Opinion
The art of disproportion
Avi Yesawich
Published: 09.04.11, 16:40
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31. When you declare war on entire state.
Vladimir ,   Ashkelon/Israel   (04.09.11)
When two fighting boxers are in same physical shape, the fight last until total exhaustion of both. When one boxer is in significally better shape, the fight will end quickly. So are the armies - when two sides are at the same level, the war last until all sides nearly eliminated each other, while devastation and death toll are huge on each side. Just like it was in first world war. Otherwise, when one of sides has overwhelming superiority, war ends quickly wether with surrender or elimination of enemy forces. Just like it was in Yugoslavian operation of NATOF or in first Gulf War of USA. From the begining of human history the main purpose of any army, in any place on Earth, was to totally outmarch the enemy army (just remember a military race during the cold-war), to achieve an disproportionaly overwhelming force on battlefield. Ensuring with disproportion a victory by most efficient method, that is: to kill as many enemy solders as possible, while avoiding own casualties as much as possible. And this should be remembered by everyone who goes on war. So the bottom line: When you declare a war on entire state, be ready to fight with its entire army.
32. 24
seth bullock ,   USA   (04.09.11)
Are you saying the Israelis need to wait for the Arabs to have modern weapons before they respond? Is that how you fought as a Marine? You and your brothers at arms never shot at people who had worse weapons? You never called in an airstrike on people who didn't have that option? Never used night-vision on people who didn't have them? You seem to make the writer's whole point. Israel has every right to be much more brutal with Gaza (a place where the 'civilians' elected a group with a constitution that denies Israel's right to exist). The fact Israel hasn't been so brutal testifies to Israel's overall moralism. This doesn't mean they're perfect, but a sane world would accept Israel's mistakes over the Arab's deliberate targeting of civs any day of the week and twice on Sabbath. But we don't live in a sane world. Furthermore, there are no refugees, never have been. Arabs were invited to stay in Israel. They left to get out of the way of 6 Arab armies. They lost. Boo hoo. Suck it up. They have "perspective." They know the Arabs will never stop their murderous goals. Neither should the Israelis stop in fighting back.
33. A PERSONAL INVITATION
BEN JABO ,   ISRAEL   (04.09.11)
Split & Seamongrel Get your sorry carcasses over here & do something about it, instead of playing pocket pool with yourselves Talk is cheap and you nerds aren't spending a cent !!
34. #24 JEFF - The fake ex-marine
BEN JABO ,   ISRAEL   (04.09.11)
What would you know about war, you've never been in one Even a pretender, such as yourself, would knwo that single bullet is capable of killing someone, those Kassams contain an average of 10KG of HE It's plain for all to see, you're just a talker with no experience You never did say what your MOS was, didn't you have one ? Or, maybe you were too busy eluding military service to bother getting one ?
35. To: No. 15
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (04.09.11)
When Israel pulled out of Gaza, it left intact hydroponic farms and greenhouses, not to mention apartment buildings, hospitals, fire houses and stores. The first thing Hamas did was blow up the greenhouses and hydroponic farms, and built terrorist training centers. You have no idea what you are talking about. Best would be for you to shut up.
36. To: No. 8
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (04.09.11)
Care to discourse upon the disproportionate number of civilian deaths to NATO casualties in Iraq, Afghanistan and Waziristan? Didn't think so ....
37. To: No. 18
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (04.09.11)
Do you really believe your own drivel? "Resistance fighters?" Most of the rest of the world calls them what they are: terrorists. Kalashnikovs? Is that your term-du-jour for Grad missiles and anti-tank weapons?
38. fool # 24
Jrodstein ,   Basalt, Colorado   (04.09.11)
if some fool is firing at you and your kids with muskets and you have a rocket to protect your kids you use it! doesn't take a genus to figure it out. You are making it justified to attack a school bus simply by your hate for Jews from your twisted perspective. I find it amusing that you are dumb enough to not see the palestinians bring what you say "sheer terror on palestinians" is self inflicted by their own fanatic actions. I was a Major in the marines and would have been proud to served in the I.D.F.
39. proportionate response
sean ,   dallas, usa   (04.09.11)
right on, Avi!
40. Well said
Stumps   (04.09.11)
All valid points that the author brings up here. To paraphrase Tony Blair, never impose rules on Israel that you would never dream of placing on your own country's government.
41. #24 the marine "expert" on war
Jason ,   USA   (04.09.11)
And who was responsible for the first 5 wars of survival by the arab nations against israel? where does the author compare the military power of the two powers? i like how you talk about how the palestinians attack with muskets and not laser-guided kornet missles against school buses. plus the author doesn't even compare their military powers in the article. If hamas had the weapons, they would use them. and if israel was the weaker power, the 2nd holocaust would have probably already occurred. ahh yes, i remember, your country occupies iraq, afghanistan and is involved in libya and has caused hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths. are they just trying out their high-powered weaponry there, too? i guess you choose to ignore the declarations (and multiple failed attempts) of the complete destruction of israel and death to jews in the arab world. that doesn't exist either, apparently. we'll also disregard the deliberate attacks on civilians and suicide bombings perpetrated by Hamas before the Gaza blockade. im sure you're country would show maximum restraint if rockets started falling on american cities from mexico. give me a break. israel may have the power militarily, but to say they perpetuate the conflict is laughable.
42. Casualties, #14
Scott Tank ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (04.09.11)
Citing casualties in Cast Lead is irrelevant. Proportionality has nothing to do with an "eye for an eye" concept. Our casualty figures do not have to match those of the enemy. War is a brutal endeavor, where smashing the enemy's will and ability to fight are the goals. Nowhere in international law does it state one side must fight proportionally. It appears in fact that Israel's proportion was not large enough, because Hamas continues to launch rockets 2 years later.
43. Rules of War
Edward ,   Savannah, USA   (04.09.11)
GREAT ARTICLE...but unfortunately, it isn't going to be implemented as long as Israel has "politicians" and NOT LEADERS running its government. I don't know what it is going to take to make the change. And the longer Israel does not make this change in leadership, the more school busses will be targeted, the more civilians will be killed, all in the name of "restraint"!!! I hope some visionary with some backbone will step forth soon. The next schoolbus to be hit with an anti-tank missle might be full of kids.
44. So twisted I don't know where to begin
peacelover ,   Washington, USA   (04.09.11)
First, we have a conflict resolution student urging violence and war, which hopefully means he will fail his courses miserably; Second, we have someone explicitly calling for war crimes. Mr. Yesawich should be aware that there is a principal in international law that the use of force is legitimate ONLY WHEN IT IS PROPORTIONATE. Therefore, by definition, Mr. Yesawich is encouraging Israel to commit war crimes. Utterly despicable on so many levels it makes my head spin. Is this really how far Israeli morality has plunged?
45. #44 loving peace
israeli ,   metula   (04.09.11)
perhaps israel should do nothing and allow the arabs to slaughter us. yes, a 2nd holocaust sounds mighty peaceful. he is saying we should defend our citizens you putz.
46. To the "peacelover" #44
Max ,   Jerusalem   (04.09.11)
It's obvious you don't know much about military and international law. Name a war where the response was proportionate, in your definition of the term. You apparently want peace for the Palestinians, but not Israelis. "peace lovers" like yourself scare me.
47. WHAT AN LOSING IDEOLOGY ISRAEL BEHAVES ACCORDING !.
Orao. ,   Srbia.   (04.09.11)
STOP MAKE EXCUSES FOR YOUSELF AND EXTERMINATE ALL MILITANTS OF GAZA. THEN THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED AND THE WORLD COMUNITY HAS NOTHING MORE TO TALK ABOUT EITHER. Orao. Srbia.
48. To #17
Edward ,   Savannah, USA   (04.09.11)
I don't know where you got your figures from but the "unofficial" tally of civilian deaths just in Iraq alone at THIS time is 1 MILLION civilians and counting. And within 20 years, ALL of Iraq will be killed off from the use of Depleted Uranium, which the U.S. signed a Treaty with a lot of other nations BANNING the use of it because of its effects. The use of D.U. is a WAR CRIME against Humanity, not to mention a major violation of an international arms treaty, but I just don't see anyone draaging Papa Bush, Bush Jr. and Obomanation before the World Court for mass murder. I just can't figure that one out!!! I've seen pictures of the babies born to U.S. troops that served in Iraq and they are horrifying!!! And this stuff is being used in Afghanistan too, so withing 20 years, that place will be uninhabited. We have mass murderers running our governments but Israel is the only one singled out for condemnation of any kind!!!
49. well .. it won't be just rockets
wmd   (04.09.11)
50. Don't Be Hard on Israelis
astounded ,   tel aviv   (04.09.11)
The Israelis and US zionists calling for more bloodshed shouldn't be blamed for their innocence concerning conflict. Suffering no casualties or destruction, they cannot imagine what real war is like and so it all seems like a game to them. If ever Israelis were genuinely affected by war, they would not scream so loudly for its escalation. As long as it is only Gazan children dying, they couldn't care less. OK, BEN JABO , ISRAEL , bring on the rabid ad-hominum attacks...it's sad, really. Israel could have worked out. They just had too much money poured over them and lost touch with reality.
51. well .. it won't be just rockets
wmd   (04.09.11)
52. Yes, OK, So what ?
Yossef   (04.09.11)
53. not a trurer word has been wriiten. fire barak and lets do
ralph   (04.09.11)
what needs to be done. enough of listening to the immoral, unresponsive world
54.  I doubt anyone would argue that Russia’s actions in Chechny
split ,   US   (04.09.11)
Russia’s actions in Chechnya were condemned by civilised nations (including US) despite the fact that Chechnya was a part of Russia for centuries with large numbers of ethnic Russians living there for generations. Israelis didn't join the protest but pretend to be one of them. Why do you expect to be excluded from condemnation for what you're doing to Palestinians.
55. #50
Yaakov ,   Rishon LeTzion   (04.09.11)
Please spend one day and Sderot, and talk to the residents there and see what their opinion is. When rockets begin to rain down on Tel Aviv, I can assure you the residents there will be singing a different tune, and it won't be "negotiate with Hamas, masters of logic, reason and peace." Sorry, but seven major wars and two intifadas have made us a bit cynical. Oh wait, we don't know the effects and devasation of war, that's right. We'll just step back and let the Palestinians have their way with us, that should satisfy individuals like yourself. Perhaps that type of bloodshed would be acceptable for you.
56. astounded
Sarah ,   Jerusalem Israel   (04.09.11)
Why don't you post your real city, instead of pretending to be Israeli? If you lived here, you would know the casualties, know what being bombarded by rockets is like, know the death toll here, the children living in bunkers, the terror attacks on city streets. We know EXACTLY what the evil of war brings, since we've been under siege by Arab states or their proxy mercenaries for decades. You sit smugly on the sidelines and make stupid remarks about a situation you know nothing about. It's not your children on buses being shot at, terrorist-lover.
57. Background
javier ,   paris   (04.09.11)
Decades of occupation Decades of stolen land Decades of abuse, torture, killings by Israel Decades of settlers Decades prohibiting freedom of movement Decades preventing Palestinians from being treated fairly (either as full-right citizens of Israel or as ful-right citizens of a state) Given this background, I would say that Hamas is doing what UK did to Germany after the brutal agression of the Naziu troops: indiscrimnate bombing, as pointed out by this 'academician'. It just demonstrates that this person will be a good propagandist for Israel, as he carefully ignores background of the situation.
58. They are not clueless
Arie ,   BaGolan   (04.09.11)
They fully object to any act of Israeli self-defense. Whether Soros in the WHite House, or the Brits, or the writers at Haaretz, the simple concept of a Jew defending himself is anathema and should be denounced
59. The art of disproportion
Augusto ,   Portugal   (04.09.11)
I read that it is a parking lot. The best idea for everyone who is not for Israel.
60. That is a REAL war....
aline silverman ,   israel   (04.09.11)
...mr astounded,,,,Living in Tel Aviv , you might not feel it....What don't you move to the south????
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