deserve their share of societal goods independent of their productivity." This is not clear, Rabbi. In fact, many thinking people would reject this proposition. Your thinking on this subject is confused, simplistic and unwieldy. In short, a poor Ynet article.

Israeli men who have fought in four or even more wars and who have sacrificed themselves and injured themselves and who, even now, continue to suffer from these events. You are the ones who put your lives and futures on the line and whether I agree with you on every issue or not, I will always appreciate and respect you. When the Charedim come begging and complaining, it is towards Israeli veterans like you I will point to. I do appreciate the efforts shown by the Lubavitchers who do truly seem concerned about each and every Jew and the Breslovers who take their messages out to the worst of us all, drug users and alcoholics. But most of all, I appreciate the efforts of people like you, Sagi, one of the many unsung heros of our nation. So, once again, thanks and with deep appreciation on behalf of my daughter, son-in-law (whose father also fought in many wars) and grandchildren. Whether or not you believe in a higher or creative power makes not the slightest bit of difference to me. You have earned my gratitude many times over.

Black people in America do not tell white people that they shoud be black. Black people in America do not tell white people how to conduct their lives, what to eat and when to drive and when to open a shop and when not to open a shop. Black people in America do not have political parties which use coercion and downright blackmail to get their way which is contradictory to the way of others. Black people in America are part of the mainstream, they vote as their conscience dictates to them and not as the 'Rabbi" told them to. Your ilk are trying to force me and others to conduct our lives the way you do. I shall eat what I want and do what I want. I have had enough of your nonsense, I shall not live in a country that puts constraints on my freedom and my inalienable right to conduct my life in the manner I wish. Your comparison to black people in America is stupid to say the least.

Thank you Sir. Unsolicited and unwarranted, but thank you.

Whatever group you are affiliated with in Israel, you are Israeli First, a child of the most high God! Stand strong for Israel and don't waver! Together and without infighting, Israel can and will stand up to any nationor nations that desire to destroy this blessed land.

BEFORE ITS TOO LATE.....

I think this has nothing to do with the haredi being "central players in Israel's social and political environment." This has to do with them NOT being central players in work environment.

Just how many ways can YOU think-up as excusses to steal other people's money? No matter how you work it out; the what you call "insiders" themselves, are the one's seperating themselves from the vast majority of Jewishness in the world. They also seperate themselves by asking and somehow getting other people's money. This is a scam and if it doesn't stop soon, the rest of Israel will make it stop by means most people would not approve. Organized, politically supported thieft of most Israeli's money to give to people who would rather not work is not a way to foster respect for various beliefs.

As a foreigner who resides in Israel I've had my share of encounters with haredim. All of them were quite short since I seemed to represent some sort of evil for not speaking hebrew (a deadly sin I gather). I really wonder how this country will continue to be in the forefront of science and technology since the number of youngsters choosing to 'devote' their life in studying Torah is growing at a fast pace, birth rate among haredim being the only reason.There are many religious people in western societies but their attitude towards 'non-believers' is awfully better the haredi one. What a pity

until Israel demands change,ie-one person one vote and no work no bread nothing will change!

Until someone does something about the electoral system in Israel and the Haredim hold the balance of power, us hardworking taxpayers will continue to pay for political expedience. Given their growth rate, the fact that they sit and "study" all day and contribute nothing to the economy ( while also shamelessly pestering us for charity), and that we finance their lifestyles both by paying to Bituach Leumi which gives them unemployment benefits and other support ( they don't pay BL, because they don't work), and by paying taxes which are then used as "dowries" for political coalitions etc, by the next generation, so many more working Israeli's will be forced to live below the poverty line, not because of unemployment but because of the disproportionate burden of tax upon them. No rocket science: proportionately less people working and more people doing f*** all and claiming benefits.

The outsiders are very much inside,the haredim live in poland whose government they don't recognize,but this polish government protects them from pogroms,provides them with food, housing,education (their version of education),the haredim have both worlds,no obligations, only benefits,the reason for the secular tolerance of the haredim is, what Aba Kovner said:The haredim need the seculars,so,they would have a country,(call it what you may) the seculars need the Haredim so,they would have roots.But like all good things ,this too will come to an end soon,because the top of the pyramid is getting bigger and bigger,and the base can't support it anymore.

I find the capitalistic elite more evil and more disgusting. They leach way more out of society than the entire charedi culture. I have a feeling anti-charedi is a smoke screen to stop the struggling middle class from seeing how they have been used and abused by a minority elite. Politicians are the prime example. I remember int he days before Rabin, there was strict monitoring of politicians finances. Peres and Rabin both got snagged. So the laws were changed. Now we have politicians like Ehud Olmert and Barak, and generals that call their stock brokers on their way to war.

Israel without Haredim is like a tree without root.

How fast you forget. The Haredim were here in Israel long before the Zionist movement began!

They look different ? They live in their own communities, (ghettos) governed by power hungry rebbes, a community of tax cheaters, draft dodgers and "educated" in their schools financed by six-pack Joe where they learn how to screw him up with an impunity ,...

What will happen when the roots get bigger than the tree ? The tree will be buried in the earth while the roots will be reaching for heaven. Good for the roots, bad for the tree.

I totally disagree. Jews have a 'right' to Israel because of history, and that they won all the wars against the invading Arabs. God, in any form, is not a real estate agent.

Rashi was a winemaker, Rambam was a doctor -- all of the great rabbis worked. What makes Heredim so special? Answer: Other people let them get away with it.

All you supporters of the Haridi seem to miss a few salient points. 1. G-d helps those who help themselves. 2. If everybody followed their example the state would disappear due to lack of funds as nobody would work and pay taxes except perhaps the overworked women nor would we have any of the professions such as in medicine. 3. Many great rabbis were against making the study of torah your only occupation. 4. The Haridi in every other country must work for a living. 5. The torah commands that the land of Israel must be defended, in today’s world this means a well trained & supplied military making military service a mitzvah. 6. There is a great deal of discrimination among the Haridi against other Haridi sects & other steams of Judaism. 7. Their behavior is based on 16th century doctrine and in many cases is just inconsistent with 21st century living especially in regard to women.

In what do they participate ? cultural events ? Sports ? work ? contribution to the State ? They , most of them , only take and live isolated from the outside world . And , no need for rotten roots .

As an ole hadas I can list the insiders and outsiders as such according to my observations: Setllers,national-religious,haredim are definitely insiders more than anybody else.A big part of secular people are also insiders but a small but significant part of secular people are only biologically born here. But their mentality belongs to the outsiders.All other unlisted are also outsiders.

They are not outsiders, nor are they members of any normal society They are Torah Squatters. they are City squatters, they are society squatters! Drive them into the desert so they can live on Manna from Hashem and impose their ways on themselves Get rid of this carbuncle on the face of our majority society!!

Number 53, I am not sure how long you have been here or what rock you crawled out from under, but if you came here from anything that resembled a normal society, then you would notice that the Haredim are not only oursiders to Israel, but their precise actions make them outsiders to the Torah! Your determination of outsiders is bigoted, racist and narrow minded. "Outsiders" built this country, without them you would still be "outside"!!!

Rotten roots? In your anger you see only the shade,not the LIGHT. Haredi produce for Israel Jewish children.These children are Israel s future.And most probably they will contribute and defend Israel,as these are commandements of the Tora.It depends on the Rabbi they will have .Have a SUNNY day,Charles.

Wake up Sagi.This is a nightmare.In real life the bigger the root the stronger the tree.I hope sincerely you will live long enough to see how all these Haredi children will contribute and defend Israel and by doing this, they are keeping the Tora.These are commandements of the Tora.The split there is now between the secular and haredi.is due to ignorance of both sides about the other.We need to know each other better,and will discover that we complete each other.Don t forget that a great part of what you are,and you can be proud of that, is the result of your haredi ancester s 3000 years way of life.Jews were called the people of the Book.Because of that, our brains are better developped.Give the haredi a little place in your heart.You won t regret it.Let s be ONE united great people.Have a lovely day,Sagi.

If you call the self sacrifing settlers and our haredi brothers and sisters outsiders then I presume you drink or smoke a heavy stuff in your favourite bar or live in another world.

And most probably they will contribute , you wrote . Day dreams Ora , we have'nt seen many of those charidim contribute to the State nor defending her . So Torah commandements are only for the future ? and what about past and today's charidim ? do they had/have an other Torah that did not command them to do so ? Was'nt there any Rabbi who told them to do so ? And you expect one in the future !

The secular in 48 were children or grandchildren from haredim,so what i am saying is very possible.I wish they will contribute AND keep Tora.There were many great Rabbis in the past who told them to do so.So let us think good and it will be good.I wish the jewish people(you included)a bright future.