Thanks for the quick lesson... however not every yeshiva in Israel accepts NIS as i am sure you are aware of and that es where my statement came from

Thank Sir.

Thanks God that the real jews do not define and praise themselves on how many Nobel Laureates they have won, the Nobel Laureate is god for Yasser Arafat and the Jews from Khazar, as for us the real Jews we only take merits by studying the Torah, Talmud and the holy books . The rest we will leave it to you and your friends so that you can live a disgraceful life.

The reality in the latest incidents is that Charedim are going out of their way to interfere with the rest of what society has been doing all along. THEY are the ones who are expanding their reach and trying to encroach on the boundaries of others. No one asked them to build their community in Beit Shemesh near a modern orthodox school, yet they did and they curse at and spit on the children who pass by. If they do not provide their own buses, they cannot ask non-Charedi women to sit in the back just because that is their practice in their own community. The point is they cannot enforce their community's rules on the rest of Israeli society. If their way violates the laws of the rest of society, it cannot be tolerated anywhere that society doesn't want it tolerated.

Yes we can and do DEMAND that loyalty, just as Americans demand that atheists are loyal to "ONE NATION UNDER GOD". To expect less is extremely racist. Why do you not believe that our Arab citizens are less than human? Time to stop treating the Arabs as they are lessor people. They are not and must be held to the same standard as the rest of the country. I too hear the claims of them not serving, but the Tel-Aviv Cafe Commandos have a far LOWER rate of military service than the Haridem. All this I say as a secular Jew.

Whether seculars are in the minority or majority depends on your definition of both 'seculars' and 'religious'. There have been assertions of both; that seculars are the majority and that religious are the majority. I think it's very good that there are religious who live among the seculars. I would hope this would continue to increase. But to do so would entail compromise. Here in the US, those orthodox (many in caftans and shtreimels) going to synagogue on Shabat that must traverse streets with traffic and stop lights, do so with no problem. Some areas are closed to traffic on Shabat, but only where the great majority are very orthodox.

Look in a mirror and you will see a true trouble maker. And while you are at it, search the internet to find lists of what Jews have contributed to the world (including much of the basis of the very computer and internet you are using to expose your blindness). And you know it yourself.

in Israel that will change everything.

So we let Haredi live Haredi lives? Who will support future generations of under-educated children?

I don't care what haredim do. Live and let live. The problem is that many haredim do not feel the same way - they try to force their view on US. Come to Bet Shemesh and see for yourself. Or watch the video where the man is saying how they will one day make all of Israel follow haredi law whether they life it or not. I do agree with the author on one point - some secular Jews have taken it upon themselves to enforce their views on the haredim. They want to show them how it feels but 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Thanks Amnon! I, too, find myself in the same position vis a vis my dear liberal friends. It 's frightening to see truly liberal people so infuriated and, yes, threatened by the Haredim. I would never live their lifestyle; let them be. But what's good for the goose is good for the gander!

finally, a voice of reason on ynet - may there be more.

))))))) I would like to offer the secular liberals and intellectuals to institute the Prayer: "Oh our secular atheist no-gods!))) We, the newly unquestionable societal priesthood, will destroy any hindrance of thinking other than secular by killing the NAME of anybody who thinks differently. We'll declare him an old-fashioned uneducated fool. Sorry, oh gods, we cannot ourselves die for our ideals (we are too lazy or angry) so we'll be doubting any value besides doubting itself. Anybody "not doubting" is under our heavy doubt!))))))))) We will be doubting you, oh gods too, even during this prayer we are doubting you! Please send us comfort in our doubts and in life in general. We still want some pleasant future. Amen! And the Holy Secular spirits will descend on "non believers")))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

It's amazing how blind people are to 2 feet outside of limited little existence. Only the Right imposes themselves on the Left, and the Left is all about 'live and let live'? Ask all the soldiers who are being pressured to transgress their beliefs of modesty by listening to women singers. Read the Leftist press, they daily belittle and degrade people of faith, people who love the land, who want society to maintain a higher level of purity, who disdain the garbage the world passes as 'cultural enlightenment'. The Left likes to believe itself to be tolerant, but their tolerance extents only to those that think like themselves.

1. Your 'prayer' reflects extreme hasidim rather than seculars, especially with 'killing the name of anybody who thinks differently', etc. 2. Your diatribe shows how extreme you are. Hope does not lie in being extreme, on either side. Even your side.

masterly style, clear and sharp thinking. I am very impressed,and not the least by by your words"by agreement and understanding" Surrounded by enemies Israel can NOT afford to diminish her strength by a civil war. May i suggest you to write the history of your family,and your biography,these being a considerable part of Israeli s history. I am quiet convinced that with your skills,your book will be a bestseller.And more than that ,some grand-children might be aware how your family served the country with blood and sweat and come back to their fatherland. I wish you from all my heart to still be here to witness that. Warm regards.

being extreme" Nicely said,Solomon.

Thanks Ora. Your posts and responses, particularly to Charles and myself are always pleasant, albeit overly naive, as I have said to you before. Being a good Samaritan is indeed very noble, loving Humanity is very noble,charity is noble,having empathy and feeling for the underdog is noble,believing in kindness and the basic goodness in your fellow being is also noble. Unfortunately the world has been hijacked by bad people who created all sorts of false "isms" and managed to project them onto society and gather flocks and herds of "believers" who in turn decided to use force and violence to control others at large.Nowhere is this more evident than in religion, in all its categories denominations and manifestations. As for me writing a book. The history of my family and our contribution to the State is no different, larger or smaller, than that of many many other families. I do not regard this as being special, just what had to be done. I have always regarded the Torah as a written history of our People and I have always regarded the philosphy therein to be very rich and profound. "Tread with modesty" is an example that has always been a part of my personal life. Thanks again for your kind words.

The Haredim have brought this anger upon themselves. It may not be nice but there it is. They have brought it upon themselves with their hatred towards others. They stand in judgement of all other Jews and goyim alike. They take and take and give little back. And while taking instead of being grateful or even silent, they spit in the face of the givers. No likes to be treated like this. No one. The Haredim had their best chance to be adored here in this country and THEY blew it with their own behavior.

Israelis love pissing on the religious Jew yet when they find themselves abroad and lonely for home, they usually run to chabbad inorder to feel they are not alone. Stop the pissfest and grow up. You all sound ridiculous.

When people speak of haredim, they usually do not mean chabad. Chabad is known for being open, not forcing themselves on you, and backing off when necessary. Read a little about chabad and pay attention to which religious Jews are written about in these posts. Otherwise you'll sound ridiculous.

but most charedim I speak to actually agree with you It is degrading for a child to ask his father what is your job and the father is a loss for an answer. What should he tell the child? Ah well you see we live on handouts. What is needed is more training programs for chareidim and also for seculars who are having trouble finding work. The devil finds mischeif for idle hands. If the chareidim could get descent jobs they would feel better aboiut themselves and others but the secular world must be willing to give them jobs once they develope the proper skills