Not seen very much of those "Rabbis" . Becomi8ng secular is a positive way , returning to the dark middler ages NOT

#58, are you sure you actually live in Israel, or are you just passing through on your camel?

Who wants to return to the dark ages(the time before we received the Tora).I wished us a bright future, remember?

The barking of a dog,does not disturb a man on a camel(a proverb)Lol

I have Dr. title in engineering from a very renowned university and speak 4 languages fluently.Measured IQ : 130.Now think about yourself !!!

How nice, such a degreed person. I too hold several degrees, speak 3 languages fluently (including english which judging by your writing skills you don't!). I do not know my IQ, where I came from it was not something shared, but I believe it is over 100. As for EQ, which is a more significant measurement in todays terms, you need to have that measured. How degreed, fluent or anything else you may be has little or nothing to do with the subject at hand. The issue is in reality the behaviour of the Haredim, their place (or lack thereof) in society and moreover, their contribution to the same society. It has been well enough documented that the Haredim are not only lacking in any kind of contribution to Israeli society, but are also unemployable and a drain on the finances of Israel And I am thinking about myself, but unlike you, I am also thinking about the rest of the hard working Israeli's whose hard payed taxes are supporting these leeches on our society. I arrived with little, work hard and fortunately earn a good living and I have paid tax from day 1 of being in Israel - some of which supports those who have no intention of ever working... Now, with you multitude of degrees and languages, your infinitely superior IQ and hopefully common sense, think about yourself. I assume you too are a diligent taxpayer, work (or did work) hard. Now do you like how your tax money is being spent? My dear Doctor, raise your EQ to your IQ, then we will continue this debate By the way, I would love to meet you, as you sound extremely interesting and would provide most stimulating company (in my language that is a compliment).

Woof!

SALMA's postings really should tell Israelis (everyhone) and Diaspora Jewry, all. Look guys, Arab Scuds and Kassams do not discriminate. They want ALL of you dead, get it, dead., from the secular to the ultra. 500,000 people cannot be shoved bgeneath the rug so to speak. If they want to be ultra observant, who cares? I dont. Let them. Here in the USA, we are also split..Orthodox dont mingle with Reform, etc. Who cares? But the difference, they are not pampered. , insular, but not maligned to a fault. If private charities want to finance them, so be it. Public money doesnt. They also feel the pressure of the non-Jewish community surrounding them..and tend to be ghettoized. Who really cares? But they are not brazenlyh arrogant with others. Israel should accept them as full citizens..but share the burdern of living there..work, military, etc. A constitution would help, defining what Israel is, and is not. Use them, dont abuse them..works both ways. Hitler killed every Jew..no discriminatiom there. Attracting 1m more Jews of all streams, would aid immensely in my opinion and keep the Muslkms guarded.

to the dark middle ages [ moyen age ] A bright future with the charidim ? Impossible . The barking of a dog disturbs the camel ! Those "olim Chadashim" had better returned to their hole abroad . Don't want to monopolose this site . Gmail ! .

My gmail is temporarely not available.But now i will tell the children,i don t need it anymore.

Ora ! you are right and wrong,the secular and the modern orthodox tree produces,Doctors,Egineers,high tech,while the haredi tree doesn't even produce shade, before the war in 1 neighborhood in Krakow there were more Talmudic scholars, without government help,than in the kolels of today in Jerusalem -Bene Berak combined,concerning the people of the book,the Jury is still out to determine the reason why European Jews,especially German Jews destinguished themselves in every field,while the Jews of Yemen North Africa,the middle east,with the same book, stayed on the same level as the Muslim population,the reason for that could be, A in the last 500 years the European none Jews were way ahead of the Muslims,so, when Napoleon freed the Jews from the gethos,the Jews were ready to enjoy the new freedoms, in education ,business,industry,B The study of the Talmud (not the kolels) was more common in Germany and Eastern Europe than in the Muslim world,C Persecution,Jews of Europe were persecuted more than the Jews in the Muslim world,and when your life is threatened on a daily base you put your mind to maximum use,so you have here a combination of enviroment and Genes,when the bituach leumy will be eliminated ,and the Rabbis and the politicians will lose their grip over the Haredy population,the Haredis will storm out from their mental gheto and conquer every field, like German and French Jews did 170 years ago,and than the seculars will scream, GEWALD !!! those new commers are so ambitious,they are a real threat to as ,but a benefit to the state of Israel,Amen ken yehi ratson.

salma is a rishian not moslem butshe is a palastinian she is secular .. here our problem is not the religion but the unjustice .. i think it is the same in israil sociaty -the jews - it must be not the religouse or not but it must be the justice . i do not know the haredim but i hear that they are not modern in cleaness and using the technology it is to be blamed not that they are religouse

Dear Ora Thanks! Love your tongue in cheek and the support. And how your mind works!!! Mark xx

Please connect to discuss further samanisrael@gmail.com

No Gmail anymore for you ? You will loose , not i . Have a nice day

Charles, stop taking yourself so seriously! Lol!!!

Dear Charles, Did i misunderstand you? So sorry.Friends?

Thanks for your most interesting analysis.I don t think the secular will say GEWALD!!! They will take over from the Haredi the torch and will study Tora.Shalom.

As soon as i can reach my children,i will tell them the compliment you made to their proud mother. Mark,i would love to discuss with you,but on Ynet.Thanks.Waf(sefarad dog language)

And what have the children to do with any of this. I love the "waf" - made me smile I honestly believe that while there is a lot to be said against the haredim (who really display themselves as intolerant etc), there is an equal lack of understanding in the secular arena All said and done however if there was a mutual 2 way RESPECT for how each wanted to live their lives, and the level of Judaism chosen, then we have a lesser conflict. The issue is that the Haredim refuse to accept anything less than that which they believe and resort to malicious, undignified behaviour against those who aren't haredim And that my dear is ultra vires the precepts of the Torah! Ho hum, this subject is now rather droll, time to move on. Lets all bash Obama, America's greatest almost decent leader

I forgot that for you i have to be very "explicite" . Of course friends . Have a nice day .

Have you ever tried to talk on a friendly basis with a Haredi family?There are organisations who can help you to be introduced..You seem to me a dynamic and clever man ,who has the skills and enough curiosity,to open the difficult and unattractif door,which leads to unexpected wonderful discoveries.Camels are not allowed.Have a lovely day.

I do not understandTRY#3 either.

Thank you for "Vesimcha" I like it.