want to see a woman, you must believe the Rabbi. Want a job, you must believ a Rabbi. Want to have a family, you must believe a Rabbi. If you disagree you will?....If you scoff, you will? If you do not accept you are defamed? Riddiculed? Accused of capital punishment crimes? Clearly the need is not to check and assure the pupils learn Torah but rather make an example, demonstrate power, and take away ones freedom if they disobey. Even if they are learning false additions? Cult classics in action. When will the Hebrews be free? When they stop being friars and do real Torah? When will they apply Devarim 13 tests to these claims of Yehsiva and Rabbis? When will they guard Torah as commanded?

So what, he made a spelling mistake. Can't you think of anything real to mention? Pathetic!!

insurance coverage which is expensive for teenagers are under the authority of the parent or Yeshiva Rabbi or other guardian. When the youngsters are paying their own way and working and are adults by decision of a court, then they can choose to get a driver's license when they come of age for that. When I was a teenager, my parents allowed their children to get drivers' licenses to drive to school since the buses were not available; but the slightest infraction of the law (warning or ticket) got the driver's license put into Papa's wallet for six months. My sister Martha got a ticket for going through a yellow light before it turned red and AllState Insurance company cancelled the auto insurance for the entire family. Get a clue. Children are not adults but adult guardians and parents suffer the consequences of the children's actions.

was fulfilled by Rabbi Yeshua and after that the Ruach HaKodesh entered the hearts of people writing the Torah laws on their hearts. Some are applicable today and others are not, depending on the situation. While literal death by stoning is no longer observed for certain sinful offenses, the heaviness of depression from separation from the Lord's original plan for your life because of sin is a sort of death of the spirit and a severing of wholeness. The Ruach HaKodesh leads people in the instructions of the Torah that are to be obeyed. Read the book "On Health and Holiness" by Hezekiyah Haas to understand that the food laws people mock and disobey are meant for health not deprivation. Try eating an armadillo, even a cooked one, from Texas and you will likely get leprosy since it harbors the leprosy bacterium. If it has eaten a centipede or blackwidow spider, you will die from eating an armadillo, an unclean animal. Eat pork and even if it is cooked, the parasites in it can cause trichinosis which mimics other diseases such as a coma, fibromyalgia, etc. You may not die form it but you will be miserable for decades because the doctors make too much money to tell you what you are suffering from. If you don't get well, they have a patient for decades. If you eat the other garbage foods forbidden in the Torah, you will get toxic heavy metals that lead to cancer, Parkinson's, arthritis, and other diseases. If you have homosexual sex, you are more likely to get anal cancer, HIV/AIDS, and other STD's which are no fun at all and certainly not in your best interests. Better to have sex only in marriage with only your spouse. You can do what you want but there is a price to pay. One of the costs is that disobeying the Torah habitually and without remorse indicates the Ruach HaKodesh does not dwell in you and you will suffer eternal separation from the Lord. Not amused? You must not have a funny bone. I will be laughing at the people who brings such horrors on themselves who mocked me for being a chosen frozen stick in the mud lover of the Torah.

How do you understand desecrating the sabbath? Are Jews really unable to move on the sabbath:I mean, what constitutes work? Someone who does work on the sabbath gets the death penalty! You and your ilk are ignorant of Judaism. And yes, there are historical sources pre-Rashi that say exactly what he says. No, Judaism did not change with the times. The greatest proof that the torah never "fit the time" is the law of shmittah, where the land had to lay fallow for the coming year, without having a cycle of food to work with. Do some research people! and you may become more intelligent. Oh. As for a series on the proof that anything that claims religion based on the Torah without the Talmud is false OUTREACHJUDAISM . C O M (which mainly attacks christianity but deals with the other faiths as well) sells the series, "LET's GET Biblical". Try it. Educate yourselves.

I do not see this as newsworthy at all, this is nothing new. I attended both Litvish and chassidsh yeshivas in the USA back in the 60s and 70s and this was the rule back then too. Those who wasted time renting cars, going to movies, watching TV and other frivolous activities were called Bums and do not belong in Yeshiva. These are the ones who should be in the army or doing national service. For the silly TBers who see this as old fashioned etc. I will simply say that a Yeshiva student role is different than a University student. Yeshiva students have one priority in their time in Yeshiva and that is to learn Torah. They have no time to be out renting cars and going on Tiyulim, that is good for University students and those who finished Tzava and others who have no purpose in their lives other than to empty out their heads and fill them with fresh air. If the only way to discourage Yeshiva students from breaking rules is to expel them then so be it. Yeshiva students are supposed to have higher goals in life, there is plenty of time after they are married to go get a drivers license.

if the Humanistic values are derived from the Torah , then all the Western values are . Following your "thinking" , those who murdered our people did it also in name of the Torah Laws .

catholic church who diverted from the lord word in order to practic paganism, we basically have the same holidays and pray from the same books. we all know the true meaning of the temple and much like joshuah and jeremiyah the prophets the temple will be rebuilt again.

As a yeshiva student myself, I don't think its very funny at all. I have a license and a car in yeshiva and I could definitely see why its banned in some yeshivas. The whole point of being in a yeshiva is to devote yourself completely to studying. Having a car is inevitably going to distract you (yes out distracts me too).

I never read TBs without clearly defined paragraphs and a point – I skimmed over his TB and saw only incoherent mumble jumble without a point - NEXT! : )

It's quite simple - the Yeshivot receive money from the education ministry, from parents' school fees and from donations in order to allow young men to dedicate themselves to the study of Torah. Those who are out taking driving lessons, etc are abusing the money invested in them and therefore are not worthy of being in the yeshiva.

You see , all extreme fanatics are bad , very bad . They only make others be fanatics in the opposite direction . I'm quite sure that you were'nt so fanatically anti religious as your writings show . But because of those fanatic religious people , you have become so . I know a very religious Man , not only in his beliefs , but also in his ACTS . In his home i don't need to wear a kippa when i have a drink or a piece of cake . For him it would only be hypocrisy or comedy . A small point . He prefers honest people , even if they are secular . But he is a TRUE believer , not only for the show . Thanks to him , and others of his kind , i can say that there are GREAT religious Jews , who deserve respect . And this contrary to some of our "friends"

1) In your posts, you bash the secular and American way of living as almost an abomination. Yet, you fail to mention that they have the right to do it - they are not bound by Torah. True, they are bound to Seven Noachite laws, but, when you think deeper, they are also your choice - you take them and you are a righteous gentile, you drop them and you are not. So, you are judging upon one system through glasses of other and making a same mistake mullahs, for example, do, when they do it to Judaism, Christianity or secularism 2) Agree with you that atheism is just a form of religion. 3) Temple mitzvot - they are SUSPENDED, but not ABOLISHED, no? :) Alas, I agree that Avi's argument a is stupid - after all, when you burn a goat, bull, or a sheep, is smells BARBECUE and it is everything BUT displeasing odor. :) 4) 25:44 Bamidbar, slaves of other nations - isn't that there true word for "slave"? For there are 2 kinds of slaves in Torah, Jewish ones and non-Jewish ones? 5) Death penalty for Shabbat is abolished - true, but isn't Rambam's verdict in, I think More Nevuchim (don't hold my word, I say it from memory) that these persons, WITH THE BLASPHEMERS, are the people who do not fall on "abolition", but should be put to death? 6) I will answer Ariel about shellfish and homosexuality: YES, eating shellfish is LESSER abomination, since the punishment for eating shellfish is not established (there is treaty about non-kosher animals and their influence on your soul) and the punishment for homosexuality is death. Hence - the homosexuality is bigger abomination since the punishment is terminal and you cannot repeat the sin or make repention - you are dead. :) 7) SOME football are made from pig-skin. Now not joking. That's why all buy football made in sweatshops by under-aged and underpaid Muslim boys in Muslim countries, to be sure they are... kosher. 8) Poliester/cotton, etc... I thought it is only for combination of wool and lan? Shatznetz? Does it apply for other? Anyway, you are talking with ex-dati, now fully fledged Masorti, who fasts on Yom Kippour and semi-fasts on Tisha B'Av (drinks one cup of water) to simbolize that these two days are not the same. But that's just ME, for MYSELF and in MY HOUSE. :)

to #29: not sure i understood what the heck you are trying to say here, but first of all, being that rabbinical judaism is the accepted form; our rabbis and sages are authorized to apply the torah to the times as the times change, being that they are steeped in wisdom and knowledge, much of it passed down in an unbroken chain from generation to generation, rabbi to student, father to son, for thousands of years - but then again, perhaps you should enlighten us about why you are qualified to be a rav posek.. and by the way, i do follow much of rav kooks teachings, not that you would know,being that youve never seen me or met me... to #30: first on all, regarding the shoah, i have one word for you: HITBOLLELUT. should i say it again? clearly the lessons of the shoah were lost on you, perhaps your generation is a lost cause, but the younger generation certainly understands...jews were never meant to act like the nations, and everytime we try something horrible happens, when the jews of western eurrope decided that for the first time in history, en masse, that the laws and commandments somehow did not apply to them, when the jews decided it would be better to be germans or whatever, than it was to be jewish, what do you know, something horrible happened to them...and in fact, it wasnt all horrible, because every jew that died in the shoah, whether he was rightious or wicked, ALL of them are sitting in HaShems "right hand" in an incomprehensibly delightful paradise, because they died kiddush HaShem... so it was both justice and mercy at the same time, the very definition of what HaShem is... and you dont believe in miracles? what do you call life on earth? the human body? the cycle of life? ah, thats right, were all just an accident... and the definition of bias media is when they search for isolated incidents, then pounce on them and make them seem like the norm...yes some ultra othodox behave very poorly, but who said i condone this? that is your assumption, the last time i checked this article was about drivers licenses, something ynet felt was a headline (hmmm) and finally charlie, i served as a warrior in the army of this country, and continue to do so in reserves, so i guess you are pretty damn ignorant...and by the way, the MAJORITY of officers in the idf are from religious backrounds nowadays, not from the kibbuzim, so tell me, how does your hat taste? to #31: did it ever cross your mind that i chose to spell my name the way i did intentionally? to charlie (#44) - what on earth makes you think that if you were a guest in my home i would make you wear a kippah? do you know me? to #45: yes i bash the secular and american way of life, and yes, they have a right to do it, what i am bashing is when jews in the jewish land try to emulate them and preach that their system is the best ever, and anyone who doesnt act like a hedonist is evil and ignorant - we should and must act as we have been commanded, and believe me, if we were to do that, the nations would see how much better our society is, and they would be the ones emulating us, and that is what is meant by a light to the nations, not shamelessly copying them and importing thier wickedness... lastly, just to make it clear for everyone, i am a baal tshuva who lived the first quarter century of his life as a secular among seculars, so i know of what i speak, and now that i am religious, i still do not fall into any mold, i make my home among the national-religious folks but have many haredi beliefs - all of these divisions are left-overs from exhile, and are destined to disappear eventually, beezrat HaShem.......

You've heard that joke too?

I doin't think so . As i wrote it already , the rules at this yeshiva apparently forbids it . They did'nt obey , were expelled .

You need to do some serious soul searching here, buddy. You definitely owe Ariel (from Sao Paulo) an apology for saying he is an "uneducated non-Jew," because if he is indeed Jewish, you may have done an extreme act of chilul HaShem. You can't go around claiming that someone is or isn't Jewish by what they write. That's quite tasteless. From what I read, and knowing the Brazilian Jewish community as well as I do, I would be most inclined to say he could be a liberal (unaffiliated or Reform) Jew. Also if I remember him correctly from other posts. As a Baal Tshuvah, you have to be very careful not to fall into the trap of ga'avah and sin'at chinam. Tzom kal!

...you do it is very tense, very hostile and, if I may, patronizing. In any case, it is as full of anger... And you get other effect: remember that "patronizing" and "Torah" do not go in the same sentence, even in Pirkei Avot it is stated that. Now, this was not criticism, this was just a remark... 1) Just info - OK, you are a baal teshuva, I am worse - I was a secular, then became baal teshuva, religious, for about 10 years, and lately I would be best described as "masorti" :) Reasons are very detailed and long and, some part, private, but suffice to say is that I was disappointed in datim and haredim and their behavior. You would never see they miss the muscle when they place tephilim, never miss an hour for shahrit, the melodies, sound everything - perfect. But they watched their back and only their back. They never helped fellow Jew nor they gave ever tzedaka, even for Jews (not to mention goyim). And yes - they were always self centered and smug being full of themselves, probably thinking they will be first in Olam haBa. I do not want to go to same Olam HaBa as they go. And I do not want to believe that G-d is shallow so much to allow these people to enter heaven, simply because the MECHANIC of their Judaism was supreme. 2) Shoa - I disagree with you. You failed to see that the most concentrated areas of reform Judaism and assimilation centers were in USA, which was, as you know, not touched. Also, you will be surprised to know that most of the seculars of Europe took sanctuary in USA and similar countries before the Shoa. Therefore - Shoa stroke on the traditional orthodox communities, mainly Ashkenazi, and stroke through "pious" people. My belief, according to what I know, was that their prayers turned to their demises. As it is said "...there are these who pose as sacrificing lamb, but sacrifice dogs, who come to temple, but at home bow to idols! These I will make perish..." (I think Izaia, not sure...) For example, I have a fact that people in my country before Shoah sold non-kosher meat and killed animals while suffering - and others knew that and by silence condone it! And if you think - it is logical! You can take the contract and be a Jew, but then be fully a Jew, or you can drop the contract, assimilate and not get the ultimate prize - but at least, you will not have a problems. So hitbollelut... I do not know... I am not quick to judge as many I know. Problem is that concentration camp lists were made from documents collected in synagogues and communities. Go to Prague, and go to Golden Synagogue. Ask there about the famous story: there were 2 communities in that synagogue. One hated others guts. When Heidrich the Butcher occupied Prague, the list of Jews was hidden. BUT! One part of community came to him and gave him names of their brothers of opposite camp. What they didn't know - the opposite camp was doing the same! Heidrich butchered both of them. Tisha beAv will be beautiful day not only when we will mourn what we lost, but when we will forgive our persecutors, for they were G-d's tools, and take lessons about this all.

We all know decent loving respectful of others, religious folk. It is those that represent the true face of Judaism - not those sickos who plaster the pages in Ynet calling seculars all kinds of lovely names because they don’t conform in ways THEY see fit. They misrepresent Judaism in the worst way possible. A true Jew respects others and, as you say, respect their honesty above all. Such a pity these religious losers don't follow their lead. Most of the Plebs who write into Ynet don't even live here, and should therefore be completely ignored. There are proper Jews (those that live in Israel) and Diaspora Jews <- they are the armchair Diaspora proxy Jews who like to stick their nose in to our country’s affairs - they are the Jews who don't mind our boys fighting to keep this country for them to holiday in (but not their sons) and they are the Jews who don’t mind generations of Jews keeping the place holder for the next – as long as it isn’t them. They are all assholes - absolutely cannot stand them and above all, do not respect them.

Clearly, you have not reached maturity in order for you to call yourself an independent thinker. You are utterly clueless about everything. I hope you never get lost in thought, you'd probably find it unfamiliar territory. Worst of all, you don't even live here. Why are you sticking your nose in?God you're so pathetic! Take a hike!

to 49: i never said ariel was an uneducated non jew, i said that he had copied and pasted an "argument" against torah that had clearly been written by an uneducated non jew, which is actually quite redundant, i could have just said non jew, being that it is very doubtful that a non jew would be educated in judaism, especially while espousing such ignorant beliefs - being that his name is ariel, which means lion of G-d, it is clear that he is most probably jewish, which is why i was angered by the fact that he was using ignorant postings written by non-jews as some sort of supposed argument against judaism - so in that sense, i do not owe him an apology. in the sense that i must be very careful not to fall into the trap of gaava and sinat hinam, you are correct, but not because i am a baal tshuva, because i am a human being who happens to suffer from a short temper. to 50: you are right, it would seem that i let my animal side triumph over my spiritual side, and was unpleasant in the way that i chose to respond to those talkbackers, whether i was provoked or not is irrelevant, on tisha beav especially i must vow to work on controlling my temper, which is quick to flare when i see such rampant ignorance reigning supreme - i am a human like everyone else, and as such there are certain areas where i must strive, and this seems to be one of them. 1) are you familiar with the quote (dont know who said it) "dont confuse jews with judaism" ? a religious jews mission in life, among other things, is to follow dat yisrael, the religion of judaism, and to emulate what HaShem wants us to do, not to emulate the behavior of the less rightious around us - yes, unfortunately there are many religious jews who have many flaws, but this is certainly no reason to abandon judaism, i feel sorry for you (honestly, and in a non-patronizing way) to confuse the ideals of judaism with the actions of less than perfect jews - but please, tell me, honestly, when you saw religious jews who, for example, didnt give tzedaka (an act that HaShem commands), or were so focused on the minutea that they neglected the bigger picture, did you feel that this is what judaism wanted from them, that this is what HaShem wanted from them, so you abandoned judaism? truly, does that make sense? i say you should have continued to obey the commandments, while helping your fellow jews to understand where they were failing, much as you pointed out to me that i was being patronizing - a point that i accept as valid and therefore vow to strive to work on.... what you must understand is that HaShem also sees where these jews are lacking, and He also judges them accordingly - all of am yisrael has a portion in the olam haba, all those who obey the commandments retain this portion, but there are levels of the olam ha ba - do you think that a religious jew who is careful to place his tefilin in the right place but never helps the poor will reach the highest level? clearly not - they are humans and just because they have accepted the yoke of torah does not mean that they are perfect overnight....and just because someone dons a black cloak and hat does not mean they are a tzadik - if i put on a cops uniform, would that make me a cop? clearly not - to be rightous one must act rightous - your argument that there are religous people who are less than perfect is faulty - people are people are people - and ALL must strive to improve themselves, this doesnt stop just because someone accepts to obey HaShems commandments.

2) regarding the shoa, i shouldnt even have responded, being that this is a massivly complicated subject, but hitbollelut was certainly a big factor - regarding the assimilated in the usa, if you are up to date on statistics you will know that intermarraige is rampant to the extent that in a generation or 2 these jews will no longer exist - whats worse, to die for kiddush HaShem or to stop being a member of the house of israel? food for thought - why didnt the spefaradim and mizrahim suffer in the manner of the ashkenazim? it is clear that the edot hamizrah never abandoned torah like the ashenazim did. but understand, for example, that there are reasons for everything, even if we cant understand them yet (or ever) - just as if you would have tried to explain to a jew who had lived and died as a slave in egypt that without his suffering as such, am yisrael would not have been eventually given the torah, he could never have understood this from his limited point of view, trying to find perfect answers for the shoa a mere 60 years later is absurd. i wish you the best of luck in your journey, and may we have no need to mourn on tisha beav next year.....

Tks for your words. I'm ortodox jewish (bnei akiva) and my sons studies in a ortodox school (bnei akiva). But i think that religion is like sex (an intimate thing that can not become public) Everytime you try to make religious laws public (what the haredi are trying to do) , you are making a hudge mistake (like Ira Hams and Hezbollah) Tzom Kal to everyone

get away from ynet (and internet) and stay away.You should not be in contact with some of these professional haters or exposed to their writings - for your own sake. They try to undermine every decent thing about judaism and halachah with their poison and they've been at it for years, keeping ynet deliriously happy of course. They fail miserably, but they suck in newcomers like yourself. So many decent people out there for you, leave this lot to rot. The rest of us ignore them and their evil bitterness. Kol hakavod for the two red marks you earned. You deserved a third one actually. Now go and find decency, elsewhere.

It's because you can't give an answer that you say that's absurd . Learn History : a great part of the European Jewish victims of the Shoa were TRUE observant and believing Jews , something unknown to you i see . They , mostly did'nt "abandon" tora . And a second point : the Mizrachi'im and Sefaradim suffered too . Not so much in the Shoa , but generations ago . Again something UNKNOWEN to you .

dearest talula, if you had actually bothered to read the things i write you would know that not only DO i live in israel (not going to say where), but i served as a lohem (warrior) in the idf, serving in hebron, bet lehem, gaza, shehem, and more - can you say the same? furthermore, i continue to serve as a lohem in reserves - can you say the same? futhermore, my children will do the same, b'H. where on earth did you get the idea that i dont live here? because i didnt specify in the "city & country" box? i live in israel, pay taxes in israel, and will die in israel. so please get off your high horse.

ariel - if you are religious then you know that the laws of torah are NOT only to be observed in privacy. do you really think that it makes sense that in a jewish state, the political system will be a foreign import? that the political system will force religious jews to desecrate their religion? that the supreme court, which is secular and politically anti-religious will decide for religious people how they must act, and then lock them in cages (which is NOT a torah idea) if they dissobey? that the political system will contemplate dividing jerusalem? that the political system will contemplate giving the land of israel, which returned to jewish hands in a DEFENSIVE war, to an enemy which has sworn to destroy the jews? does it make sense to you that in israel, at home jews will act jewish, but in the public sphere the must act like christians in order to be accepted? do you celebrate hannukah? if you do, how can you fail to understand the similarities to our modern time? and do you think that it makes sense that you will live in brazil and command the jews in eretz yisrael to behave like goyim in the public sphere???? does it make sense to you that the government of the jewish people, in the jewish land, must be mandated to act like the goyim and force foreign culture, concepts, and behaviors down the throats of the jews? please respond, as i tried to be respectful in what i wrote you.. tzom kal

The political system a foreign import ? What kind of import ? You certainly would like to see a "sharia" like system , but by rabbanim ? Where were you forced to desecrate yopur religion ? The Supreme court protects EVERYONE's rights . I think that sometime ago they even gave a pro religious judgement . Lock innocent people in cages ? suspects in prison , nothing else . Or would you like to see suspected murderers walking freely around ? Dividing Jerusalem ? What is your solution for our Capital with her thousands of Arabs who don't want us to be there ? I once asked thisto the Israeli Ambassador in my birth country . His answer : do you have a solution ? Giving the land of Israel : same question : what will you do ? You can act Jewish at home and in public . Can't you walk around with your Talit ? can't you walk around with your Stremel ? [ maybe not your ideal , but othert's ] I live here , but i don't like the way you , and alikes , try to impose your lifestryle on US . Yes , our governement can't act freely . No small country can do it , and certainly not our's . Other countries had to obey to world opinion too . But this you , ignorant of history don't knows .