A Yeshiva that doesn't teach the core curriculum should indeed be closed (AT ONCE!), because after these Haredim leave school without the skills to survive in the world we actually live in, I have to pay to support their 12 children. Would assume that if they actually learn something of use in their Yeshivot, many will not join the rabid spitting, cursing, anti-female, welfare sub-culture that has sprung up amongst the Haredim. Maybe they will contribute something to society...

Is not the Arab Israeli conflict .. it is the conflict that exists between our Jewish brethren. the left vs the right, Haredim vs Secular. it is such a shames that there seems to be such divide within our nation. Haredim should love and respect al Jews irrespective of level of observance and the Secular should learn to understand and appreciate the Haredim's way of life as long as they are not imposing it on other people. Not all life principles need be based on western principles. If we could just master the so Important principle. LOVE YOUR BROTHER AS YOU WOULD YOURSELF, as number #12 put our troubles with our enemies would simply melt away

Yes, that's correct, they indeed have nothing in common with the rest of the Jews living in Israel.

"More than the supporter does for the learner, the learner does for the supporter. For the supporter, for a few pennies, gains a portion of eternity from the learner's Torah. The biggest punishment for the supporter would be if the Yeshivot would stop accepting his donations." Chofetz Chaim ZT"L Pray HaShem intervenes because thes whole situation is spinning out of control...ridiculous!

I am sorry but it is dangerous and inexcusable to be tolerant of intolerance for the sake of being liberal. Haredi society glorifies segregation, homophobia, poverty, bad education, and discrimination. You say that we should just leave them alone, but what will happen in 20 years when they are 30% of the population? How can we ignore 30% of our kids not having a basic education? That may be okay for Iranians, Pakistanis and Saudi Arabians. But it is not ok for a first world country like Israel.

You are far too shy and reserved dear author! You should be more assertive and name names "as simple as that"! The media, whose sizeable chunk this aggressive inciting discord-seeking paper and its commercial TV satellite consis of, is the main culprit! It's full of deeply hypocritical radicals and not rarely, even extremists. I am ttoally disgusted by them - not the haredim.

it is a dancer like me and you but the sin when the dancer be a devil

There are things about which you and I disagree about - and that's a fairly natural and predictable situation. And I don't go to extremes, or start protests, or speak about depriving vast swathes of the population of their basic freedoms, over that disagreement. I'm glad to hear that neither do you. A rare voice of sanity among a media that focuses on, and feeds, the views of the most extreme - and the scary part is that this extreme has become part of the mainstream speech. Again, thank you, Mr. Levi. For having a message that I can respect, even if I don't entirely agree with the particulars.

As far as I know there is no Nobel laureates in Morocco nor Arabs, nor Jews. There is 10 in Israel, and even one of them is a religious Jew.

If they can lead their life the way they want in Queens,NY and Lakefield,NJ why can't they in Jerusalem.

I just wanted to reciprocate your wonderful sentiment.

while it's all very nice and good to quote the hafetz chaim, you seem to have misunderstood one key word: donations. the haredim are not supported by "donations", but by "taxation". and any halakhic scholar can explain to you the difference between tzedakah and ma'aser. just to give you a clue, ma'aser never went to yeshiva bochers. if the hareidim in israel lived off "donations" as the yeshivas do in the states, not only would the relationship be different, but also, the roshei yeshivot might also not FORBID their students to "waste" their time learning a trade. because just as the seculars in israel have lost respect for the haredim who do not work, so the haredim have lost respect for the workers whose labours support them.

We seem to be facing a problem like the “1 bad apple in the barrel that gives the whole barrel a bad smell”. The Haridim should be free to practice Judaism as they see fit but when 1 group the (Gur Hassidim) try to make the whole country comply with their way of life a red line is crossed. The gender separation & female singing problems are not universally accepted as problems by all the Haridim sects. In the rest of the world Hassidim work for a living this shows that there is no reason for Hassidim not to work as does everybody else. By not teaching the core curriculum the yeshivas are insuring that Hassidim will not have the tools to take on a paying job thus insuring that the rest of Israel must continue pay for their upkeep. The reduced fares on public transportation, the special housing projects and reduced price super markets make every non- Hassidic citizen in Israel a second class citizen. We must stop subsidizing the Hassidim with the dole & reduced fares as well as any other activities paid for by tax money all citizens must be first class citizens. The Hassidim are in fact fuelling the public’s discontent by not wanting to change.

No, that is not what I said in my post. I said that a closed community that wishes to be closed should be given some consideration if they do not impinge upon others. This has nothing to do with the segregation in Alabama. You're stretching too far.

Let them practice religion in their homes. Let them use their beit knesset in any way that suits them but in compliance with State laws. Provide shelter to those who want to get out from their communities and become non-Haredim. In their isolation they cannot be part of Israeli political system. High time to separate religion and State, like in America.

Most of us don't hate haredim and would be very happy to just let them run their lives the way they want. The issue is that THEY are ones that have broken the status quo and have started attacking us and enforcing their values on us (forcing advertisers to remove women, telling use where to sit on the bus, attacking little children because they want a school building, etc.). We are just reacting to that, and defending ourselves. If they go back to the status quo and get out of our faces, then we'll stop being angry.

It's a good question, and I think you'll find it's because the Haredim living in the U.S. and Europe probably wouldn't dare behave the way they do in Israel because they're afraid to risk provoking the wrath of the larger (overwhelmingly non-Jewish) population. However, they obviously think they can get away with their unacceptable behavior in Israel, since they apparently don't fear the growing anger of the overwhelmingly secular majority ...and that's being borne out by the fact that they appear to be ratcheting up the provocations by the day. Not only that, but they're not blind to the fact that Israel's political system requires a certain amount of sucking up on the part of politicians to a handful of religious minority parties who have political power way beyond their numbers. In Brooklyn we used to refer to this as "having you by the short hairs...and pulling." However, considering the state of affairs in Israel these days, the Haredim might want to re-think their propensity for continually pushing the envelope.

Sagi, your posts are the best I read in a long time,thank you! I agree with you as a proud Israeli Jew not even 1st. generation here since I maed Aliya with my family about 15 ys. ago and proudly belong to the 1/3 that served in the army proudly as all of my kids have done too, study at the University with great success and work from Sun to Sun very hard. I don't need religion to be a proud Jew very aware of our long epic history. Thanks Sagi for your posts, makes me feel the few os us are not that alone after all. Daniel, Human, Jew, Physicist, Mathematician, Rationalist and a good father and citizen (trying all the time ;-)

compulsory education by the state for everybody till the age of 15., then everybody is hopfully matured enough to decide how life should look like.

There are many more things which unite Israel's Jews than divide us so don't let hatred undermine the Jewish people. Both secular and religious Jews should be able to thrive in Israel but EVERYONE without exceptions has to display patriotism, financially support their families and contribute to the one and only Jewish nation-state.

you know it yourselves

Rabbi Ovadia Yosef shlit’a about secular Jews (Dec. 31, 2011): “We have to bring them closer and not drive them away. It is a mitzvah to bring those who are distant closer. There is no Jew who does not have a holy spark; even journalists have a holy spark in their heart” . (Brachot 57b and Sanhedrin 37b) commentary on "Shir Ha_Shirim (6:7): "afilou ha_reikanim she_bah meleim mitzvot ke_rimon"

Even though i don'y agree with everything he says Amnon Levy , is a true thinker and has guts to say what he thinks even when it goes against the tide of popular tel aviv thinking, and i admire him for that

A beacon of hope.

....what about neighborhoods/cities that are mixed. Most communities in Israel are not homogeneous, but heterogeneous and there will always be competition for the purse of the taxpayer. If a school decides that they will not teach math, English, and science, but ONLY study Talmud the whole day or if a school decides they will only study poems written by Yonatan Geffen, do I have to fund them with my taxes? What about the army? There is only one IDF. How to accommodate the different demands by the secular who want to hear woman singing and the religious who don't. Much as Mr. Levi means well, there is only one Israel and unless we are all going to separate into our respective ghettos there will be debates. We just need to learn how to resolve them (or at least try to resolve them) civilly.

For both sides. The likes of thePoster of the tb #51 are the ones who benefit from your civil war. Step back from the brink of fratricide!

to the outrageous behavior and demands of a pre-modern people. I don't think it is hatred in the clasic sense, more like disgust and concern for the future of the Jewish people and the State of Israel. Maybe its time for some "tough love"?

Number 51's comment is outrageous and racist - how do you publish such a thing?! I thought there was a moderator to these posts...if there is he needs some serious soul searching!

the should move. Yes that applies to the Arabs, and yes, it applies to Neturei Karta too.