Opinion
The Judeo-Christian divide
Dan Calic
Published: 01.02.12, 18:15
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31. #28 - We don't have evidence for this, good sir.
Henry from New York ,   USA   (02.02.12)
32. ''He who blesses Israel will be blessed !''
who cares   (02.02.12)
33. As a Christian - I say Amen
R Froelich ,   Chicago, IL USA   (02.02.12)
Persecution of any person under the guise of any faith is abomination. Replacement theology, is the ugliest of heresies. I suspect we agree that G-d is sovereign - he chose when and how to reveal himself to Israel. He promised to make Israel a blessing to all men. The point at which he chooses to reveal the one who was pierced to his beloved Israel will be one of his choosing as well.
34. #28 persecution
yosef ,   williamsburg   (02.02.12)
So was it a Jewish govm't during these so called times of "Jewish" persecution or one of your mother church's homeland...ROME??
35. The Catholic Church is the...
Jeffrey ,   Texas, US   (02.02.12)
800-pound gorilla! Being Catholic and being Christian are not one in the same. Many Christians were murdered by the Catholic Church for not bowing to the Catholic Church dogma! Jesus (Yeshua) said that he did not come here to change the 'law' but to fulfill the law. So it would be nice to incorporate more Judaism into Christianity. (Note: when we were Israel we were asked if we wanted to tour the top of the temple mount... but we did NOT because Jews with us explained how sacred the area still is to them! ... so were not all bad)
36. Mr Dan Calic...maybe some Christians should...
Mark ,   Lodz, Poland   (02.02.12)
...but leave our Eaglebeak out of this. Sir, we have have some Christian friends regularly on these YNET threads that I hope don't find your article offensive. I deem it rather abrasive to those who already stand by us through thick and thin.
37. Christianity is paganism with Jesus as
Chris Rettenmoser ,   Bayerisch Gmain Germ   (02.02.12)
the golden calf !
38. Christianity began as a JEWISH SECT and became a ROMAN CULT.
Jerry ,   The Netherlands   (02.02.12)
39. I don't think so.
Luiz F Haddad ,   Niteroi, Brazil   (02.02.12)
Mr. Jeffrey Korman, I don't think so. You can't prove your atheist ideas. We, faithful believers, accept the sacred books, because of the same free option. Discussions about the issue are impossible. Nevertheless, we and you must be united on solidarity, struggling for a better world. Salutes.
40. To N 12, Jewish Patriot
Luiz F Haddad ,   Niteroi, Brazil   (02.02.12)
Dear Jewish Patriot. There are many Roman Catholics, like me, that love and support Israel. There are many Evangelics, too. Antisemitism means ignorance and shame. Your people has suffered very much because of it. Today, however, we, Sons of Abraham, Peoples of Allegiance, have to work together in order to a better future. It is up on us, finally, repudiating firmly, into our denominations, the ones which defend, just yet, the refered past trash; laics or clericals. God bless His chosen people.
41. #10 please do continue in your faith
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (02.02.12)
And please leave us to our own. That is all we ask.
42. Repentance vs forgiveness
Raoul ,   France   (02.02.12)
Well, I think most religions have to repent for something. For instance, from what I understood, in the Torah there is a call for genocide. An indeed, it seems to have worked since the Amalekites have disappeared. Asking for other repentance is asking the other to accept its inferiority. Forgiveness is accepting the other as his equal. As long as people will ask for repentance rather than to forgive and live in peace with others, wars and killings will continue. And this message is conveyed to you by an atheist. Shalom
43. Jezus was part&product of Am Yisrael, 100% JEWISH.
Jerry ,   The Netherlands   (02.02.12)
44. Rather ridiculous moment to push this antique baggage
Cameron ,   USA   (02.02.12)
Particularly while howling for a Christian nation to begin military action and start a war in order to save your fannies from The Muslim Bomb. I salute the absolutely absurd timing of grudging over evangelicals and basic Christian theology when Persians and bright flashes should be your all-encompassing concern. Flippin' amazing.
45. You have my repentance
Ron ,   Clarksburg Canada   (02.02.12)
I believe the horrendous treatment that most peoples have perpetrated against the Jewish people is based in their pride. The 800 pound gorilla becomes the size of a pigmy when honour and humility reign. On behalf of my heritage (WASP) I repent for the constant arrogance and abuse (antisemitism) that seems endemic in "my" people. Shalom
46. #25 The NT is contradicting itself
Matityahu ,   Slovenia   (02.02.12)
Because if you read Matthew ch. 5 (17-19), it's said ipsissima verba by Jesus that whoever will break the laws of the torah or teach people to do differently, will be the least in the kingdom of heaven. So what's it going to be?
47. Jewish people
(02.02.12)
After much time spent on sites like this I'm starting to believe that the Jewish people as a group don't really want friendship with anyone outside the group. Their religion has cut them off from the rest of humanity. It has made them mad. Crazy. Abnormal. Your demands for repentance are just a smokescreen to hide behind.
48. To: No. 8
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (02.02.12)
You are an idiot. It's a little hard to overlook documented evidence, now, isn't it? Of course, you are just somebody not quite smart enough to buy in Great Neck. More fool you. Shut up. You wouldn't belong there, anyway.
49. Why does Dan Calic accept the Christian storyline?
Jeffrey Korman ,   Douglaston, NY   (02.02.12)
Why does Dan Calic believe the Christian Bible is true? Why do Rabbis accept the Christian Bible as factual? Why?, because they live in a world of myths and fantasy. The Torah is fiction, the New Testament which bases the life of Jesus on the Septuagint is fiction. That the New Testament narrative also uses Homer to create its myths and stories make it fiction. The Koran is fiction, Mohammed never existed. The basis for an understanding is that there is no basis for being different at all. We are all the same and deserve the same respect.
50. #39 Luiz, you are an atheist because Jesus never existed.
Jeffrey Korman ,   Douglaston, NY   (02.02.12)
There is no religion and everyone is an "atheist" because everything they believe about their god is proven to be fiction and forgeries. For the argument to shift back fifteen billion years ago is a logical fallacy. The burden of religious people is proving that they have a god and in every case their argument is destroyed by the scholarship and science, proving that theism in its particulars is nothing but myth and fiction, forgeries and lies. The torah is bascially reworked Egyptian myths. The New Testament reworked Old Testament fiction and Greek myth. The Koran mostly reworked the Christian and Jewish fiction and myths. Moses, Jesus, Mohammed never existed.
51. #50 - Those arguments don't make any sense though.
Henry from New York ,   USA   (02.02.12)
A religion is an organised set of beliefs based on just that, belief. Whether or not those beliefs are corrected and backed up facts or not is irrelevant. To say that they are atheists because the beliefs are based on falsehoods is nonsensical for that very reason. As for proving we have a God, we once again have a belief there is one and so we have one in that respect. As for whether or not this God or other higher beings exist though; that is most likely not dependent on our belief. One can neither prove nor disprove the existence of a higher being as we have no means to actually do so at this time. We can only make arguments based on our limited understanding of the Universe. As for the Torah, the first two books are indeed based on myths from various places, but the books after have their grounding in reality. Starting after the Kings of Israel and Judah who came after Solomon - we don't have evidence for him, but we do have some for David - we archaeologists start finding evidence that begins to corroborate the histories as recorded in the Torah. The more recent one gets, the more evidence we find to back up the stories. It might not be the best history book, but the Torah does have some basis in fact. As for the rest of what you have said, if I remember correctly the prophetic stuff in the New Testament is just a reflection of what those early Christians were going through. On Moses, we don't have evidence for him and probably never will find any as the "Conquest hypothesis" isn't backed up by the evidence we find - which points to a Canaanite origin. On Jesus, we don't have evidence for him yet, but it was the same story with Pontius Pilatus until we found that amphitheatre. There probably was such a man even if he didn't do all the stuff attributed to him. Someone has to have started that mystery religion after all! As for Prophet Mohammad, I don't know enough about him to say anything with authority, but I've never heard his existence being questioned before. Even in the absence of evidence, it doesn't mean that something didn't exist. It usually means you haven't found it yet. You can only say that something most likely didn't exist after a long time with nothing found in the right places. "Absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence."
52. #8, Korman, BRAVO, BRAVO, BRAVO
Michael ,   California, USA   (02.02.12)
The thing is, we need to be organized, strong and able to prevail when they come for us all together. Wouldn't the world be a better place without religion? Inventing it (the rains were falling anyway) created this endless havoc. When humanity will start all over again, it will do so without religion.
53. #52 - Even without religion we would still find many things
Henry from New York ,   USA   (02.02.12)
to fight over - territory, wealth, prestige, power, etc. Also, what are you talking about when you talk about humanity starting over? Why do you think there will be religion exactly?
54. #53, Henry, Religion has no future.
Michael ,   California, USA   (02.02.12)
This is what I meant to say, no future because if we had the choice we would do better than what religion has given us so far. By the way, I like your comment #51 as coming from an open thinker. Fighting may continue, as you say in #53, but there is no greater basis to wars than what religions hold. I vote with Korman to ban (voluntarily, if there is such a thing) all religions.
55. MAKING PEACE; YHWH has one “Chosen People”.
Ricardo Jimenez ,   Atlanta, GA - USA   (02.02.12)
**YHWH has one “Chosen People” called the Children of Israel (Those that rule with YHWH, the Green Olive Tree), and we as believers in our High Priest Y’SHUA are grafted into that Olive Tree called Israel then by default we are grafted into all of her covenants as well. **One God – (YHWH). **One Messiah – (Y’SHUA). **One Covenant – (1 - Obey the Voice, 2 - Do the Commandments, 3 - Do it in Faith). **One Law – (The Word of YHWH) = (The Written Torah) = (The Living Word/Torah) = (The Son of YHWH) = (Y’SHUA). **One Chosen People – (The Children of Israel).
56. #55 you have no right
(02.02.12)
you have a real nerve to drag a whole race of people into YOUR religion . Who gives you the right to tell Jews that they are a ''chosen people'' a ''special people'' when this theory has led to untold suffering for them? If I was a Jew I would tell you to leave us alone and stick your crazy ideas where the sun don't shine. Please think on these words and understand the evil things you are helping to bring down on the heads of these people by spreading with your crazy ideas. which are not even traditional Christian ideas. Your religion was only invented a 100 years or so ago. Wake up please!!! You are deluded and you are dangerous.
57. MAKING PEACE; YHWH who distinguishes between holy & profane.
Ricardo Jimenez ,   Atlanta, GA - USA   (02.02.12)
Blessed are You, O YHWH our God, King of the universe, who distinguishes between the holy and the profane, between light and darkness, between Israel and the nations, between the seventh day and the six days of work. Blessed are You, YHWH, who distinguishes between the holy and the profane, and has committed all judgment unto Your Son Y’SHUA the Messiah; and you who sometimes were far off are made near by the blood of Messiah. For he is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of the two one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto YHWH in one body by the execution pole, stake or cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were near. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of YHWH.
58. True Christians not responsible for Holocaust!
Lotti P ,   Canada   (02.03.12)
This article is full of misunderstandings, for example saying Christians need to repent for the Holocaust! Sir, you need to understand that not everyone from a "Christian" nation is a true Christian, in fact a minority is and they have always, and will always, love the Jewish people and stand up for Israel. You may not want that love, but the truth is that during the Holocaust true Christians have protected Jewish families and spoken up against the regime. Many paid with their lives for this, like Dietrich Bonhoeffer for example and many unnamed people, and they did this because they fear G-d. Repentance would be needed from those who have abused the Christian faith and sinned even more against G-d as they sinned against the Jews.
59. # 55
Birdi ,   Israel   (02.03.12)
A question for you. What will you do to & how will you treat the Jews once the Messiah comes??
60. # 57 Which beautiful prayer - so true
Dorothea Killus ,   Germany   (02.03.12)
because derived from the Bible, the Word of the Living God! Yes, there is a deep secret about God's history of salvation which comprises Jews and Gentile. As we read in the last book of the Bible, in Rev 15:3, of the united crowd victorious at the end of time, "And they sang the song of M o s e s , the bond-servant of God, and the song of the L a m b , saying, "Great and marvelous are Your works, O Lord God, the Almighty; Righteous and true are Your ways, King of the nations!"'
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