News
'Our heart is torn'; Fire victim laid to rest
Shmulik Hadad
Published: 05.12.10, 18:12
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
101 Talkbacks for this article
61. I have an idea
Alan ,   Calif.   (12.05.10)
Let the writer of this article approach some Muslim qadis in Israel and insist that from now on, all Muslims should be buried in the same cemetery as Jews. Because being buried separately is scandalous, is 'treating the Muslims like dirt.' How do you think these Muslim religious leaders would react?
62. her mum wasent Jewish
gershom ben david ,   shavey shomron   (12.05.10)
hey guys get real ,if her mum wasent jewish then she also wasent jewish.whats the problem????????tell me something every time a read a ynet article you have a christian advert , are you guys trying to convert jews to the christian religion...who are you maybe you are wolfs dressed in sheeps clothing!!!!!!!!!!!!
63. To number 3
John   (12.05.10)
Perfectly said!
64. 34 Phoenix, Israel: Only Jews go to heaven, that's why.
Rivkah   (12.05.10)
Christians must become Jews in their hearts with the Torah written on their hearts to go to heaven. The foundations and roots of the true Christian faith are Jewish. To deny a Christian the right to be buried in a Jewish cemetery is to say the Christian was a false believer who was not a Jew in her heart.
65. Rabbinate
Tomy ,   Israel   (12.05.10)
As a Jewish patriot I strongly belive that its really time to strip Rabbinate from all influences on political sistem.The Giurs have to be made only through IDF.Serving in army should be obligatory for Haredim.Neturei Karta and Satmar and other Eda Haredi groups should be banned,their eventual future followers expelled.
66. if she wanted to be known as a jew
sweeter than honey ,   far away   (12.05.10)
or felt she was a jew, whatever her pedigree, and she went through my patented conversion process (which entails announcing three times that one is a jew to at least ten assembled jewish adult witnesses), then in death as in life her attitude should be respected. after reading the talkbacks here ( and similar elsewhere) concening kennel-club judaism (who was her sire etc.), i doubt very very much whether the majority of you share any common DNA with some ancient bearded mesopotamian goatherder who has left you a message that you are (being his descended kith and kin) something special, and you forget your humility, etc.. right.
67. Tania's mother not Jewish
Joe Charlap ,   Mevasseret Zion   (12.05.10)
The Rabbis should be ashamed of themselves. Have they forgotten that compassion is one of the cornerstones of Judaism. Tania's mother lost a daughter in this tragedy and Tania lost her life in the service of the State. I find their action totally un Jewish
68. Children aren't responsible for the actions
BEN JABO ,   ISRAEL/USA   (12.05.10)
or lack of actions of their parents She died in the service of Israel, wearing the uniform of Israel She should have been buried with honor alongside of others that died in the service of Israel The Rabbi's could have made a post mortem conversion, the same way they circumsize a male that wasn't born Jewish while he was still alive A corpse is washed before burial, a Mikva could have done the same for her
69. why seperate cementries?
whatever   (12.05.10)
why aren't there cementries that serve all people? They do exist in most Western countries! Everyone regardless of religion is burried there!!! Why do the rabbis have so much to say in Israel? In Europe civil marriage predates the French Revolution! Only Israel is on the level of Iran in that matter!!!
70. If she wasn't Jewish....
Gila ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (12.05.10)
...then she could not be buried in a Jewish cemetery. This decision by the Rabbinate had to be made according to halacha, and I am sure those involved would have been as sensitive as they could be and did their best to find a suitable place for her to be buried. There is nothing heartless or unusual that should be read into this decision, and while this terrible tragedy of the Carmel fire has brought shock to us all, frankly there was no other decision the Rabbinate could make in the circumstances.
71. #59 "5000 years"
Shimon ,   Florida   (12.06.10)
"because according to 5000 years of tradition she isn't Jewish" Matrilineal descent is a post-Biblical invention that thankfully is not followed by Jews who have a real understanding of our history and traditions.
72. Rivka #64
RR   (12.06.10)
Do you have know how many people are tired reading you. Why don't you take a long leave of absence ... go spend some vacation and take your tanah' with you. Give us a break with your relilgion.........
73. Heartless bigots
Abramovich ,   Israel   (12.06.10)
With no consideration of circumstances of death, oh my... Oh well, that's a disgrace. You're absolutely right. The girl surely should've been recognised as Jewish. Or may be she could've been promoted to the next rank, also posthumously, instead. The accomplished feat in any case should've helped her out from her inferior Gentile status. What a shame that the ultra-orthodox fringes are so selfish and thankless, as always. They even didn't recognise her as Jewish, even now, after she had sacrificed her life! By this they have deeply insulted feelings of all non-Jews in Israel and in all the other countries of the world. It is highly insignificant what the girl herself thought about her own Jewishness, whether did she see herself Jewish or Russian or not, it was just ABSOLUTELY INHUMAN to bury her as she is, leaving her forever in the miserable gentile status she spent her life. The religious fanatics could just do some of their obscurantist ordinances and transform the deceased to the Jew. Instead they just buried her as some… non-Jew. It’s so typical to these stiff-necked and heartless ultra- bigots. The State of Israel should thwart their anti-non-Jewish plot and get rid of this scum as soon as possible. P.S. May her memory be a blessing.
74. Her family wished her be honored as a jewish. Embarassing !!
Justin Case ,   Brasil   (12.06.10)
75. #2 I agree , its so cruel and disgusting
rachel ,   usa   (12.06.10)
76. #9 her father was jewish , so she is jewish enough of the
rachel ,   usa   (12.06.10)
narrow minded . Just do a DNA . Get with the times....its 2010
77. Ignore the heroine
Alexander ,   NJ USA/Israel   (12.06.10)
It's disheartening to see how little Jews know about Jewish laws. So many on here are playing the reverse racism card, it's ridiculous. She died a hero by Jewish and non-Jewish standards, but that doesn't mean we should add or take away anything form who she was in life or in death. She was a righteous gentile and those that would claim it's unfair to bury her in a non-Jewish cemetery are ignorant of who she really was and deny her the right to be herself even in death, shame on you. I understand you only wish to honor her and naturally what better way to honor someone than making them apart of yourself, ie Jewish, but that's just being egocentric. Your not honoring who she was instead your demanding her to be who you want. Don't let the deaths of all those people be another expression of ignorance to gentiles and Jews alike. She didn't die as a Jew because she wasn't one, but she was still an Israeli and died like the rest for her people in an attempt to save the lives of others. That makes her as much of a hero as anyone else - don't rob her of that much.
78. She is Worthy
Ron ,   OC, USA   (12.06.10)
The Rabinite is heavy handed and wrong. They are not evil.
79. Anti-Semitism in reverse.
Frank ,   Nesher   (12.06.10)
Anti-Semitism in reverse.
80. The Real Tragedy
Dan ,   USA   (12.06.10)
My condolences to her family. She died a hero. This points out the total rediculousness of organized religion. She died, her body will decay and that is it. It is no different for those buried in a Jewish plot. What the hell does that even mean? That anyone in the world should have ever die because of religion is the tragedy of mankind.
81. how do you prove that everyone who entered Israel after
(12.06.10)
world war 2 was jewish ?I am sure many had jewish father only .
82. I bet if you took DNA of rabbis most
(12.06.10)
would have very little jewish descent especially those very white ashkenazi jews
83. Non-Jewish?
David ,   Haifa, Israel   (12.06.10)
The Tanakh does NOT say that Jewishness is based on the mother. This is an essentially post-Biblical era ruling by men, not by G-d. It is time we stop treating any rabbi or sage, no matter how wise or great, as if their decisions are the same as G-d's decrees. Defining a Jew is NOT the job of a committee of rabbis, and never was.
84. #14 Birdi
David ,   Haifa, Israel   (12.06.10)
NO, it is NOT through the mother in the "Jewish" religion. There is a post-biblical rabbinic tradition to this effect, but a huge percentage of Jews would disagree with you, and not accept the authorities that you accept.. Besides, G-d did NOT issue such a teaching in Torah. Look hard--it isn't there!!
85. Many Jews will be intentionally choosing this option
JO   (12.06.10)
for secular burials and the right to think and be buried as want.
86. Talia, the rabbinate and Shiloh
Eli ,   Israel   (12.06.10)
Terrible is the exclusion of non-Jews from cemeteries. The whole system stinks and should be dropped; let the govt. supply non-denominational cemeteries for people and let the rabinnate lose its control over who gets married and who can be buried and where. Agav, Shilo may be in Eretz Yisrael, but it is definitely not in Medinat Yisrael.
87. Good Work Rabbis!
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (12.06.10)
If her mother is non-Jewish and she never properly converted, then she is not Jewish. Simple. Nothing wrong in not being Jewish. She died a brave and tragic death and Heaven will properly reward her. So, what's the problem?
88. Fire victim buried in non-Jewish plot
rachel ,   galut   (12.06.10)
so, poor girl was Jewish enough to make aliyah, was Jewish enough to serve Israel and die doing so, but she isn't Jewish enough for Jewish burial? Guess Rabbinate would reject Ruth, Zippora, Batsheva for Jewish burial too... what an utter shame. Barukh Dayan Emet for Tanya and all victims of this tragedy.
89. JP should be ashamed!
Mark ,   KS, Israel   (12.06.10)
What a disgusting article to publish by a trouble making and left wing "rag" called the Jerusalem Post. I am not an extremely religious Jew, in fact, I am ordinary "middle of the road". however there are certain precepts in Judaism that stand, and the laws of burial are one of them. This was a beautiful, brave, selfless heroine - who never contemplated her life in going to help others and she should be adored and remembered for that. The fact of where and how she was buried is not necessary to report on - what are the JP trying to do? create incidents out of something that does not exist? Why are there then not daily headlines of every "non-Jew" who passes away in Israel who are not buried in a Jewish cemetary JP editoral staff, you are a disgrace - creating headlines out of a non-event during a family's time of heartbreak . I will now cancell my daily JP delivery, I cannot support such negligent reporting!
90. Know one knows where Moshe lies. G-d will care?
Josh   (12.06.10)
Previous talkbacks
Next talkbacks
Back to article