They are only "central players" because they have political clout. Years ago, when they contributed nothing and demanded nothing, they were marginalized and there was a policy of "live and let live" on both sides of the divide

Israel is not a religious State - it's a secular Jewish state and nothing is going to change that. If they stop telling the seculars how to live and mind their own business, everything in the garden will be roses - but they leaches don't. They are causing all the problems here.

Is it 1939 Germany or 2010 Israel? Am yisroel chai! And may Hashem bless and protect ALL Jews as they are...we need each other brother.

they are because they have declared themselves as such. Outsiders they shall remain because that is the way they want it. But with their growth rate and expansion they will turn this country into something that was not intended and history will never forgive them. They shall bring about the downfall of modern day Israel as we know and understand it and as our forebears,"the Fathers of Zionism" had intended. I for one will either not be alive or not be here to witness it. If I am still alive I shall witness it from afar, with a tear in my eye and a very heavy heart. This land is no longer for me. Four wars I have fought for love of this land, for love of this people, but I can find no love in my heart for these strange folk and I certainly cannot find it in me to call them Jews or my people. Sad, I am very sad to see what is happening. Their objective is clear and the path is open. They cannot be stopped.

a good question, the answer to which can be seen in two ways

True, the chareidim sit at the table of dirty politics, but if they want to sit at the table of Klal Yisrael (the greater Jewish community) they have much more to do: serve in the IDF, earn a living and desist from the demonization of other Jews that is at the heart of their philosophical outlook. When all that happens, they will have finally earned their place at the lavish table of Klal Yisrael.

1. Israel is not a "secular" Jewish state. Not only is it increasingly and statistically becoming religious, but by it's very nature it is based on our faith. The Declaration of Independance enshrines the Jewish right of return to the land given to us in the Bible. Take away the Bible and we have no reason to be here. 2. You sound scared, could that be because kiruv is so successful? Could that be because there is an awakening of Torah Judaism amongst the young Jews these days? You are part of a quickly disappearing minority my friend, so it is YOU who needs to conform or go live with the goyim who you idolise so.

I am not being facetious,but there is something I don't understand: If Torah cannot be changed, nothing can be taken out or added, what, exactly, do all these devout Orthodox study night and day, for years and years? Are they looking for loopholes or things everybody's missed during 2000+ years of reading? I can read Plato's Apology 100 times and from now until the cows come home and it always ends with, "I go to die, you go to live. Which of us goes to the better lot is known to no one, except the god." Socrates never ended up not drinking hemlock, either. Now if old Greeks could come up with some rather concise writing, why does God supposedly have to be studied, interpreted and re-interpreted incessantly to be understood??

Haredim isolate themselves into their little shtetl bubble and refuse contact with the outside. Haredim can move about as they please in any secular area. A secular woman, dressed in secular fashion (NOT halfway exposed) would get slaughtered should she find herself in a Haredi neighborhood. Tolerance has to go both ways.

no problem -as long as thet are willing to be productive members of society-and recognize the medina--

They are beyond any fringe lunatic fraction of society.They only cause problems, nothing else.

Judaism has lasted for centuries throughout the worst in somewhat 'charedi' form, especially the part about respecting the rabbis and looking to them for guidance. - it cannot and will not change. Secular humanism is not Judaism - and when you say that REAL Judaism needs to embrace secular humanism - well, just look at all of those Judaism derivatives like Conservative and Reform and where they are today - most of their kids have assimilated. All of the guys I know who went to Hartmann are no longer religious in any case, so...the facts speak for themselves

It is the prescribed method of poisoning the human mind with nonsense. It is called brainwashing and it is all part of the effort to perpetuate the nonsense by controlling the minds of the "flock". If "God" created the heavens and the earth and Man, and one accepts this as axiomatic, then one accepts the need for a creator. If one accepts the need for a creator then one must ask who created "God". Nonsense of course. Ask any "learned" Rabbi in wich language Moses spoke to "God" during his sojourn on the mountain and he will tell you in Hebrew of course, the "holy" language. Moses was born, if at all, in Egypt and was brought up as a prince. To the best of my knowlege, and that of eminent historians, Egyptian princes did not speak Hebrew. Nonsense once again. As for "God", he was presumably multilingual although the Hebrew language had not yet been invented when Moses ascended the mount. It did have several precursors in the form of the various Canaanite dialects that evolved from the Semitic languages of Mesopotamia, but had not yet been in wide use, certainly not in Egypt. So "God" playing host to Moses on the mountain and communicating with him in Hebrew ( The Tablets ) is more nonsense. I could go on and on but for the sake of balance I shall admit that in the Torah are recorded many many historical facts that have been substantiated from external sources. Tha narrative of Genesis has yet to be confirmed. Give me Sagan any day.

are you serious?!?!?! do you really want the Hareidim to change to your thinking?!? why? and for what?!? what is your thinking based on?!?! any concrete fundementals to your ideaology?! Hareidim know exactly what Shabbath means! you don't have to teach them anything!! they take it from the TORAH and its open for everyone to see!! same is with marriage!! everything is written in TORAH and it is like this for the past 2000 year and will stay like this!! Hareidim will not change one bit just becuase you want to and just because you said so!!!! we follow the TORAH, whom do you follow? Shabbath Shalom!!

Look up Ramachandran on You Tube and listen to some of his lectures on "God" and the Human brain. It is so enlightening and so entertaining.

Freedom. I follow freedom, not slavery. Freedom is the highest value to which Man can aspire. Serving "God" is nothing but self inflicted slavery.

only if they dont serve or pay taxes--the same should be said of secular freeloaders--the worst are reform and conservatives and some hareidi too trying all the time to divide the jews to raise funds for their rabbis

They should start to behave as civilized persons if they want to be treated as such. They are the once that say that do not even belong to this world so.... By first we have to stop giving them free money while they hate hilonim. Hilonim are not ok, but our money is Kasher.

Why is it only on the secular to appease the Haredim? The Haredim go out of their way to isolate themseves and who consider seculars "non-Jews". It seems that the Haredim have deliberately made themselves outsiders. If they want acceptance, maybe they should moderate their own behavior.

Aviva from Jerusalem is simply incorrect. If she knows people who are no longer religious after studying at the Shalom Hartman, they represent a tiny fraction of those who eagerly study there. Jews of all kinds flock to the Shalom Hartman Institute for the dynamic, pluralistic engagement with living Judaism and tradition provided there. BTW, Reform Judaism is facing challenges these days, but it is clear that there are always those who do not want to live within in the strictures of Orthodoxy who seek out more liberal streams of Judaism. It has been going on for more than 100 years and continues to this day.

You seem like a good person who unfortunately was exposed to a simplistic, primitive version of Judaism (probably with the help of similar-minded rabbis). I understand your hostile reaction to religion. Please entertain the idea that what you are reacting to is a distortion of Judaism. (For example, the question of what language Moshe spoke is a non-issue. He communed with the Almighty non-verbally, as per Rambam.) Thank you for all you have done for our beloved State.

It is and it will always be the other way around. Youv'e got it all backwards. The haredim are the backbone of Israel. Without them...even the hypocrits among them, seculars who are the worst of everyone because they are the leeches have no chance of surviving! Another thing: Israel was, IS and will always be a Jesish State.

I'll change my attitude. Also, when they stop throwing stones at people who drive on Saturday and stop calling "Shabess" at people enjoying themselves in coffee shops on Saturday. That's the reality and they need to change their disgusting behavior in order for us to change attitudes towards them. Also it won't hurt if they serve in the army and work for living, like everybody else.

we need not create further divisions from one another, there is enough dissolution in the world without directing it towards ourselves

there is no such thing as a secular Jewish state, its an oxymoron. Judaism is a religion and a people. Also, your obvious hatred of religious people is sad and hurtful to those of us who are religious or actually know any religious people and have experienced the warmth and love they have for every individual Jew. U most likeley have never spent time with Chareidim so u have no right to say what u say. imagine of someone said that black people are causing all the problems in america and they need to act more like white people? and imagine if on top of that i had never spoken to or hung out with a black person?!?! id be a huge racist. what you are doing is NO different!

No time to waste on those living in the dark ages. Kick them out of civilized Israel and build a big zoo to park them there.

They too are making extreme efforts to what they consider conformity.

The Haridim want to live their own life style. That is their right and privilege. They do not have the right to try to force me to live that same lifestyle - and most especially not when they are living on my taxes!

the haredi but I do like rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss,he is cool and a really top notch person. The Palestinans will probably want the N.K to stay when the occupation is over

the religouse jews were be looked as strangers as the sociaty were not believers of one god it was before moses and after moses . sad that seculars is looking to these religouse as they are the strangers the low part of the sociaty and it is not becouse they are not modern but becouse they are religouse it is the same stamp from begining till now