Jewish Scene
Gender identity sought between pages of Gemara
Danny Adino Ababa
Published: 04.08.10, 21:31
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1. Halacha is Halacha
Gadi ,   USA   (08.05.10)
This issue is a psychological and emotional issue that led to committing the sin of bodily mutilation. This person is still halachically a man. Nothing has changed. He will deal with it after 120.
2. He is being accepted...
Yosef ,   USA   (08.05.10)
and not ostracized because Rabbis think that with love you can stop this people from doing a sex change operation or from dressing in woman cloths. Keeping the commandment of loving every Yid regardless of their sin. But the truth is that the acceptance is half way. Do you think G is getting married soon in the orthodox shul he is attending? Not like a woman that is for sure. Neither is he being invited for Shabos meals with families that do know from his troubles and have children. I know a person just like that and believe me I am having a hard time dealing with this. Because I respect this individual and love him, the issue is that the person I know now is not really who I befriended. The issue is that he is rebelling against Hashem because he just wants to follow his Yetzer HaRa. What will be of us if everybody starts feeling tormented because cant bear living a normal life becasue they feel they will be happy only by breaking either human or Hashem's laws. At the end in the long run Happiness for them seems to be always several steps away.. Always ethereal, non graspable,
3. Moreover
Yosef ,   USA   (08.05.10)
Now you have a man without Milah (because of self mutilation) seating with the women. Praying with them which is also forbidden. Rejecting Torah Aliyas and rejecting Tallit and Tefillin and rejecting the guf that Hashem gave them and rejecting at the end their own Jewishness because the punishment for homosexual relations is Kares. Even if they practice celibacy is a terrible thing. Even if they are doing this after being old and all their children married and gone of the home.
4. As a great rabbi told me once...
Melanie B ,   Jerusalem   (08.05.10)
it's a bit like going to the doctor. The doctor will tell you things you have to do and things you mustn't do in order to be healthy (do sports, quit smoking), but since that list is really long, is he going to hate you if you do a lot of those things, but simply feel like you HAVE to go to McDonald's once a month? Obviously not. A religious person should try and follow all of G-d's laws, but G-d won't hate you for being human and thus not being able to actually do so. One should try one's best and trust in HaShem that once the day of judgment comes, He will know us better than some crazymen obsessively clinging to Halacha while ignoring the pain and the sadness people like this very brave "G." feel.
5. Praise G-d
Ruth Rasnic ,   Herzliya, Israel   (08.05.10)
Praise G-d that we live in an era where such changes are possible and can be performed by expert medical care. Good luck to the former man and welcome to our turf, sister.
6. I wish her the best of luck in her life
Talula ,   Israel   (08.05.10)
I hope she finds happiness and is now peaceful and content with herself.
7. #1 1000% correct....
safta of 12 ,   Israel   (08.05.10)
Even those who convert from Jewish to another religion remain a Jew.....If you are born a man you are a man no matter how long your skirt is or where you sit in shul....This fellow needs help and lots of it....
8. Transgender
NYC Girl   (08.05.10)
Unlike what some here are claiming, people who are born the wrong sex don't undergo gender reassignment surgery in order to stick their finger in God's eye. Being born the wrong sex is a complicated physical and psychological issue which can be fraught with fear, anxiety and confusion and has very little to do with religion...that is until people who think they're holier than thou decide to insinuate themselves into what is a very complicated personal decision. But these people have already spent enough years suffering and questioning their own identity and most of them feel as if they've finally been liberated once they come to the decision to take the ultimate step of changing their gender, and the last thing they need is the judgmental opinions of people who are going to accuse them of committing some irredeemable sin.
9. Transgender/Judaism
kevin john lee ,   Glasgow/uk   (08.05.10)
G-d said to Adam and Eve,you chose the earth over me! now live with it, dont ask me for help for it lays within your souls,the key to everlasting life,(how you live with other beings,how you treat creatures/insects and the earth),is within,as you wouldnt accept my command so you will deny your soul. So to G! I say you are as important to G-d no more- no less,than any other person. Shalom and good luck.
10. As i already said it : nobody to whom to talk
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.05.10)
This for religious women regarding their husband's behaviour , or for this case . Fine she toke the right decision , now she's happy , and let # 1 and 7 bark their hate
11. baaaaa this phenomena isn't well accepted
ghostq   (08.05.10)
among the non religious people y do you think religious people will accept it, the point I am making is that what ever bla bla religious excuss you will find you need to refer the non religious part as well, from what I understood they r not part of the gay community, because most of them r not gay, they r mentaly in the wrong sex, brain structure is different, and they atrakted to the opposite sex. so they need to start with seculars and than find the religious reason.
12. #4, #5, #6, #8, #9, #10
Jake ,   USA   (08.05.10)
No one is belittling this mans suffering, I have no doubt that he is tormented by his problem. But if you call yourself an Orthodox Jew, a sex-change flies in the face of everything you supposedly stand for. Orthodox belief is that a person comes into this world with specific hardships and inclinations that are there to make the person stronger, to rectify his/her soul (a "tikun" so to speak). If you are a secular Jew, I have no comment, but an Orthodox man cannot get a sex-change and still call himself Orthodox.
13. bodily mutilation?
anton   (08.05.10)
you mean just like circumcision is a mutilation? This person has changed her gender- do you think this was an easy choice with religious leaders and brothers like you? If this was a psychological whim she would never have seen this through. When religious leaders stop to interfere with people's lives then the world will be a better place- until then, they condemn, they threaten, they ban, they subdue..... women, young children, young men...instead of praying for them, they thank God for not being like women- how revolting. This is open criticism of Gods work- .
14. Jake @ # 12
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.05.10)
"he" was born apparently with signs of both genders . I could agree with you if he was a 100 % man , but this was not the case , He was more a she , and thus had to adapt her body . It was not a sex change , ity was adapting exterior gender signs to her "interior" .
15. all this is very confusing !
Benjamin ,   singapore   (08.05.10)
16. Thanks Charles #14, I didn't know that...
Jake ,   USA   (08.05.10)
I'd be interested to learn the Talmudic stance on these cases. Who decided that this person would be considered a man? Did this person have more male features than female, or vice versa? This case is more complicated than the story portrays.
17. #12 News flash
Talula ,   Israel   (08.05.10)
Orthodox Jews choose to live an orthodox lifestyle - what they cannot choose or have any control over is the body that God put them in - sometimes he just gets it wrong and it leaves certain people feeling uncomfortable in their own body. You have no business judging them or condemning them - you don't know how it feels for them and the mental confusion they suffer. So, be a good Jew and don't judge - just be happy they are happy. You should be careful when you step down from your high moral stand, you might just fall flat on your face.
18. plugat barakim
sweeter than honey ,   far away   (08.05.10)
i am sure the commander, one ehud, can give this soul some tips on high heels and make-up. and other stratagems, like the trojan horse. lol.
19. #17, God never gets it wrong.
Jake ,   USA   (08.06.10)
We all have our own challenges to overcome. Some people have an inclination to kill, some have an inclination to steal, others have an inclination to be homosexual. I have my challenges, and you have yours. With God's help we overcome them. That is my Torah-based outlook, and I am entitled to my own views.
20. 'As a man thinks in his heart, so he is. He NOT G-d decided
he was a woman.HIS ,   choice,not Hashems   (08.06.10)
21. #17 Oh puhleez! Sometimes God gets it wrong??Do you know how
stupid you sound?? ,   Rueben, Migdal   (08.06.10)
22. what?
mo ,   USA   (08.06.10)
Yaweh (GOD) doesn't make mistakes. HE is GOD NOT HUMAN. he is the almighty. Humans are sinners by nature and homosexuality in a SIN and condemned by GOD. GOD never asked us to ok their sins but he did ask us to be good to the person. So dont forget what happen in sodom and Gemara. they were destroyed for their open HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVITIES.
23. About this issue
Yosef ,   USA   (08.06.10)
I have spoken about this issue with Modern Orthodox Rabbi, with a Kabbalist Rabbi, with a Conservative Cantor, with a Psychiatrist, a Psicologyst and a Lesbian friend of mine, seen programs about gender reassignment surgery on TV talk shows. They gave me plethora of info. What saddens me is that is very hard for any community to accept this. Hard for the frum community and hard for the goyish community as well. Both my Lesbian friend and the Psychiatrist told me my friend (Not G) will never be happy as he or she however you wanna call him or her, because acceptance is only partial as I said before. The Psychiatrist told me this cases are very likely to end up in suicide. A person like this I was told needs to choose a different community and start all over again with new friends. Is a little like a convert. I wish him the best of lucks. I still love him but I do love Hashem too. If Halacha says for me that he will always be a man then that is my skeleton and my ghost to fight. If you can accept someone to be transgender, homosexual and what else you want why cant people accept the datti person for what he is with his belief. Why is easier for some people to accept a Drug addict, an alcoholic, and people with other diseases (Only referring to addictions here) or conditions (like trans genders and homosexuals) but cant accept some one else with a different set of belief that at the end is not so distant neither so different? A Jew is a Jew is a Jew PERIOD Regasrdless if he turn in to a she or if she turned in to a he. Regardless if you tight your right shoe first or you wear a velvet Kippah. Regardless of they believing in H! and being frum or being reform. We should continue loving each other. I wish my Lesbian friend is wrong about trans genders and so my Psychiatrist friend. I wish my Trans gender friend will follow H!]s plan and if not then not. I will still greet him, I just could not take my children to be around him and learn Torah. I dont think he will want that either. Who knows? Only Hashem knows.
24. gender choice
thinkagain ,   jerusalem   (08.06.10)
If i understood well Adam was created with 2 genders,and G-d decided to do a separation.Based on this what does the Halacha say?Should a person with 2 genders decide which gender is best for him,and do the necessary?
25. Yes Gadi (#1), Halakhah is Halakhah
micha ,   Passaic, NJ, USA   (08.06.10)
The Tzitz Eliezer (R' Eliezer Waldenberg) writes that a person's gender with respect to halakhah /is/ changed by the surgery. A woman whose husband underwent such surgery does not need a get (writ of divorce). He also writes that the appropriate blessing for G. to say in the morning list is "shehafachni kirtzono". Yes, the surgery itself is prohibited. Although the responsum notes that if there is a dangerous risk of suicide, risk to life takes precedence over the prohibition. (As it does over nearly all prohibitions.) G's autobiography doesn't say anything that would indicate this was true in her case; just speaking theoretically. The observant community has had to adapt to a world where we are a minority among Jews. We learned to be accepting of many people, even while considering their actions sinful. There is no /halachic/ reason to be less accepting of G for a sin that lies in her past, than of someone who continues to eat shellfish. Don't dress up our gut-instinctive "eww" in garments of holiness. It creates an undserved self-image of piety, -micha
26. To some of you : we live in the 21st century
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.06.10)
And "god makes no mistakes" god has created" and so on , could be heard in the dark middle ages . Not today ! Now i hope that this Woman will be completely accepted in her new community , and may she be happy with a long life
27. To#26 the 100% jewish atheist . G-d has created
thinkagain ,   jerusalem   (08.06.10)
Why are you provoking people who believe in G-d?
28. Think again . Why do they provoke me ?
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.06.10)
29. 27 , as a 100 % Jew , i'll answer with a question
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.06.10)
Why did they provoke me , a 100 % Atheist ?
30. To #26 21th century
thinkagain ,   jerusalem   (08.06.10)
Albert Einstein tough he lived in the 21th century, believed in G-d as the Creator of the world.
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