IDF: We don't have to promise not to hurt civilians
Hanan Greenberg
Published: 21.07.10, 23:58
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31. IDF !!!
Alex ,   USA   (07.22.10)
It is treason, in the highest degree . They want to prohibit the army to do their job ? Who are this idiots? The boys in the battlefield should ignore disturbing notion like this. This can cost their life.
32. #21 No need to exaggerate
Cynthia ,   USA   (07.22.10)
Launching 7500 kassam rockets and bombs at Sderot was collective punishment against Israeli civilians. The IDF identified 1166 Palestinian fatalities during the War in Gaza. This number included 295 civilians (minors and adults). Hamas is obviously not concerned about endangering the Palestinian civilian population since they keep firing kassam rockets at Israel.
33. Notification Procedure is Rubbish
Sam ,   Nigeria   (07.22.10)
How many times has Hamas notified civilian population of Israel when firing Kassam. Why not address the issue that civilians are used as shield by Hamas that claim their lives. Besides how many times did Goldstone warn Hamas of firing rockets to Israeli civilians and what is the penalty for doing that. Goldstone is nothing but arrant hypocrite, all of them rejoices anytime these rockets hit Israeli community. Goldstone rush to hell with your cohorts.
34. Losing the propaganda war.
Osaka.   (07.22.10)
Seems you have lost the propaganda war.
35. @ 24
AJ - Raalte   (07.22.10)
Stop bulsh*tting! The IDF acknowledged 1166 Gazan combat deaths. 672 of those were PROVEN (illegal) combattants. That's a ratio of less than 1:1. In aproximitely the SAME 3 weeks, the Sri-Lankan army massacred some 20,000 civilians in order to eliminate the last 1,000 Tamil Tigers. A ratio of 20:1. Nobody urged any "Goldstone-reports" on that bloodbath, nor does anyone care about the hundreds of Kurdish civillians who were lately murdered by the Turks and the Syrians. And noone counted the "Palestinian" deaths in that "refugeecamp" in Libanon, just called them all terrorists. Of course, Hamas exagerates the number of their fallen, counting every possible death from illness and traffic accidents, they would normally suffer in any 3-week period, and whining incessantly about 400 dead "children", a great percentage of whom were armed minors who died in combat, and the rest their human shields, willingly or not. Or did you think that bullets coming from guns wielded by 15-17 year-olds, don't kill and injure in the exact same way as those coming from guns shot by adults?
36. To: No. 21
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (07.22.10)
How many children died in the carpet bombing of Germany? How many children died in the firestorms that raged following the bombing of Tokyo? I mean, really. All those wooden homes. Shall we talk about Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Of course there's the whole thing with Kosovo and NATO's less-than-smart "smart boms." Shall we chat a bit about Iraq? Afghanistan? How about Waziristan? So take your false piety and shelve it until you have answered my questions, okay? By the way, your number is off. Do a little research.
37. Most out of control army award goes to..
Chris.B ,   Australia   (07.22.10)
The IDF is absolutely corrupt and out of control. Of course out of the 150 investigations 4 token incidents were followed up. Perpetrators investigating their own crimes what a farce. No journalist are allowed into the Palestinian territories when the IDF is on its killing spree I wonder why? And then I hear irreprehensible comments form Sarah. B 1,300 Palestinians were killed 80% were enemy combatants. Why not say what you mean Sarah. To the IDF all Palestinians are enemy combatants, terrorist, have no human value exedra exedra. No wonder the IDF suicide rates are up (still smoking hashish to forget) some soldiers have a conscience and know what the evil they do! Defending your country is one thing but using a convenient ‘cough’ ‘cough’ international incident 9/11 to class all Palestinians as terrorist and kill at will is inexcusable especially unarmed civilians its cold blooded racist murder. This rule applies to all military powers. Live by the sword…………
38. #21 Civilian Combatants refer.
These are civilian combatants armed to kill IDF soldiers. it only takes a naive soldier to spare such at the risk of his life.
39. :: Sarah BS - inflated figures
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (07.22.10)
It is truly amazing that Sarah BS can get so many facts wrong. The IDF released figures ranging from: Total killed: 1,134 - 1,166 Combatants killed: 673 - 709 This equates to 60% enemy combatants not the inflated figure of 80% that Sarah BS is trying to trot out. Of course Sarah BS will not be able to cite any credible reference to this figure of 80% that she plucked out of the air; in fact she will not have the nerve to butt my figures. That said the IDF figures are totally skewed and lack any credibility. All other independent sources cite a much higher civilian death toll, B’Tselem for instance cites that 55% of those killed were civilians. Either way whichever figures you take the IDF managed to kill a huge amount of civilians even after the IDF said ‘it took "extensive measures" to avoid striking non-combatants’.
40. To: No. 9
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (07.22.10)
Dwight Eisenhower played a significant role in the carpet bombing of Germany, which resulted in the deaths of several million civilians. Was that lazy, reckless or immature? Clearly the American people did not think so. They elected him president. I recommend that you retire from making arguments that are too easy to refute.
41. To: No. 8
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (07.22.10)
The Allied forces could have bombed the railway tracks upon which Jews were transported to their deaths. They didn't. Saying that the Allies put a stop to the Holocaust is a lot like saying that the Union put an end to slavery. Both were accidental byproducts of war; not the reasons that the wars were fought. And don't you forget it!
42. Officers of the "Most Moral Army" are
Doug ,   Rochester, USA   (07.22.10)
Demanding the right to be able to continue being able to commit war crimes with impunity?
43. matty
gadi ,   idf   (07.22.10)
the number of combatants are much higher in fact. as an officer in the idf, i was in the first and second gaza operations, and we had to deal with "civilians" shooting at us (without military closing of course), and when we liquidated them, right away you see children (recruted by hamas) running to the body stripping it from all guns and running away. right after that you see an ambulance arriving declaring the terrorist as "civilian" dead. why? because he had no weapons on him. only the ones that the idf could prove (with weapons on them) were counted, the rest was just propaganda. im sorry matty, but until you actually ARE in gaza seeing whats going on, your comments here have no value whatsoever. the media is always on the side of the weaker (looking) and that's why you like these people so much. matty, your just another arm chair critic from far away... get a job mate :-)
44. our shame
Arn ,   Yehud   (07.22.10)
Israel is blessed with a brilliant, independent, democratic and energetic people. It's just that it's government - and those that assume to speak in its name - many of its judges and academicians included - are spineless, and mindless gobs of plasticine totally detached from the real world, and partial to all those who hate us to bend and twist in their fingers.
45. :: Sarah BS - too easy to refute?
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (07.22.10)
A bit like your so-called ‘facts’’ eh? “80%” you said yet the official IDF figures are much lower. Also if I remember correctly Eisenhower did not make any claims about ‘purity of arms’ or ‘the most moral army in the world’ nor did he make such statements as: “The Israel Defense Force is firmly committed to respecting its obligations under international law, including under the Law of Armed Conflict”.
46. The begining of the end...
Hertzel ,   Tveria   (07.22.10)
Cowerdly, defetism, self hatred, apeasment...and I dont know what the hell else to accuse these people that approved this piece of crap ...!
47. Steve, # 5
Golani ,   Vineland, USA   (07.22.10)
Steve, are you that naive? Shouldn't Hamas and Hizballah have honest embedded journalists hang out with them? Remember, they are the cause of all of the violence. Israel did not ask to have soldiers kidnapped, Israel did not ask to have missles launched against them, Israel does not ask to have busses and cafes bombed. And if your next argument is that Israel occupies Arab lands, then you have no sense of history.
48. :: Gadi - #43
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (07.22.10)
Ah Gadi good to hear from you as I was hoping that you can explain why the IDF use human shields. Is not the IDF practice of using civilians as human shields illegal under international law? Isn’t against the IDF code of conduct to force a civilian to do a soldiers job? I mean if you place civilians in harms way they can get killed can’t they: Eg: “In August 2002, a 19-year-old Palestinian student, Nidal Daraghmeh, was killed in such an incident in the West Bank town of Tubas. At the time, troops called Daraghmeh out of his house and forced him to knock at the door of a neighboring building where a senior Hamas fugitive was hiding. Gunfire erupted and Daraghmeh was killed.” Source: Ynet/AP - 03.04.07 Now correct me if I am wrong but doesn’t the Ethics of the IDF state: “Human Dignity - The IDF and its soldiers are obligated to protect human dignity. Every human being is of value regardless of his or her origin, religion, nationality, gender, status or position”. “Purity of Arms - IDF soldiers will not use their weapons and force to harm human beings who are not combatants or prisoners of war, and will do all in their power to avoid causing harm to their lives, bodies, dignity and property”. Isn’t using civilians as human shields over 1,200 times between 2000 and 2005 as confirmed by the IDF making a mockery of these IDF ethics? I hope you can answer these questions for me as you claim to be in the IDF.
49. IDF: We don't have to promise not to hurt civilians
George Weiss ,   Teaneck, USA   (07.22.10)
The proposed IDF rules are truly laughable. It guarantees that the Arabs will seek even further concessions until it will be suicide to fight in the IDF. I myself would refuse to serve under these rules.
50. IDF.
Alex ,   USA   (07.22.10)
Boys and girls of the IDF!!! Just continue to do your jobs. Ignore the lunatics, and their comments. You are the ones risking your lives in the field, Your critics are the ones that never would go close to a battlefield.
51. absutely right on!
OZ   (07.22.10)
let's examine whatthe arabs/u.n call civilains-- hamas/hizbulah terrorists who shed their military uniforms as the idf approaches to blend and hide(like the cowerds they are0 among the true civilain popultion... it's a true and tried method... worked for them in 1982 ,in iraq in '91.. 2006. 2008 and on .
52. 7500 Quassam's ,...
split ,   USA   (07.22.10)
Rain of rockets, very Impresive ! How many people died as a result of it would you tell us, please ? No one believe IDF data BS any more why should I ?
53. Sara @ 36 ,...
split ,   USA   (07.22.10)
We're talking about IDF response to UN not carpet bombing of Germany, so talk to the point instead of pointing the finger or get out of the kitchen ,...
54. ... declaring the terrorist as "civilian",...
split ,   USA   (07.22.10)
A terrorist ? In Warsow ghetto he would be a freedoom fighter and a hero,...
55. Read the Lieber Code
Bill Levinson ,   Wilkes-Barre, US   (07.22.10)
Someone remind the IDF that the purpose of an army is to kill people and break things, not serve as social workers. Civilian buildings like places of worship, schools, and hospitals are indeed immune from military attack under international law but, the instant they are militarized they lose that immunity and can be targeted. Palestinians need to understand that the instant terrorists set up a rocket emplacement next to a school, they had better get their children out of that school because Israel can LEGALLY blow it to bits and has every right to do so. See the Lieber Code (commissioned by Abraham Lincoln) on the use and misuse of yellow flags to designate non-combatant positions such as field hospitals.
56. Exactly why should they show restraint?
Martin Sawyer ,   Montreal, Canada   (07.23.10)
That would just be detrimental to ethnic cleansing.
57. To: No. 53
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (07.23.10)
Umm, your mixed metaphors are completely confusing. Let me save you some time. I'll ask you this. The United Nations is up and running now. Plenty of opportunity to address the massacres of civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq. It was up and running during the Balkan War, too. The silence has been deafening, even though thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians have perished in those conflicts. Your point, little one? Can you be a little more specific, please? The issue of war and armed conflict begs international convention. Are you prepared to suggest that a different set of rules applies to Israel? Oh, just try it. I'll rip you a new one. That's a promise.
58. 48, matty
gadi ,   idf   (07.23.10)
you didn't even react to my comment. this just shows how ignorant you are. i don't care about facts on the ground. you run away straight to some "facts" that you claim to be the perfectly true, even though you have never been to israel nor to any country around it or to gaza, wb, etc. i do not believe there have been so many incidents, although i do know of a few human shield incidents in gaza, even in our troop. you have to understand the conditions and atmosphere there. people throwing stones at your humvee, molotov cocktails, sometimes bullets bang in, once it even hit one of my soldiers in the arm, even though we were inside (long story). anyway, when we go out of the humvee and catch 2 or 3 of the stone throwers, we put them in front of the humvee to make their "friends" or "brothers" stop firing at us, or throwing a molotov cocktail at us, etc. so yes, herby i do confirm that we did that once or twice, but it was effective. we actually had 30min quiet, nobody was shooting, nobody was throwing anything at us, etc. as an experienced combat officer, if you ask me? id rather sacrifice one of them, then one of mine. do you get this? would you sacrifice one of your friend, rather then one of your enemy? you probably can't answer this question, cause you've never been to a place where someone wants to kill you, and hates you to death. here, my friend, it's no like in "fairport"... it the real deal, it's life or death. you do what you gotta do to survive. and when i compare my army to other armies in the world? wow man, we're actually angels! matty, you're so stuck up with "law" that you would probably die the first minute in a battle field. you have no clue what it's about. im talking about terrorists crossing the street with a 3 y old kid in their arms, so that if we shoot at him, we will kill the kid too and it will serve as "bad propaganda" against israel. these people have no respect to life whatsoever. matty, i really wish i could show you around in gaza for 1 or 2 days. im actually feeling really bad for you, so much hatred, every opportunity u use to bash and to point out how wrong and what "faults" we've commited. while on other articles, where "palis" murder an israeli, you never show up to condemn their act... this actually points out to pure anti-semitism. but hey, suit yourself... you, don't change anything :-) i hope to see some more reasonable comments from you in the fure here matty... do you think thats possible? i mean, come on, do u read the news about afghanistan and iraq? how many civilians die there? do you personally care about it? not really right? it's just israel somehow, right? where do you feel the hate coming from, chest? stomace?... cheers dude.
59. Oh, just try it. I'll rip you a new one ,...
split ,   USA   (07.23.10)
Get a life ,...
60. split, you are no match for sarah
gadi ,   idf   (07.23.10)
when she's around, you better not spin the truth as usual. she does have a life. do you have a job? tststs
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