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How the West wasn't won
Yedioth Ahronoth
Published: 17.03.11, 10:11
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91 Talkbacks for this article
31. to Harmen from the Netherlands
Alex ,   Givat Shmuel, Israel   (03.17.11)
Dear Harmen, it can not be explained in a talkback, but if you want you can write or leave your email.
32. If, as #10 says, we are not the center of the universe ...
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, USA   (03.17.11)
... then why does the world focus on Israel and a few million Arabs? Why does Human Rights Watch submit more reports on Israeli actions than it does on Libya, the Congo, Iran or Saudi Arabia? Why has the UN established special offices and special programs (e.g. UNRWA) *just* for the Palestinians, and not for any other "oppressed" peoples or refugees? Why does Israel have more foreign journalists per capita than any other country? I am less concerned about why the photos themselves were not published than why they didn't in any significant way compel the journalists and the editors they work under to reconsider the narratives they have been pursuing for so long - the one that insists that Palestinians are righteous and Israel is always to be faulted.
33. What
Intedi Nensak ,   Stockholm, Sweden   (03.17.11)
34. Response to #28
Liora ,   USA   (03.17.11)
Harmen: For an accurate understanding of Palestinian goals, please read the Hamas Charter (can be googled). To understand that the depth of this intent to commit genocide is a GLOBAL anti-jewish endeavor, (as one small example) see the recent gang rape and beating of Lara Logan (reporting as a non-jewsih sympathizer on behalf of the Egyptian people) in their moment of freedom, read how the Arab countries and PA/Gaza teach their children to hate Jews. The problem with the Left is that they really believe Pals/Arab world will be satisfied after a Palestinian state is created. That could not be further from the truth. Without a Jewish West Bank (Judea/Samaria), Israel will be geographically indefensible. Israel can not be protected. In order to understand this in depth, I invite you to physically visit Israel and see for yourself how Israel is physically vulnerable to attack.
35. We Jews Have A Strange Perspective
carlbarry ,   Long Island, NY   (03.17.11)
As an Orthodox Jew, I must say: the world doesn't revolve around Israel. My fellow synagogue congregants also think that every politicians' main concern should be Israel. Just ain't gonna happen. There was a LOT of death and destruction the past couple of weeks. To think that the murder of Jews in Israel would bring the world's news sources to their knees is just unreasonable.
36. Thank you Ynet
BJL ,   usa   (03.17.11)
For giving proper coverage of the Itamar murders without the implied editorial that they deserved it because they were beyond the green line. Kol hakavod
37. what did you expect?
Intedi Nensak ,   Stockholm, Sweden   (03.17.11)
The fact of the matter is that these people willingly moved to a disputed warzone. This is about as surprising as soldiers dying during the Iraq invasion. The shocking part is that these parents seriously decided this was a good place to raise their children.
38. Time to Control the Message
robert ,   USA   (03.17.11)
If Israel wants to improve its image, it must control the number of journalist and what they can report and show. Cutting the numbers of journalist, especially those from the hostile media (BBC, Al-Jazeera, CNN etc and even HaAretz) allowed to work in Israel will be a big help. There is no reason why the number of journalist in Israel has to be out of proportion to those assigned to other countries. The message that must be sent if you can't tell the truth you don't belong here. Another suggestion is to make all reporters pass a history test before they are allowed to work in Israel.
39. Rokdim al ha-dam
Jew and Zionist ,   Arlington VA   (03.17.11)
Israel blew it here. The murder of the Fogel family was horrific and hopefully the murderers will be caught. But trying to score PR points from an attack on a settlement is hopeless - even more so when the settlement in question is Itamar. And even more so when the Israeli response seems like "rokdim al ha-dam" (they're dancing on the blood). Any sympathy Israel might have gotten vanished the moment Israel decided that this was the perfect pretext to build more houses in the occupied territories. Finally, the statements of some Israeli officials sounded like the very incitement/extremism that Israel complains about on the Palestinian side.
40. Infounded assumptions masquerading as something else...
Mikesailor ,   Miami, FL   (03.17.11)
Whi murdered the Fogels? I have no idea and neither do the writers. Was it Palestinians? Was it Israeli Jews? Organized crime? Everyone makes assimptions based on their prejudices. By the way, with scores of Libyans dying during their revolt, the Japanese earthquake, tsunami and possinle nuclear catastrophe, and numerous other reports of death and destruction around the world, isn't it the height of misguided arrogance and stupidity to pontificate and ask why this story is more important to the world because it concerns a Jewish family instead of the scores already dead? Is the lack of front-page coverage a show of antisemitism, or merely a refection of the fact there are more important things to cover?
41. Why the world is silent...
Norah ,   LA, USA   (03.17.11)
To acknowledge such evil would require action, as well as an acknowledgment of the inconvenient truth - "there is no true peace possible in the ME"...that doesn't fit their agenda, so they put blinders on. With natural disasters they can send aid and feel good, with the slaughter of a family with small children and an infant would require more than writing a check-that's just too much effort. The situation in Japan was an "easy out" for the media. This was not "simply a murder of a family" as another poster stated, this was an atrocity that SHOULD shock every fiber of a human's being-that it did NOT is a testament to moral bankruptcy. The world thinks Israel needs to do all the conceding and that they are the obstacle to their peace agenda, had an Israeli slaughtered a "palestinain" family you can bet that the media would play it up-regardless of Japan's news, and that the world would be demanding an enforced "palestinian state". It is time for Israel to realize that she needs to act in her best interest or the world will end up making those decisions for her.
42. Most journalists and lefties in general
Zev ,   Israel   (03.17.11)
do not want to be bothered with the facts and do not like anything that may prove their beliefs wrong. That is one of the reasons why the internet has been so successful when it comes to getting the facts. Most surfers are smart enough to cull the information. Israel is too slowly learning this.
43. #5. Olaf, you speak the truth.
Doria ,   Paris   (03.17.11)
The Israelis and their press act like cry babies because the foreign press is not interested in the news and pictures we want them to see. So!! I say, Israel should try repeatedly again, again and again in every incident showing the injustice is being done to Israel as well as the callousness of the islamo leftist papers. When you cry help one time, help will not come. You have to shout ten times help for someone to hear and come to its senses. You dont build a house with one brick. This should be one of the bricks building the house. So go on shout loud and clear. There's a press war going on. Act to win that and you will .
44. #37
Rachel   (03.17.11)
What is *shocking* or a better word would be *disgusting* is how anyone with a shred of a conscience can in anyway try to rationalize, or in anyway justify the stabbing deaths of an entire family, including slitting the throat of a three month old baby. Like your doing. Why don't you take all your fake Holocaust memorials, and all your phony tears,and shove them. You Europeans additudes towards Jews really haven't changed at all since World War 2.
45. handouts
Alexi   (03.17.11)
the world could care a whit about jews and death. They are about israel because of its military power. And that is the way it is. Stop crying and do what you have to do. And dont't kiss US ass who have more to lose if israel is cut adrift. Check it out. Saudi arabia is still shocked by US big mouth telling kaddafi to go and not backing it up, like what happened to Israel in 67 and even 73 until golda threatened nixon. To lose israel, means the US would have maybe england and some of nato as allies and not much else. Arab regimes and turkey are totally unreliable.
46. My Apologies To South Africa . I Meant The South Africa ...
World Citizen ,   the world   (03.17.11)
of the 1960s,70s, and 80s. Present day South Africans should be proud that it society has moved away from apartheid and is addressing the wrongs of the past. The civilized world wishes it could say the same for Israel but they haven't even started.
47. on an ordinary day we are alone & we know that...
Emily Lyons ,   Jerusalem   (03.17.11)
so why was it that we expected to have a different reaction on a day when Japan's Nuclear energy was in meltdown. Please do explain to me how millions of Japanese suffering from the aftershocks of: an earthquake, a sunami AND the beginning of a nuclear meltdown should be outweighed by the terrorist murder of one family? I will add that I am sorry for the loss of this family but: Ketzat Histaklu'ut Proportzianali! (a bit of proportional reflection), 1. they aren't the first ever victiims of Arab terror there have been thousands of Israelis, Arabs, Druze, Circassians, Christians and foreign workers murdered by Arab terrorist since 1948 (there were before as well but I am just going from the establishment of the State). 2. What makes this terrorist attack more gruesome or sad than others. Hate to say it - Nothing absolutely nothing! Not even the fact that a baby was murdered did we all forget Shalhevet Paz she was under a year when she was murdered by Arab terrorists in Hebron. What we all: the government, the media and the citizens of the State of Israel should be asking is this: What purpose did it serve P.M. Mr. Netanyahu's government to a. have the debate to publish the photos or not and b. to publish them? In other words I do believe that any thinking citizen of the State whether right wing or left wing feels M-A-N-I-P-U-L-A-T-E-D by P.M. Mr. Netanyahu's government!
48. Palestinians pay tens of million$ for this media victory
Brian ,   Judean Peoples Front   (03.17.11)
Ever wonder why the Palestinians pay tens of millions of dollars to fly their lobbyists all over the world? Take the good looking soundbyte Dianna Buttu for example. She probably spends more time on airplanes than in her adopted home of Ramallah (she's born and raised in Canada). Buttu hits dozens of new locations every month all over the world to spread Palestinian propaganda like "kassam rockets have no warheads" and similar lies. She's pretty. She's eloquent. And she makes a lot of money (and probably a platinum air miles card and free access to airport VIP lounges) by lying to audiences from Australia to Europe. It's not apathy, it's the Palestinian media machine in full throttle making sure that the Palestinians are on the front page when Israel can be blamed. It costs them a lot of well spent money to make sure nobody carries the story of Palestinian terrorist sticking knives into Jewish babies. You can bet Dianna Buttu will never mention that fact in any of her talks.
49. Zev #42 a question:
bereaved leftist   (03.17.11)
Now right now please do give me the following numbers: 1. how many leftists civilians were murdered by Arab terrorists? 2. how many right wing civilians were murdered by Arab terrorists? Those two questions are about as stupid as your comments because everyone knows that the only numbers available are Israelis murdered by Arab terrorists. Let me tell you though there are enough of us bereaved as a result of Arab terrorism leftists to tell you that: "Look here now we know the facts, we live with bereavement everyday" So you know what Zev, do me a personal favor think before you write your stupid comments!
50. And to make it worse the BBC holds us all to ransom ...
Lee ,   Manchester UK   (03.17.11)
for every household has to pay a licence for this evil nazism to tune of nearly a £150 a year. The BBC is the most offensive in my view, indifference to the depraved cold-blooded murders of infants Jewish children is tantamount to anti-Semitism, i complained nearly a week ago and i still haven't had any kind of reply. I am sickened, enraged and deeply ashamed of my British heritage - we have transmogrefied into open nazis - our en masse downfall is inevitable. We are with you Israel always and forever. Love will prevail!
51. #46: Mandela never killed a baby
Eitan ,   Chicago   (03.17.11)
Thanks for reminding us that a border fence between two political entities = apartheid, I still lack the philosophical flexibility to understand how your convoluted hypocrisy doesn't make you suffer a stroke.
52. #39: If you're a Zionist, prove it
Eitan ,   Chicago   (03.17.11)
...By leaving Arlington and settling in Israel. Maybe your perspective will change.
53. ISRAEL DOES NOT CARE , SO WHY
LAWRENCE ,   SAFED ISRAEL   (03.17.11)
Should others care ?? Nothinyahu made a cheesy speech with crocodile tears and empty meaningless words ,Barak claimed his blood boiled but demonizes settlers.The nations have a nuclear meltdown in Japan to worry about.If the Israeli government had retaliated hard ,this would have won the worlds' respect and they would have more sympathy for the poor victims of Itamar. Israeli public Relations must be the worst in the world ,fancy deciding to use hard-pressed El-Al stewardesses to be "goodwill ambassadors" .What a joke.
54. *21 Yaawqove. Thanks i have signed it.
Lee ,   Manchester UK   (03.17.11)
and will send to others.
55. #52 LMAO @u!! u have the guts 2 rite that from Chgo? teehee!
Menashe ,   Jerusalem   (03.17.11)
56. 28 Harmen
Rachel   (03.17.11)
Well thank you very much for being civil and polite as most of these talkbalks rarely are today. As a Jew, I sadly do believe alot of the antiIsraeli reporting in the European media comes from nothing but good old fashioned antisemitism on the part of the reporters, especially when it comes to the Jewish people living in the West Bank. And I and others have very good reason to believe this. Why? the answer is simple it's because of the double standard the European media portrays Arabs and Jews. You may not realize this,but the Arabs also burn Israeli trees,cars, and almost daily commit acts of vandalism such as throwing rocks and firebombs at Israeli cars,Jews have been seriously injured by this a few years ago an Israeli baby was killed by these stonethrowers. And this is by no means the first time *settlers* have been assaulted in such ways by Arabs,and that's just the tip of the iceberg. The murder of the Fogel family as brutal and cruel as it was is by no means a one time occurence. Other Jews living in the West Bank have also been brutally murdered by Palestinians, just last fall, two Jewish couples,including a woman in her nine month of pregnancy was shot and killed at close range by Palestinians. Several years ago,another pregnant mother, and her four young daughters were murdered in a similiar horrific fashion. You never heard much about this in the European media.Why,maybe because it would undermine their prejudice viewpoint that the Arabs are the poor victims, and the Israelis who just happen to be Jews are the "aggressors". I am sorry you find it so hard to understand why settlers want to live in the West Bank,but the fact is they consider it their land,and the FACT is they are not without historical evidence. Archaeological digs have proven Jewish presence in the area for thousands of years, Ever read a book called the Bible? The history of a nation called Israel? It's all in the Old Testament, or the Torah,and even the New Testament if your a Christian. Where is the evidence that a Palestinian Arab nation ever existed? Other than the claims of the people who call themselves Palestinian Arabs. Jews have lived in this land for thousands of years,in contrast to the Arabs the majority of whom probably have lived there since the Islamic Mohammedan invaders came in the 6th century. Why should the Arabs have more of a right to the land especially considering the fact that Israelis "Jews" have been on the land much longer, and even won the West Bank in a defensive war? And I am sorry,but I do not buy for one second that the reason the media outlet choose not to shock their readers with "gruesome" photos was because of a more *cultural* approach to shocking events. If this was an Arab family,who had been killed by an Israel,I believe it would have been all over the European newspapers,even on the same parr with the Japanese earthquake. During the last war in Gaza,the European press was replete with photos of little dead Arab children who died in that war. And last of all,sorry if I and other talkbackers sound hostile,but it's hard not to be outraged at some of the comments by people who somehow seem to rationalize the brutal murder of parents and their small children.
57. #47
Rachel   (03.17.11)
I basically agree.I don't think anyone expected the horrific murder of this family to take precedence in the media,in light of the horrible disaster in Japan. I think most Jews and Israelis would agree. It's true this terrorist attack was no more tragic than others,but as horrific and cruel as the suicide bombings,and even shooting attacks such as the one you mentioned were where Jewish children were targetted. It's just the idea that someone could stand above a baby in a crib and plunge a knife into her that just horrifies me and other people, there just seems something so especially evil and satanic about these murders.
58. addd@mai'cpm
jon ,   UK   (03.17.11)
So in answer to the Italian journalist the killing of children by Israel is and act of self defense.. Nobody but nobody in Europe buys this. Israel not only adopts this argument but gives us, they were used as human shields,it did o happen, its pallywood, the photos have been doctored etc. we are talking about hundreds of Palestinian and Lebanese children that have been consigned to zero in Israeli minds . Horrible as this tragedy was to elevate this about the countless children blown away without a thought by Israel has been another PR disaster for Israel
59. Still the right thing to do... now....
PTY ,   Israel   (03.17.11)
we have to explain and keep explaining that the "settlements" are NOT illegal. and then do like the muslims. Keep telling the story until people get it.
60. Response to no. 17 The "indigenous natives" are Jews!
Gila ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (03.17.11)
Your concepts of what is really happening are incredible beyond belief. The indigenous natives of Israel, which includes Judea and Samaria (what is referred to by some as the "West Bank") are Jews. Please learn some real history. Most "Palestinian" Arabs are descendants of recent immigrants with no prior attachment to this land. The very earliest Arabs invaded in the 7th century, well over 2000 years AFTER the Jewish people were living in this land. The only distinct nation state that has existed here is that of the Jewish people, and communities of Jews have continued to live in their land for thousands of years despite massive persecution, murder and forced exile, including in the so-called "West Bank". To call Israel an apartheid state is frankly slander. All citizens, including Arabs, Jews and anyone else, have more democratic rights here than in any country in the Middle East. If you want to start talking about "apartheid" states I suggest you try looking at the appalling human rights records of countries such as Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, Libya.....and many others besides.
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