Jewish Scene
Rabbis fail to report to police
Aviad Magnezi
Published: 10.08.10, 13:13
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1. rabbi shapira's book = torah
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (08.10.10)
the man's opinion on the torah is equated with torah? that about says it all.
2. israel is a banana republic
david ,   new york   (08.10.10)
anytime someone says something that the (leftwing) people in power do not like, then they are punished for the crime of "incitement". what a banana republic! incitement means something like this: "lets go burn down that house there", or "lets go lynch that guy". it does not mean simply saying something that makes someone uncomfortable. if you don't like what's in the book, then PLEASE do not buy it. but you have no right to ban ideas just because you don't like them.
3. Rabbis asserting their possibly erroneous understanding of
David Turner ,   Richmond   (08.10.10)
Torah justifies ignoring civil authority? Civil disobedience is still unlawful.Rabbinic defiance of Israeli law? Since when is a citizen allowed to refuse an order from law enforcement based on personal understanding of the Torah? I acknowledge that I am not an authority on the relationship between rabbi and God, but I suspect studying Torah does not make the student, whatever his background and experience, the final authority. Halacha is reinterpreted for every generation because each generation faces a new set of social circumstances. Similarly, authorities on Halacha within each generation may come to different interpretations based on their own experience and understanding. For these rabbis to defy a lawful order to appear based on their assertion that, "The investigation is contrary to the laws of the Torah – therefore we will not take part in it," is not merely chutzpah, but defiance of the legal authority of the state. The state has the final authority in dealing with those who choose to ignore the law of the land. If a prime minister can be forced to stand before the bar of justice then certainly the same consequence is applicable in this case?
4. Chutzpah
Norman Gellman ,   Rehovot   (08.10.10)
These rabbis have chutzpah it’s not whether the book is salacious in this case but their refusal to be questioned. Perhaps they really is nothing good to say about this book. I do not agree that people should be arrested for their published thoughts, but I feel these rabbis should be punished for failing to comply with a legitimate police request.
5. to #3 and #4
Moishe ,   Golutsk   (08.10.10)
The state where police has authority to question private citizens about their believes and things they write is called Police State.
6. Rabbis keep strong! Another Emanuel case in the making.
(08.10.10)
7. No one is cutting off a piece of meat from a live animal and
Bunnie Meyer ,   Los Angeles, CA USA   (08.10.10)
letting it hobble around. No one these days is breaking all the 7 laws, no one anywhere so this is a moot issue.
8. to #7 - In China it is a delecacy to
Ben   (08.10.10)
put a live goose on the pan and cut of it feet when get blistered.
9. When the stassi knock
Ilan ,   Ariel   (08.10.10)
They can rule by force but they have no moral standing. The prosecutors office isn't a branch of some authoritarian party, they are supposed to be interested in rprotecting freedom of speech and not quelling debate. BTW, when was the last time they pulled in some leftist professor?
10. rabbis 'fail to report'
moron ,   galut   (08.10.10)
so go and arrest them and charge them...but for what?...'supporting' a book?..what means supporting?..so leave them alone..it's a free country for rabbis too..no?...then arrest everyone who wants to expel israel's enemies instead of killing too?
11. Grand Jury
MarcH ,   USA   (08.10.10)
Moishe - You don't seem to understand what is and what is not a police state. In the U.S. it is common and normal for criminal suspects and witnesses to be compelled to apear before a Grand Jury and to furnish documents to assist in a criminal investigation. In case you can't figure it out, that is not an example of a police state.
12. THE TORCHING AND VANDALIZING OF THE PAL'S MOSQUE
BENJAMIN ,   SINGAPORE   (08.10.10)
RECALL THE CRIME OF TORCHING AND VANDALIZING OF THE MOSQUE IN THE VILLAGE OF YASUF ! YOU THINK THE "TORAT HAMELECH ENDORCES SUCH CRIME AND APPROVES OF SUCH ARSON ? CAN ANY RABBI ANSWER THIS QUESTION ? PLEASE DONT GET CARRIED AWAY BY THE GLORIFICATION OF THE TORAH TO THE POINT YOUR OPEN DOOR TO TERROR- AND DONT TELL ME BY PROMOTING TERROR IT RESONATES US JEWS WITH SUPREME JOPY AS YOU IMMERSE YOURSELF INTO THE STUDY OF TORAH AND APPLYING THE ETAACHING WITH THE TORAT HAMELECH ! THE TORAH MAKES FOR HAPPINESS THE TORAH MAKES FOR A CLEAN LIFE THE TORAH MAKE TO UNDERSTAND THE WORDS OF G-D THE TORAH IS A COMFORD THE TORAH CALELS TO CURB YOUR GREED THE TORAH DOESNOT MAKE OR CALL FOR A SACRIFICE OF POPULARITY THE TORAH DOESNT CALL FOR UNDETERRED BY REDICULE THYE TOARH IS THE COMPANIONS OF FELLOW BELIEVERS TO BE FAIR & JUST TO KILL GENTILES FRO TEH SAKE OF SETTELMENT ? i DONT THINK SO ! THESE RABBIS ARE SUFFERING FROM A SYNDROM- FOR THE MISFORTUNE OF HAVING BAD NEIGHBOURS ! SO THE RABBIS APPROVE THE BURNING OF THE MOSQUE IN YASUF ? TORAT HAMELECH IS SICK IDEOLOGY ? IT IS A INCITEMENT TO BERAK PEACE AND DOESNOT SHARE THE NOBILITY OF TEH TORAH ! G-D SUPPORTS TEH FAITHFUL AND GOING G-DS WAY IS ALIGHT ON THE PATHWAY- SUCH LIGHT IS NOT IN TORAT HAMELECH ! I AM SORRY ! I CANNOT APPROVE THE RABBIS ! AS AJEW I ACNNOT OBSERVE COMMANDS LIKE THE TORAT HAMELECH DESPITE AFFLICTION ! TORAH IS NOT THE ISSUE , IT IS TEH RABBIS THAT SHOULD BE OPEN TO INVESTIGATION- IT IS A STRUCTURED EVIL !
13. to: MarcH
Moishe ,   Golutsk   (08.10.10)
If in your country people who express their religious believes in wrings can be called "criminal suspects" as you say, then i feel sorry for you and your country.
14. Legitimate?
Josef ,   Jersey   (08.10.10)
15. #11 Yes and No
nr ,   los angeles, usa   (08.10.10)
Yes, in the states people are called before a grand dury and are obligated to report. But I can't remember the last time someone got called in because of what was written by someone else in a book. Can you? I think Moishe is right - it is a police state to act this way.
16. They belong in jail
Avi ,   Israel   (08.11.10)
seems the religious are above the law.
17. Confused
Shalom Hartman   (08.11.10)
I'm not clear what all the fuss is about: it is obvious that a person should kill someone who is threatening to kill him. The Torah has very clear guidelines regarding preserving life; if the judges (small j) don't like it, they should try the koran.
18. War is War
Fred ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (08.11.10)
Times of War are not times of peace. When the US was at war they dropped atomic bombs on Japan and the alllies carpet bombed German cities . Was everyone killed in those efforts to win the war, guilty. Not for sure, but in war there are different rules and if you want to defeat evil , killing is sometimes necessary.
19. RABBIS : DONT GRANDIOCE DISOBEDIENCE
BENJAMIN ,   SINGAPORE   (08.11.10)
My baba, left me a message in one of his letters, there he wrote : G-s is not neutral with regards to human conduct. In the order of world, as designed by G-d, the way of the righteous will prevail and the way of the wicked will perish. Every person is challenged to choose between right and wrong. You make choices all the time. Often it doesn’t make much difference what you choose. But one choice can change your life; the company you choose. Shun evildoers as you associations become your destiny. Do not walk in the counsel of the wicked, nor seat in the seat of the scornful. Bare in mind the moral standards taught to us by G-ds Law. And no body is above the law. There intricate detail of fact that justify the killing of gentile by law as propounded in the TORAT HAMELECH has a very thin line between , self-defense, the right to protect one life of another life and the property. Academic arguments has the high tendency to take an unexpected turn fro worst especially in the company of fellow students. Jews need not turn JIHADs !Do not follow the multitudes to do evil and justify the same with TORAT HAMELECH. The book is infected with a mob culture psychology, people will stop thinking about the JUST WAY, as choose the path blind followers ! Arrest the Rabbis, NO BODY IS ABOVE THE LAW OF THE SOVERIGN NATION ISRAEL !
20. State law has to be respected
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.11.10)
They werre summoned to report ? yes ! they had to obey . Then they could explain to this judge what they think . But maybe they know that it is incitement ?
21. Learned and Foolish
Joe ,   Israel   (08.11.10)
Much learning does not necessarily lead to wisdom. It sometimes leads to foolishness, as the case in point. Our language differentiayes between a "chacham" and a "pikeach", the latter being more praiseworthy.
22. Another proof that Israel is a KGB Communist State
(08.11.10)
Leaders are from Russia and continue with their Communism in Israel
23. My god is your god, mortals should butt out
silvio   (08.11.10)
Torah not open to investigation ---- Koran not open to investigation ---- Both must be using the same god, as they both override the law of men, of govt. --- How do you like that, they must be twins
24. What else is new -justice hears the truth.
Josh   (08.11.10)
Torah commands that judgement is made between parties, yet they will not allow nor assist in sorting out the truth because cultic people create their own truths that escape wisdom and true righteousness. Stealth injustice is not Torah. Cultic parties need to create monsters outside the gates to keep people prisoners of the cult. That's the issue here. The one Rabbi went to far in dehumanizing outsiders, didn't he?.
25. #1 Nice how you talk out of both sides of your mouth.
(08.11.10)
Read Mike. One time he will require a rabbi's certification, in the case of conversion, next time he will disregard their opinions. Which way is the wind blowing today Mike? You take your Xtian picking and choosing of Torah to a new level.
26. 25 - it's like this, mr anonymous paqid
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (08.11.10)
my non-acceptance of the rabbi's authority has nothing to do with the fact that YOU do not meet THEIR criteria of being a legitimate convert, which you claim to be. your teachings are not kosher and you have NEVER been able to prove it, therefore you're a fraud (and a hypocrite for posting anonymously like you decry).
27. Anonymous 22
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.12.10)
in a KGB communist state , all those would have disappeared , nobody would talk about them anymore
28. 24 , for a monster , look at a mirror
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.12.10)
you will see a cross too
29. #22 Don't blame Russia for Zionistic Values
Avi   (08.14.10)
Jews and especially Rabbis had a lot to do with socialism. Sadly 10 families in Israel run and own most of state. Those families are not Russian. Clearly sharing the wealth takes a back seat to oppressing, monipolizing and confusing native Jews into settling on a pittance.
30. The Torah Must Prevail over the corrupt system!
Tzvi ,   NY U.S.A.   (08.17.10)
Good for the Rabbis for speaking the Truth. The law of Jews is the Torah and not the elitist, arab-loving Israeli court of injustice. It is forbidden by Jewish law to cooperate with this hellinistic court system, someone who takes a Jew to this court is labeled a Rasha according to G-D.
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