Jewish Scene
Har Bracha residents: Christians out!
Tzofia Hirschfeld
Published: 01.12.11, 14:36
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61. #23 sam Agreed
solomon ,   bklyn   (12.02.11)
As I'm sure would many of the Great Rabbis of the past (Rambam, etc). Many of the rabbis of the present (but not all) seem small by comparison.
62. #1 gayle et al
solomon ,   bklyn   (12.02.11)
"What happens when a Jew falls in love with one of these volunteers? " It is their own business.
63. #45 ariel, #48 geula
solomon ,   bklyn   (12.02.11)
Of which "halacha" do you speak? Of whose interpretation? Any time anyone needs 'backup' they use the word halacha as a blanket justification (just as Israel-bashers still talk of the Flotilla being boarded in "international waters" as "against international law".) And you can't love HaShem by hating everyone else.
64. #23 sam Agreed
solomon ,   bklyn   (12.02.11)
As I'm sure would many of the Great Rabbis of the past (Rambam, etc). Many of the rabbis of the present (but not all) seem small by comparison.
65. #13, #25, #26 john Kol HaKavod
solomon ,   bklyn   (12.02.11)
You represent what for us is the 'new Christian', the one many posters are not familiar with. Your patience and measured responses to the hate (yes, hate) and fear evident in many of the posts is commendable. I pray you can keep your calm demeanor and understanding of the deep mistrust of Christianity that is surfacing in these posts. There are still Christians who want nothing better than to convert Jews. (Many Moslems don't want to convert us as much as kill us.) But this 'other' type, your type, is still new and unknown to many. If the shoe was on the other foot, we would be crying “anti-semitism”. And the shoe has been on the other foot for generations. It will take time for us to return to our usual, customary openness to the world.
66. John from Alaska, you are a noble man. Thank you.
Michael ,   California, USA   (12.02.11)
67. Oh, ye of little faith...
Nogodnik   (12.03.11)
These anti-gentilic fear-mongers must have very little confidence in their own faith to be so scared of a bunch of starry-eyed happy-clappers.
68. To #56, Josh with a great idea
John ,   Alaska   (12.03.11)
I would say that you are making an assumption. Or perhaps not, now that I think about it. "Show the Evangelicals you know your stuff and they will leave you alone ... " This is probably true. If there is an argument, usually the better argument "wins". But if instead of demonstrating a command of the Scriptures, you actually share truth with your new neighbors, they may do quite the opposite. Logically, people who respect truth, and people who respect Scripture of necessity respect truth, would want to learn more truth once encountering the same. So my advice is your advice, but with the addition that when you share what you know, do so with the expectation that Ha'Shem will enlighten your listeners. Perhaps you could even ask Him to do so. What is the harm in that? (okay - i see my name way too much - I won't post again to this thread unless someone asks me a question) :)
69. American Jews and the chip on their shoulder
Hembor   (12.03.11)
They resent evangelicals/born agains for some reason, a resentment not shared by native Israelis who are secure in their own identity.
70. Christians out
Kirk ,   Ypsilanti, MI   (12.03.11)
If the Evangelical Christians believe Jews are God's chosen people and want to help the Jews so badly, why don't they convert to Judaism? It seems bizarrely patronizing to put a group of people up on a pedestal who are trying to live by simple principles of faith and community and at the same time not believe that this form of faith and community could work for them too. It feels meddlesome. I would rather live with a Muslim than with a meddlesome Christian. The notion that a sudden epiphany of belief in an abstract concept to ensure one's passage into heaven seems like religious snake oil. Those who are so effortlessly converted could just as easily be convinced that Jews are a plague. Once a fond admirer, then suddenly anti Semitic, as cultures begin to clash. The fear is real and palpable. On the other hand, living with people of different beliefs is good practice and a good test of one's faith. It is possible to live in a multicultural setting without losing your individual beliefs and practices. Wanting to live in isolation is the kind of behavior that is rewarded harshly by this world. In the case of the Jews it breeds Antisemitism. If I were worried about being persecuted because of beliefs and practices, the last thing I would do is isolate myself in a monotheistic community or even a nation. With today's technology of the internet, it is impossible to live in cultural isolation anyway. If we make something forbidden and we isolate ourselves, the reward will be that the world will regard us as suspicious and will persecute us, and our children will abandon us to explore the world out there that they have been told is wrong, if for no other reason than to see for themselves. Creatures and creeds must evolve to survive. Living in isolation guarantees that we won't.
71. Owning the Land
Pc User ,   Squan, NJ, USA   (12.03.11)
Perhaps those folks are afraid that the Christians will get the notion in their Heads that the Palestine region belongs to them also, and stay.
72. #48 To complete your thought
Mike ,   Miami, USA   (12.03.11)
We are against you because Hashem is against you. Butt keep the money flowing, Hashem loves money so we do too.
73. Is there ANYONE ANYWHERE?
Brian ,   Tampa FL USA   (12.03.11)
Is there ANYONE ANYWHERE THE JEWS aren't fighting with?
74. Democracy?
Emery   (12.03.11)
Intolerant Jews? Who would have thought it possible.
75. indeed an oxymoron
Christian ,   La Mesa, USA   (12.03.11)
I write as a theologically education, liberal (i.e. NOT "evangelical") Christian. The Christian group under discussion in this article is NOT a friend of Zionism, in the sense that they are concerned about the Jewish people for the sake of the Jewish people. Their twisted interpretation of the Scriptures holds that once the Jewish people have all returned to Israel,, and the nation extends to its maximum historical borders, Jesus will return to establish his earthly reign. Then all Jews will have to make the decision either to become Christians or to choose hell. I am a firm believer in G-d, and am also a firm believer that all religious language is metaphorical, and thus, tries to describe the Ineffable One. That is most certainly NOT a view embraced by "evangelical" Christians. They have built a bizarre end of the world theology on a MISREADING of the sacred Scriptures. I am against any sort of discrimination, but these evangelicals, while truly sincere in that they don't wish to "convert" the Jewish people of this town, in the end believe that by helping Israel they are hastening the return of Jesus.
76. You are right!
Barbara ,   Bern, Switzerland   (12.03.11)
Thank you for your comment Jerry. I feel same and I am worrying to let my son on the 4th coming on holiday to Israel. Suppose he will be held back in Ben Gurion already when he enteres, just for bit dark skin from his indian father and his name that might suggest he is muslim. But we are Swiss Buddhists and peaceful people. My life partner is Israeli and we are a happy loving family, also due to tolerance. Stop prejudices and hatred. Stop being narrow minded. Imagine we would be so antisemitic and full of chuzpe.... stop now. Time for peace. Please. Here in Switzerland we have to be tolerant. E.g. at the public school are kids of over 30 nationas and different religions. Every third Swiss woman is married with a foreigner. If not every one tries, it doesn't work. SHALOM to the world.
77. #6 coversion?
Rachel   (12.03.11)
how do YOU know this? From personal experience, or are you just repeating what you heard? Let me tell you: this is exactly what happened to the Jews in the past: rumors, and it got worse from there. Now it seems there is payback time for anyone who is NOT Jewish? Congratulations, we go back to the Dark Ages..
78. #67 nogodnik
solomon ,   bklyn   (12.03.11)
These "anti-gentile fear mongerers" also know history. That Jews were killed because of other gentiles who professed to be religious. A hard thought to shake when this has occured throughout history. A phrase often heard has been “we’ve had enough of Christian ‘love’, thank you.” This doesn’t seem to be the case here. But it is in the back of one’s mind.
79. #69 hembor
solomon ,   bklyn   (12.03.11)
Read these previous posts. Many are from Israelis who do not seem so secure in their identity. And where do you get a feeling of resentment from this article? And where do you read that everyone complaining is American?
80. #70 kirk - Very well put. Thanks.
solomon ,   bklyn   (12.03.11)
81. It's just not right!!
Jessie Cohen ,   From a Settlement   (12.03.11)
It is not right when people move to a specific settlement where they want to be close to a certain Rabbi, live with a certain type of population, purchase homes and then find out that they are living amongst gentiles. I have absolutely no problem with the Christians who love the Jews and Israel, but I don't think it's fair to make people live with them if they don't want to! Especially if they have put their life savings into their homes and have nowhere else to move to. In my opinion, the settlement should take a vote of all of the residents and if the majority want the Christians to leave, that vote should be RESPECTED!! The Christians can always find another place to live in a large city nearby, as there are many non-Jews living in Israel. I think the Rabbi will be very sorry if a Jewish resident wants to marry one of these gentile volunteers. But by then, it may be too late. Think about this!!!
82. Racist
Phil chips ,   vancouver canada   (12.03.11)
For all those who fight against anti semitism Jews not wanting to associate with evangelicals is no different. to antisemitism, it is signs of hate. IF YOU ARE STRONG IN YOUR FAITH YOU HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR THEY WILL NOT CONVERT YOU. As jews we try to be the best jew, respect their right to be the best christian. Be happy they are not trying to destroy Israel like the rest of the world. It is stories like these that make people hate jews more.
83. Reminds me of a famous quote:
Doug ,   U.S.   (12.03.11)
"There's a sucker born every minute" P.T. Barnum
84. to #12 from har Brachah
Ayelet HaShachar ,   Maale Adummim   (12.03.11)
Jackie, I hope that I have the honor to meet you some day. You are an inspiration to me and give me hope in the Torah and the Jewish people. I have been feeling so discouraged lately that we are not living the path of geulah but shrinking into an abyss of hating each other in addtition to hating the nations of the world--even when they try to reach out to us.Knowing that it is a complicated topic in such a small community, I hope that the kehilla can work this out b'shalom and in a way that is a kiddush Hashem and a light to the geulah. I was greatly inspired by Rabbi Melamed's ruling. It makes me think of Avraham Avinu and Sarah with their tents open. Strength to you and the brave toshavim in Shomrom haTzafon!
85. #2 Incorrect to assume...
Dawn ,   Israel   (12.03.11)
that Christianity's raison d'etre is conversion of THE JEWS. While much of Christendom holds this way, there is another view that recognizes the choseness of the Jewish people and the path of Torah observance to "salvation." I know because I am a convert to Judaism (yes, frum) and my step-father is one of those Christian pastors that teaches that Jews have their own path that they MUST follow (Read: Torah). Because of thousands of years of persecution and forced conversions, Christendom still has a lot to do tshuvah for, but the point is that the positive seeds are there and coming to fruition among some Protestants and Roman Catholics. We need to be knowledgeable enough to understand the differences and judge people as individuals and not stereotypes. People are coming to the knowledge of G-d just as our own prophecies said that they would. We aren't there yet, but we shouldn't blow people off so readily.
86. NO MORE JUICE!
paul ,   pace city   (12.04.11)
NO MORE JUICE!
87. Israel is our's also
Margaret ,   Bible belt   (12.03.11)
What is the problem we Christians also inherited this land thru Jesus Christ our Savior. Israel is just as much ours as the Jewish people of whom we love very much.
88. Biggest butt kisser of all times, its just me
Daniel ,   Israel   (12.04.11)
#65,,,Solomon of bklyn, I have no respect for anyone who put himself second to his own existence, kind of psychotic to me, this man kisses so much Jew butt I'd be personally afraid of his mental stability or some hidden agenda that even he is not aware of, some kind of sick,,,, and I'm a Jew.
89. Aliyah
(12.04.11)
I made aliyah years ago and live in a religious settlement in order to be with other Jews and have my kids marry other Jews. If I had wanted to live with non-Jews, I would have stayed in the Galut. These people may be very nice etc, but I understand the people in Har Bracha that prefer not to have them there.
90. christians out
Dov ,   chilliwack canada   (12.04.11)
i wanted to respond to jerry diamond's comment. I was surprised at how clear and direct his tone was and i really appreciated it. The argument is straightforward. If they're willing to do business and live honestly then they will be accepted into the larger community. There should be no concern. Especially in this case because the Evangelical Christians are a fundamental part of US politics. Without their support, Israel would lose priority in the US. To advocate their expulsion is suicide in another form. This brings to my greater point. Why are people that call for common sense in Israel's foreign and domestic policy. These extremists within will prove to be the real existential threat unless the Jewish people let cooler heads prevail .
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