Jewish Scene
Give me children or give me death
Sarit Rosenblum
Published: 02.12.10, 08:59
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31. Unfortunate Circumstance
American Sabrah ,   Givas Shmilkeh   (12.02.10)
Rather than criticize this woman for being foolhardy, I sympathize with her dilemma.No one should ever have to go through this ordeal. Putting your life in lines for others for a noble cause is a courageous thing to do.However, as a religious Jew myself - we are commanded by the Torah to safeguard our health, are we not? Yes there are consequences that we must take into consideration while making decisions on a life and death matter but we have to discern whats best for us in the long.I recognize the patient's right to choose if she wants to forgo medical treatment or not.Most people want to live long enough to be parents. At the same token, we are begged to ask whether her choice is foolish or worth her while.
32. Dodo Birds
Aryeh ,   NY USA   (12.02.10)
I find the comments here to be a bit off the wall and very disapointing. 1 - Don't believe that everything you read is the full story. There are probably a few facts that have not been included that might make the issues less nebulous. 2 - Jewish Law (as practiced by Orthodox Jews) does not encourage one to put her life in clear danger or to refuse life-saving technology. As such, any rabbi who is faced with the issues (as they appear here, which may or may not be the entire case) would insist that she save her life rather than refuse treatment, even if the treatment would render her childless. Whilst we have a high birthrate, we do not consider our wives, sisters, or mothers to be factories. I can only assume that there are other factors which may contraindicate surgery, and none of these have anything to do with having children.
33. Endometrial Cancer
(12.02.10)
In 2009, I had a total hysterectomy and radiation treatments are a result of endometrial cancer. Because I wasn't as young as this woman, I didn't go through the symptoms of premature menopause. However, the wife of an acquaintance of mine died of endometrial cancer after five years (an inordinately long period of time) of indescribable suffering. Knowing what awaits women who allow this disease to go untreated, I can't even fathom how this young woman could choose not to have the hysterectomy, even if it meant she can no longer have children.
34. #23 & 28, Rivka only cares about what Rivka thinks
Israelit ,   Israel   (12.02.10)
No one else's sensitivities or beliefs matter to her. Her mind and heart are closed. She has a direct line to heaven, didn't you know? Don't even bother to answer her.
35. difficult decision
ORA ,   Jerusalem   (12.02.10)
I think that everybody should have the right to decide for himself.Of course family and friends can try to convince her.But she must have the last word.If she is religious she will probably listen to the Rabbi.Why is the Rabbi waiting?May be he knows things we don t know,and is not convinced of the surgery.Nobody knows the outcome of the latter.May G-D help her to take the right decision.Hanuka Sameah.
36. 28A good example is the best teaching
ORA ,   Jerusalem   (12.02.10)
37. She did Ask A Rabbi.
Jeffrey ,   Israel   (12.02.10)
That's what is so horrific!
38. give me children
debbie ,   israel   (12.02.10)
What a tragic strory, and such a young woman. What about a woman, without cancer, who simply cannot have children. Or her husband cannot Isn't adoption, a legitimate option? Maybe not the optimal one, but to choose to die????
39. Incompetent?
daat y ,   israel   (12.02.10)
Thewoman should have a psychiatric evaluation to determine if she is competent to refuse treatment.. Jewish law requires that she undergo accepted treatment. Her life supercedes all other obligations.
40. doctors may not be right
david ,   new york   (12.02.10)
the article seems to suggest that if only she would go for the surgery, that she would not die of cancer. oftentimes, these surgeries are not cures. as a physician in the U.S., I can only wonder what would happen to my license if I would go around to rabbis to discuss a patient's case gainst the will of that patient. can you spell HIPAA??
41. #1 sheep can't read either I see
Bob Sakamoto ,   Chicagol Il   (12.02.10)
Haim, Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy a good and baseless anti-charedi bash from a good tev-avivian but..."from the article we do not know if she already has kids"...um...it says"The doctors told the young women, who has yet to give birth". (I guess reading the artcicle would help but whatever. They're charedim anyway. Who cares about details as long as they dont fight in the army! am I right?!) Also, great point about all of those "child molester Rabbis". Again, big fan of ad homonim arguments, but really, I think you could do better. Then again, maybe you can't. Keep it up though. Love the level of scholarship and analysis. Yea Dawkins!
42. #24 Post of the Century. Thank You Alon. Glad cooler head
Jae ,   Lynn US   (12.02.10)
prevailed. You are right. Some people get this whacked grin in their head to bash religion. Ironically everyone is religious, its about what you value and worship..be it your car your bling bling or your Creator. The biggest murderers have usually been non spiritual religious and non religious. mao, stalin, hitler, khmer rouge killed over 100million. they were atheists par excellence. no kidding...
43. 23 Felicia, Israel: Thank you. You are so kind, too.
Rivkah   (12.02.10)
44. 36 Ora, Jerusalem: Thank you.
Rivkah   (12.02.10)
45. To Ora , 35 . No deifficult decision
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (12.02.10)
LIFE before everything .
46. No. 40 David
(12.02.10)
According to my oncologist, the cure rate for endometrial cancer is around 85%...in large part because the symptoms, while not painful, are so damned annoying that most women seek medical treatment before the cancer has significantly advanced (as opposed to ovarian cancer which is so insidious because of the fact that by the time the symptoms appear, the cancer has already progressed beyond the point at which it's treatable. And it saddens me to think this young woman was going to die a needless death that, in all likelihood, could have been avoided.
47. 45Charles
ORA ,   Jerusalem   (12.02.10)
I guess you are right ,because if one has decided the opposite,he can t change his mind anymore.Hanuka Sameah.
48. #34 Rivkah thinks? wow! now that's NEWS!
(12.03.10)
49. 28 Peppermint Paddy: Having a bad day, eh?
Rivkah   (12.03.10)
Taking it out on me, eh?
50. #28 Peppermint Paddy- agree 110% !!!
Mat ,   USA   (12.03.10)
51. Less criticism, more prayer
Granny ,   Vermont, USA   (12.03.10)
As I have so often told my daughters, any darned fool can have a child. It takes no talent, no training and no experience. But then, there is such a thing as quality of life. This is a horrendous form of cancer and it sounds as if her's is well advanced - perhaps to the point that surgery will not add a single day to her life. In the end, we must each answer for our own actions. I will pray for her.
52. Adopt
Mark ,   Jerusalem   (12.03.10)
G-D created doctors to be able to heal on his behalf. It is a great pitty that a woman should choose to die because she can't raise children of her own. But its a mitzva to raise other children even if they are not yours. There are children who need to be adopted for one reason or another. So instead of dying it would be better to give a child a home.
53. Pikuach Nefesh !
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (12.03.10)
Her life is what should be important to her and her family . Having children , even it's important , is only secondary to this .
54. Ya allshould know....
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel Aviv   (12.03.10)
... there are many women, not religious, or of other religions, who chose death over a hysterectomy. And as those who have read my posts know, I am no fan of religious fundamentalists of any stripe. I think a woman who choses death ovre infertility has some serious issues, but that's another kettle of fish.
55. Contact faith healers like Sid Roth or Benny Hinn.
Rivkah   (12.03.10)
Jonathan Hansen is another one. All have healing miracles in people attributed to YHWH healing people through them. Jason Winters had a huge tumor on his face and half his face would have to be removed if he had surgery. He was the double for Jay Silverheels who played Tonto on the old Lone Ranger tv program. Instead of surgery, he spent his savings traveling around the world to see how other cultures treated cancer and with what herbs. He put the ingredients together in a tea called "Jason Winters' Tea" and drank gallons of it a day for many days. Voila! the tumor on his face disappeared. The Canadian Indian remedy for cancer is Essiac or FlorEssence Tea, also called Prairie Tea. In the early part of the 1900's, Canadian nurse Rene Caisse noticed that Indians who were diagnosed with cancer did not come back to the clinic, but got well. She found that the Indian Medicine Men gave the cancer sufferers a tea from several ingredients like burdock, slippery elm bark, turkey root and a few other ingredients. My husband and I drink Essiac or FlorEssence tea every day. It pulls toxins out of the body which is a help in preventing a lot of diseases and getting the diseases one has into remission or reversal.
56. The positive about having a surgical menopause is that
Rivkah   (12.03.10)
taking estradiol 1 mg 25 days out of 30 keeps a woman looking younger longer. My nieces asked me how I looked so young when their mother who is two years older than I am looks much older. My reply was an early life surgical menopause (removal of uterus and ovaries). The Patriarch Abraham's wife Sarah was barren until her great old age and was a famous beauty.
57. #26 onto something, but ...
Ben ,   USA   (12.03.10)
#26 is onto something. A number of women apparently base their identity as women on their ability to have children. But here is where my sympathy ends. What about women who are unable to have children because (a) they had a hysterectomy, (b), God created them without the right female reproductive organs, or (c) whatever reason? Are they less than women? Only the woman in the situation who encounters that situation can answer that for herself. And you know what? She'll always come out the winner in her own Hero's Quest for her identity. Surprise, surprise. She finds that womanhood is in her spirit, not in the female reproductive tract. I know I will catch venom for this from those who do not agree with me. But I had to say it on behalf of the poor woman who does choose to have a hysterectomy and who cries herself to sleep at night mourning the loss of so-called "friends" who believe her womanhood vanished with her hysterectomy. Equating womanhood with one's ability to give birth to children is cruel, catty, despicable, and beyond contempt. The person who tells me I cannot speak this blasphemy because I'm male has nothing but my disrespect.
58. rabbinical death sentence?
Dr. Rob   (12.03.10)
while the rabbi is trying to make up his mind- this woman is dying. What difference does it make if she, theoretically, could have a child. With this type of cancer there is almost 0% chance she will live without surgery, let alone ever have a child. So, yes, Rabbi, take your time, get a 3rd opinion, pray- this poor woman is on deathrow because of you!
59. brainwash
rita   (12.03.10)
a hysterectomy is NOT a death sentence, most women do NOT go crazy. grow old prematurely etc... there are medications to counteract possible effects- . I know from personal experience, I had surgery when I was 35- I am normal, healthy, happy- Women need to be told by experts not superstitious old fools, most arguments against are old wives tales from the last century. The last person I would consult is a rabbi or priest or whatever.. The rabbi is going to be responsible for the death of this poor woman who is so brainwashed into thinking that children are more important than her life. With her illness she will not have children anyway- she will be dead-
60. This is bigger than a Jewish issue...
Dorothy Friend ,   TEl Aviv   (12.03.10)
...there are far too many women, I would say most of them religous (all relgions) but some not, who think their lives are worthless if they can't give birth. Sad. I never heard of a man choosing death rather than infertility. Impotence maybe, but not infertility.
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