Jewish Scene
Poll: 74% follow Tisha B'Av tradition
Published: 19.07.10, 16:37
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1. Haredim more hated than Arabs?
martine ,   ashdod   (07.19.10)
Well, there are people that prefer an arab over their brother, a Jew like them. Well, that's great to know and the Second Temple had been destroyed because of the "unfounded hatred" sinat hinam, that's better in Hebrew. What people learn from the past, what do they learn from our past faults? Nothing, they are the same, centuries after. And I'm not surprised if we are in the same situation. Arabs over Jews? I'm shocked!
2.  Fasting in the summer is not easy :)
Salma ,   Palestine   (07.19.10)
Is your fast means stop eating and drinking together, such as the Muslim fasting?! Of course, you will not be able to fast for bad acts against anyone who is not Jewish ,right?!
3. "Unfounded hatred"
Sagi   (07.19.10)
I am very sorry but in the case of the Haredim this phrase cannot be used. Unfounded means baseless, without reason. The Haredim day in and day out provide us with ample reason for not liking them, they only have themselves to blame. In their case the hatred and dislike that they generate is indeed "founded". and not baseless.
4. Very sad
Leah ,   Israel   (07.19.10)
It seems to me all the secular public should be fasting for their hatred towards religious Jews and as for Salma she should go back home to the Jordanian State of Palestine where she would be liked a lot better.
5. Mourning
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (07.19.10)
This is a personal opinion, but today's Jews should celebrate their modern accomplishments much more than to mourn disasters of the past. You should remember those, so as not to forget what caused them and learn from it, but, like the family in that Auschwitz clip, Jews should dance and thank God for surviving and flourishing, despite every horror thrown at them. My late husband left me a great piece of advice. He said it was normal that I cry over his death, but for me not to spend too much time on crying, but to remember him with love and laughter. The last lines say, "If you remember me only with tears, I'd prefer that you don't remember me, at all." After almost 9 years, I still miss him, but the memories of his quirks and sense of humor make me smile a lot more often than they make me cry.
6. T #2
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (07.19.10)
It's not enough for a book, but it wouldn't surprise me to see a bumper sticker one of thesed days designed by some of my friends: "Fasting made easy for any occasion: Eat dinner at Hartley's house!"
7. #3 never a bases for hatred
David G   (07.19.10)
I am sorry you feel that way Sagi, but in my own life I have never seen a benefit to hate anyone. You might disagree, even think of them as your enemy, but hate does nothing but consume and destroy oneself, you do not hurt anyone else though it. I hope you find it in yourself to get rid of the hate you have for others.
8. Tzom Kal!
Moshino ,   Tel Aviv   (07.19.10)
Am Israel - Kdoshim anakhnu!
9. #2 Yes, it means no eating or drinking altogether.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (07.19.10)
Though I don't quite understand your second question. The current fast is that of Tisha Be'Av, which is about mourning the destruction of the Second Temple, it is not Yom Kippur. Yom Kippur is the fast that is about asking for forgiveness from the Almighty, and even then, it only applies for sins between Man and the Almighty, nothing else. For sins between Man and Man (regardless of his Jewishness or lack thereof), there is no forgiveness from the Almighty - it is our place to correct the harm, and the man or woman we harm has to forgive.
10. #3 You bring an eloquent example of Sinat Hinam.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (07.19.10)
Baseless hatred is *always* seen as having a basis by those who hold it. Only madmen truly hate without reason to justify the hatred for themselves. That you've marked an entire subset of the populace as people you hate is troublesome enough. That you see no problem with it, though, and advertise it freely... look in the mirror. Disagreeing with someone or his choices in life is one thing - hating everyone of a certain creed or set of beliefs quite another. And there are names for such types of hatreds. And all of them are part of Sinat Hinam.
11. And for all those fasting - an easy fast, Tzom Kal.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (07.19.10)
JESUSALEN ,   JESUSALEN   (07.19.10)
give thanks unto the lord call upon his name make known his deeds among the people,sing unto him sing tehilim unto him talk ye of all his wondrous works,glory ye in his holy name let the heart of them rejoice that seek the lord,seek the lord and his strength seek his face continually,remember his marvellous works that he hath done his wonders and the judgments of his mouth,o ye seed of israel his servant ye children of yaakov his chosen ones,he is the lord his judgments are in all the earth,be ye mindful always of hs covenant the word which he commanded to a thousand generations,even of the covenant which he made with avraham and of his oath unto isaac and hath confirmed the same to yaakov for a torah and to israel for an everlasting covenant,saying unto thee will I give the land of canaan the lot of your inheritance,when ye were but few even a few and strangers in it,and when they went from nation to nation and from one kingdom to another people,he suffered no man to do them wrong yea he reproved kings for their sakes,saying touch not mine anointed and do my prophets no harm,sing unto the lord all the earth shew forth from day to day his salvation,declare his glory among the heathen his marvellous works among all nations,for great is the lord and greatly to be praised he also is to be feared above all gods,for all gods of the people are idols but the lord made the heavens,glory and honour are in his presence strenngth and gladness are in his place,give unto the lord ye kindreds of the people give unto the lord glory and strength,give unto the lord the glory due unto his name bring an offering and come before him worship the lord is the beauty of holiness,fear before him all the earth the world also shall be stable that it be not moved,let the heavens be glad and let the earth rejoice and let men say among the nations the lord reigneth,let the sea roar and the fulness thereof let the fields rejoice and all that is therein,then shall the trees of the wood sng out at the presence of the lord because he cometh to judge the earth,o give thanks unto the lord for he is good for his mercy endureth for ever,and say ye save us o lord of our salvation and gather us together and deliver us from the heathen that we may give thanks to thy holy name and glory in thy praise,blessed be the lord of israel for ever and ever and all the people said amen and praise the lord 1 chronicles 16.
13. To Salma--Know your enemy
Max   (07.19.10)
You're a little confused--Yom kippur is the fast for atoning for sins. Tisha baav is a mourning fast.
14. just got back from the Gym and resturant
Avi ,   Island   (07.19.10)
How strange the gym and the resturnat were packed, still managed to get my usual table, Am i bothered about some temple being knocked down? cant say i give a monkeys behind.
15. To #14
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (07.19.10)
Maybe if the US instituted mandatory fasting for the San Francisco earthquake in 1906, Sherman's burning of Atlanta, O'Leary's cow burning down Chicago, the Alamo, Katrina, etc. it would trim down some of the butts around here. No pun intended, but fat chance of that happening.
16. to Roman
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.19.10)
Hating everyone of a segment of the population is baseless and "sinat chinam" . You can hate a person for his acts , not all of his alikes . There are certainly very fine people in every class of our society , be they , seculars , religious , charidim and even Arabs . Sad to say , as in every society , it are not those people we hear about . It are the bad ones that we see and hear . It are those hating everyone opposed to their lifestyle . And sad to say , hate brings hate . I'm not part of the 22% , i'm only "fasting" from meal to meal , 365 [ or 366 ] days a year
17. Tzom Kal! U2 Roman!
Yochanan ,   Holland   (07.20.10)
18. Salma
Evan Sharp ,   United States   (07.20.10)
Salma - when you fast for your peoples' lies, hatred of Jews and terror done in the name of Allah, we'll fast as well.
19. Avi #14
Evan Sharp ,   United States   (07.20.10)
And you are why it takes so long for it to be rebuilt. Enjoy the gym and your dinner. There is a G-d and He take an accounting of everyone and everything.
20. Is Nachalat Binyamin art/craft Fair open today?
En Zee ,   Touring israel   (07.20.10)
Does anybody know if the Artist fair that is usually held on Tuesdays and Fridays in Nachalat Binyamin is open today. The web site doesn't say. Thank you.
21. to #2 salma since when your secular head
ghostq   (07.20.10)
interested in fasting, sound like you don't know what secular means. and in that date the temple was burned, the same one whos ruined underneeth the golden dome, and will be rebuit.
22. Quit whinning about being punshed fot choosing death.
JOSH   (07.20.10)
If you dont like the past curses, maybe we should shed the lies and do Torah as it was written and shut down these cultic leader practices that oppress us. Cults only work if people follow. If a child sat there complaining over and over again about a punishment they receievd, what parent would reward that deviant child escpecially in the porcess of this childs whinning the child insulted the parent and continued to add rebellion in their comlaints.
23. #19 Evan
Avi ,   Israel   (07.20.10)
if you choose to belive some medieval religious mumbo jumbo thats your right but in the manner we are also free to choose and to the right not to belive . I am not religious and do not claim to live by its rules end of. Freedom from religious coercion.
24. to #22 Jews r a race not just believe you door
ghostq   (07.20.10)
handle, the children of abraham, they developed from 12 tribes, literally, as for rebeliation that's normal have you ever seen a child that is walking zombi and obay all the time, children have their own whishes their own needs, and if they r out of line they r sent to time out, but that is temporary because father and child bond is pricless like in the best family in the world. :)
25. And you, Evan Sharp, is ANOTHER reason why there is no templ
John ,   Europe   (07.20.10)
Speaking from UNITED STATES and not taking your bags to move to Israel? Living in Israel - one of 613 mitzvot? Or you overslept when this mitzvah was given? So before you pass judgment to your fellow brother, look deep in yourself - there is MUCH to clean.
26. The title of article is "politicly correct"! :)
John ,   Europe   (07.20.10)
Then in text, you have "22% of Israelis will fast; another 52 will honor the day by not going out with friends" and there is about 26% of people who will not do anything. And the title is - 74% follow Tisha B'Av tradition... But... if fasting is Tisha B'Av tradition, and you have 52% who will only "honor" the day, but will not fast - then they fall in the group of "not doing". Hence, you have 52+26 = 78% of people who will NOT fast - and not keep up the TbA tradition? Then the title... :)
27. 'unfounded hatred.' Like that against converst
Josh   (07.20.10)
Nothing serves cults more than to get the people trapped in their mental cages to insitgate outsiders and fear invisible monsters outside the gates. This "Them against us" holiday when coupled with cult manipulations of guilt is more an "ourselves for our own oppression and mockery" Stop falling for cult additions to Torah. It wont be your fault and you wont be guilty if you (we) set it right. Cheer G-d's chastisement of choose death. Choose life.
28. More like 74% want a day off work
Talula ,   Israel   (07.20.10)
I'm sorry that there's a lot of sad people fasting and crying about the destruction of the first and second temples - but I'm not one of them. So, why couldn't I watch the comedy channel last night after a hard day at work? It's totally out of order that those who do not starve and cry all day about the leveling of these temples are not allowed to watch a bit of comedy. Those people who follow Tisha B'Av wouldn't be watching TV anyway, so what does it matter to them if the rest of us do? Tisha B'Av is a minor day in the Jewish calendar – it’s another reason for people to get dramatic and beat their chests and starve themselves. Sadly. many hundreds of temples have been destroyed in Jewish history – if we commemorate each one, we’d only work 7 weeks a year. It’s UNACCEPTABLE that there was no comedy channel last night – totally and completely unacceptable. I don’t appreciate not having the choice.
29. #28 You have a choice
Stan ,   USA   (07.20.10)
You can always leave the Jewish country for a goyish one that doesn't give a hoot about Tisha B'Av (actually a very major holiday, more so than all the fasts hence 25 hours of fasting instead of a half day). The USA will welcome you with open arms and you will be free to assimilate here since you no longer care about your heretige.
30. #24 Analogies aside human wars is not a child-timeout
Josh   (07.20.10)
The curses for provoking G-d are spelled out in Devarim. They are hardly something we as grown men and women can discount to the equivalea two year old complaining to papa. My appologies if anyone thinks I am trivializing the massacres of our nation as a petty punishment by G-d. Time to grow up. Such rebellion is described in curses that parallel what happened in the Shaoh. Ceratiainly a time-out sounds much more preferable but Torah doesn't have kid's gloves for siinners. To mock G-d and Torah is equal to national suicide. Prophets warned to stop monkeying with Torah laws or we would loose the Temple. Well, we lost the Temple. I am warning fi we dont quit following false additions, Torah curses are forthcomming. Choose life or choose death. Which Torah future do you want?
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