Jewish Scene
'Religion now more dangerous than Arabs'
Uri Misgav
Published: 11.12.11, 19:00
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
74 Talkbacks for this article
1. Nauseating article
Yoni ,   Tel aviv   (12.11.11)
This article makes me want to throw up. Here you have a ranting "rabbi" against the entire establishment without a nice word to say about anyone only complaints. He clearly doesn't follow Halacha and cares only about creating a "new Jew". Christianity is a new Jew. Judaism is an amazing way of life that we need to live up to not reform. This guy clearly strayed from his roots and feels badly so he is all about bashing others now. Shame
2. The extremist right wing is dividing the country!
David ,   Karmiel, Israel   (12.11.11)
Laws like those against the Mosques' PA systems or MK Anastassia Michaeli have a strong Stalinist tilt! She maintains that is in the interest of public health and the environment. One might ask her if her proposal is to safeguard public health would she agree with those in Europe who want circumcision (Brit Milah) to be illegal as it is "mutilation"? I am sure the MK Michaeli would call that racist just as her proposed law is!
3. 80 is enough
Tzvi ,   Jerusalem   (12.11.11)
He should do Teshuva before he dies. If he is not interested in joining with the Jewish People and adhering to the tenets of the Torah then he's better off dead. Am Yisrael Chai ViKayam
4. If you're a liberal you'll get lots of space on the ynet
Barry   (12.11.11)
a lot of bla bla bla.... the confusion of the 20th century somewhat mitigated by torah and halachah, but not good enough.
5. Pathetic. Full of guilt and rationalizations but...
shadoil ,   Jerusalem   (12.11.11)
not all of it should be thrown out only 90%. He reminds me of Conservadox in the US. Shopping market Judaism. Pick whats comfy for you as you walk down the isle and the rest just leave on the shelve because it does'nt fit into "my" agenda.
6. it apears
shafia ,   jenin   (12.11.11)
that when the history create something ..this that the same something can not creat history or another history than what i wrote as iam not created by history but by the god
7. Strange article from a bright, but strange man
Brian Cohen ,   Judean Peoples Front   (12.11.11)
Hartman is himself a victim of the same myopic view that perpetrates some of the religious-zionist camp. He generalizes. He overstates. He throws out the baby with the bathwater. And yes, it's the same problem on the extreme right where everybody who doesn't agree with the minority is called a "traitor". Hartman fails to look at the other half of the Jewish equation as he obsesses with the dati leumi types. The interviewer asks "Has religious authority become excessive?" In light of Israel's crazy education system (secular schools, religious schools, ultra-religious schools) and the demands that LGBT pride be part of the curriculum - What would Hartman's answer be to the question: "Has secular authority become excessive?"
8. #2 david = idiot!
Joe ,   NY   (12.11.11)
in NY you have many mosques without having loudspeakers blasting 5 times a day. you and the rest of the leftists have given the your country to the muslim enemy. you are the Stalinist Bolshevik enemy that hates everything Jewish.
9. All I hear
Paul ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (12.11.11)
is a disgruntled old man, who dedicated his life to the failed principals of 'Modern Orthodoxy'. In his own words, he praised Rambam for living and contributing to two worlds. True, but Rambam's heart was in one world, the world that R. Hartman and his institution apparently wants all of Jewry to make compromises for. The world of corruption, lies, hatred, and peace with what? There is plenty to complain about with all sectors of the Jewish world, but R. Hartman, never had the solution, and is not a positive influence when it comes to the spiritual needs of the Jewish people.
10. I feel dirty after reading this
Miriam ,   Jerusalem   (12.11.11)
Sounds like this man disdains the mentality of Hasidim, Charidim, Kabbalists, Religious Zionists, Traditional Jews, and people on the Right. But, he associates with Soros's New Israel Fund, sounds like traditional Leftist ideology to me.
11. These commenst are pathetic and nauseating, not the article
Humus King ,   Israel   (12.11.11)
I think the vindictive arrogant comments tend to support what the article is all about. You all need to take a good look at yourselves. This article may be an opportunity for you all to see what orthodox religion has become.
12. to #1
Golan ,   modiin   (12.11.11)
Hassidism is a reformed Judaism (pantheistic and the like) reform Judaism is a reformed Judaism (erasing laws and the like) Orthodoxy is a reformed Judaism (adding to the law against the laws of the Torah not to add) Secular Zionism too wanted to create a "new" Jew. But what is/was the "new" Jew? It was the Jew of old. One that farmed the land, that fought the wars, that stood in line, that lived his life, raised his children, and did his best. Everyone who talks about the "new" Jew is actually talking about the old one, the one before the exile. The one we read about when we open books. And that is what we strive to me. that is not such a bad thing.
13. Much truth in his points
Nehama ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (12.11.11)
I agree with many of his feelings regarding changes in dati Leumi society. I remember how in the 80's issues like singing and covering hair completely were not consuming. I think there is a vacuum and Haredim have influenced heavily in last decades some dati Leumi minds. Those who use logic will not fall to their crazy nonsense. I will never forget reading article from mom to rabbi online where she asks " my son since coming back from one year in Israel does not allow his sister to sing at Shabbat table and we all fight at Shabbat during zemirot time. What should I do?" How horrible that parents can't sing amongst themselves and many poskim say singing among family members is not forbidden but you will always have those who want to be machmir- overly strict and ruin atmosphere and spirit of life. I hope the Jewish nation stoPs bickering over nonsense and deals with serious matters.
14. Bitter Old Man that didnt get his way
RealityCheck4Hartman ,   Jerusalem Israel   (12.11.11)
For years Hartman has been singing the same old tune . Unfortuantely for him and others that have been proposing the death of Religious Zionism over the yearsquite the opposite is true & today in the areas conquered nearly a half century ago ( yes in 6 years Israel will have been settling Judea and Samaria for 50 years!!) and now including Jerusalem areas live more than 600,000 Jews and fast climbing to the million mark and hundreds of thousands of their young people attend their educational institutions .Sad to see a man end his days in such bitterness and his lifetime of attempts to destroy this great movement end in a legacy that will be no more than a footnote in Jewish history not a proud contribution.
15. XTIANITY IS 'NOT THE NEW JEW #1
....DACON9   (12.11.11)
IT IS NOT JEWISH. Mr Hartman wants to create a new jew? TORAH rabbis want to pick up and contintue the traditional 3500 yr old JEW. I just love these people that sound so wonderful until you read the content word by word
16. A moral reletivist
i ,   jerusalem   (12.11.11)
and one the more confused students of Rav Soloveitcik. His hybrid Judaism spawns weeds.
17. Wisdom!
Logic ,   Israel   (12.11.11)
The Rabbi has a lot of interesting commentary here and shame on some of the previous talkbackers for their judgmental and useless comments. Indeed, when any religion gets co-opted by petty politicians and narrow-minded political parties, then all that happens is that the average citizen gets repulsed.
18. Dear R. Hartman:
Israeli 2   (12.11.11)
I used to think like you 40-30-and yes even 20 years ago....but as I got older, I swallowed the bitter pill and admitted that I was wrong. It is ALSO the land that is dear, not only the people because the land was given to us by God and not by people. We should cherrish every inch of it. I have grown older since and when I reach the age of 80, I would certainly be mature enough to realize that in order to find God (not only to seek Him) would be to cherrish his precious gifts to His people....therefore...religious zionism is NOT dead. It is only now beginning to flourish.
19. Sad
Eitan ,   Tel Aviv   (12.11.11)
The comments to this article do nothing but support the overreaching points of this article, that Israeli society and the Israeli nation has lost the critical balance and beauty of Judaism. Beginning in 1948's with Ben Gurion's decision to allow the haredim to control the spirituality of our country created a situation in which extremist mullah-rabbi's control the interpretation and implementation of Judaism. Sadly today, the orthodox rabbi's are creating an intolerant, racist, and inherently exclusionary sect of Judaism and in doing so pushing us incrementally toward the barbarianism of fascist zealotry. It is sad now that rather than deal with the core issues our nation faces, Rabbi's are more concerned with segregating women and making sure the female form, voice, and image is suppressed. Rather than loving our common man, we are fermenting divisions and cleavages. And for the record, as I am certain my comments will incite those opposed to my views to belief I am probably one of the Tel Aviv elites drinking coffee while commenting on those that guarantee my security, I am an ex-soldier of an IDF Combat unit who has spent years defending Israel's security. Israel must remain a Jewish nation with a stable Jewish Identity. However, this identity must be moderated, modernized, and benchmarked against the needs for an open, inclusive, and progressive society. The single minded draconian and discriminatory practices of Rabbi's must not be permitted.
20.  (LOSHON HARA).Every Jew has a mission
Roland Seener ,   London England   (12.11.11)
21. beautiful
tamar ,   israek   (12.11.11)
we need more people like him
22. BRAVO HARTMAN!!
Finausis ,   Israel   (12.11.11)
Finally a man of G-d who has his eyes open and sees where we are heading!!There are MANY of us who share your pain and sees what is really going on in the Land, and the behaviour of our people. It's alarming how far we have wondered of the path, but not many can see it!!.
23. Made in USA : Another cranky american
Norbus ,   Jerusalem   (12.11.11)
Must be the water goes to their heads, or G-d talks to them, Shneerson, Kahane, this guy, Nutters
24. finally a sane voice in the wilderness
Rachel   (12.11.11)
finally- a sane voice in the wilderness of extremists and weak men...to me is a REAL JEW- the women bashers and fanatics are no better than the muslim mullahs................
25. A visionary
Observant Jew   (12.11.11)
A visionary who sees the danger of the Haredi cult to Judaism
26. HARTMAN IS A SMART MAN
LAWRENCE ,   SAFED ISRAEL   (12.11.11)
The concepr of "loving your neighbour as you love yourself " has gone down the drain here.It is all " this is forbidden , that is forbidden.Heaveb forbid one should look at a woman ,or hear a woman sing.All fucked up nonsense which shames the real concept of judaism ,to be a decent and healthy human being .Not to be a violent narrow-mionded sex maniac .
27. Religious Zionism Dead? Wow!
Awakening ,   The Moon   (12.11.11)
Good morning David Hartman, this is evident for close to twenty years - where have you been? Do you read sociological studies on Israeli society?
28. How sad...
Chaya ,   Tel Aviv   (12.11.11)
How sad and unfortunate that most of the talkbacks that I have read so far have decided that they know who Rabbi Hartmann is and they have put him into some little 'left-wing' box. How pitiful. If only Judaism would be practiced the way this Rabbi represents it. Halachically Jewish but humanistic at its core...because this is the way HaShem wants it!
29. TRIVIAL THINGS
LAWRENCE ,   SAFED ISRAEL   (12.11.11)
So true ,as if Hashem cares less whether I put my right shoe on first or the left shoe. True Torah has got lost amongst all the bullshit trivia.
30. Post Holocaust
Zivron   (12.11.11)
The existence of the jews in israel is for the safe sanctuary in the ancient land and the religious are divided . The Haredim are there for Pikuach nefesh the religious zionists are stealing the gains of the secular-traditional victory of the six day war and distorting them. We are not taking of pagans although the islamists are mixed with the ghenkis khan genes from the invasions centuries ago but a religion that is for monotheism and and acceptance of the laws of noah plus kashrut and aspects in the ten commandments .
Next talkbacks
Back to article