#43 Harold. Legally speaking, there is no dispute. Israel's legal ownership of Judea and Samaria has been incontrovertibly proven by many world renowned international law experts. On top of that, Israel won Judea and Samaria in a defensive war. There has never been a state of Palestine and thus there are no "Palestinian lands".

Two questions: 1. If Israel legally owns 'Judea and Samaria' why is it not fully under Israeli civil jurisdiction and why, therefore, are all its inhabitants not granted full Israeli citizenship? 2. If a self-defined people have never had state does that always mean that it can never claim a land, or, if it wins a land through a 'defensive' war, it is then entitled to claim it?

UN General Assembly passed a "recommendation" to partition Palestine into 2 states (read the document yourself), and the Arab side rejected it...violently. So, rather than accepting partiiton, the UN Security Council passed a resolution authorizing the General Assembly to go back and reconsider. The partition plan fell by the wayside, and turned into an abortion. It is null and void in international law. The only legal entitlements that are still valid are those in the 1922 Palestine Mandate document, assigning the territory west of the Jordan to the Jewish national home, including Judea and Samaria.

Is it any wonder that so many of the people who arrived in Israel in the post WW2 era quickly and enthusiatically changed from European to Hebrew names, not wishing any further ties with the blighted continent?

And it's been prevalent in Europe for 2 centuries. What's so surprising about it?

Total EU-Israel trade is increasing after the difficulties dues to the worldwide economic crisis: both import and export with EU have marked a sharp rising in 2010, with a +23% and +31% respectively. Source: European Commission

I can't say I've noticed its popularity in Israel is on the wane.

Fob of friends and trading partners, such as the UK, which you quite rightly point out they are the 2nd largest trading partner to Israel. If you see everything as black and white as your xenophobic writing appears to then I hope you will never ever be in a position of power to cancel trading agreements with Israels biggest trading partners. To then you even mention how Israel shouldn't trade with the EU as a whole, what planet are you on? Israel is a bubble in the middle east with about 7 million people. They/we need all the help and support we can get. Please go back to sleep.

Why are Swedes posting in the talkbacks that the sky is not falling when the airport in Stockholm just banned flights to and from Israel?

How many flights go daily anyway between Stockholm And tel aviv? No one was banned, the Swedish didn't like Arkia airlines security methods. There is a big difference in what you're implying and what is the truth. Let me guess, you're American?

the respected financial writer in the ft the london financial times wrote "i fear the left hates israel" and he is a very temperate writer who almost never mentions israel

2009 ; EU imp. 8.9 Exp. 11.4 . in 2010 : EU imp 11.1 , exp 14.4 and in 2011 the EU has imported 12.6 Billion EU , exported 16.8 billion to Israel . Relatively maybe less important in % , but in worth it's UP . In 1992 , the bilateral China Israel trade was only a 30 million US$ , now it stands at 8 billion

It's unfortunate because it creates too much dependence on the EU. The vast majority of Europeans hold anti-Israeli/anti-Semitic feelings. What happens if the trade with the EU goes up to 30%, 35% or even 40% or 45% of Israeli foreign trade and what happens when and if the EU decides to put pressure on Israel in such situation? Have you ever thought of that Lior or is rational and logical thinking not your strongest side? "If you see everything as black and white" In what sense do I see things as black and white? "as your xenophobic writing appears" Where did I express xenophobia dear Lior? What has xenophobia got to do with changing or replacing business partners? "to then I hope you will never ever be in a position of power to cancel trading agreements with Israels biggest trading partners." Can you read English? Do you understand English? I never said anything about cancelling trade with the EU. "Cancel" trade and "decrease" or "limit" trade as in percentage of total Israeli foreign trade are not the same. You had better learn reading comprehension and you had better learn the meaning of the words you are using. I certainly hope that morons like you will never be in a position of power in Israel because Israel cannot afford to have stupid leaders. Yes the EU is Israel's largest trading partner - and that's precisely the problem. Over reliance on the EU is dangerous to Israel. Did it ever occur to you that EU is not Israel's only business partner? Did it ever occur to you that USA, Canada, Latin America, Africa, Russia, India, China, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Australia exist? Why your obsession with trading with the EU? Do you think that the EU is the only trading partner Israel has? "To then you even mention how Israel shouldn't trade with the EU as a whole, what planet are you on?" What planet are you on Lior? Where did I say that Israel shouldn't trade with the EU as a whole? Point it out! I told her: "And yes I agree with you that trade with the EU must be kept at the absolute minimum in terms of percentage of Israel's annual exports and annual imports." I also said: Israel can replace the Europeans with other business partners. Alternatively, Israel can keep the same volume of trade with the EU on an annual basis but increase trade with the rest of the world so that trade with the EU shrinks to 20%, 15%, 12% or maybe even 10% or below 10%. LEARN how to read English Lior and learn reading comprehension and LEARN mathematics. Or better still: go back to sleep.

Yes Israel legally owns Judea and Samaria since the Sam Remo Treaty of 1920 and the Anglo-American Treaty signed 3rd of December 1924 in London UK are both legally binding documents - forgotten by much of the world and forgotten by many in Israel - including jurists, that the legally defined borders of the Jewish state according to those legally binding treaties are Cis-Jordan (including Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, Gaza and Golan Heights), Trans-Jordan (Jordan) and southern Lebanon up until the bend of the Litani river. And furthermore: Jews would exercise independence and sovereignty within that territory and could settle the land anywhere within that territory. Israel has ironically violated international law - not by Israeli presence in Judea and Samaria, but by failing to annex it since it is Israeli territory. Israelis/Jews in Judea and Samaria are Israeli citizens. Arabs of Judea and Samaria are no Israeli citizens. Israel doesn't want them to destroy Israel demographically. Do you? The legal and political solution to the problem is that "Palestinians" return to Germany, Italy, Greece, the Balkans, Turkey, Central Asia, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, North Africa, Somalia and Sudan, expel the "Jordanians" from the artificial and illegal state entity called "Jordan" (Hashemite Royal Family from Saudi Arabia - an artificial Jordanian state created by the UK in the early 1920s on 78% of our Jewish land) and let Jews annex Judea, Samaria, Jordan and southern Lebanon - and Arabs would have to be expelled. If they stay on our territory they violate international law. No self defined peoples, neither genuine nor invented like the "Palestinians" can claim a piece of land they have no historical connections to, a land they never bought and a land they cannot legally claim. Identity and land ownership are not the same. The "Palestinians" can claim their identity but not our Jewish homeland nor can they live in our Jewish homeland.

Yes I've visited the homepage of the European Commission and I can verify the figures you presented in talkback nr 66. However you are missing the point. Even if the volume of trade has seen a sharp rise it doesn't mean that the Israeli trade with the EU constitutes a higher percentage of the total volume of trade of Israeli foreign trade. There is no problem with the volume of trade rising as long as it decreases as a percentage of Israel's total foreign trade.

"In 1992 , the bilateral China Israel trade was only a 30 million US$ , now it stands at 8 billion." Yes I know that the trade with China has risen sharply over the years. That's very fortunate since most Chinese do not harbor anti-Semitic feelings unlike the Europeans. Israel cannot afford to be too dependent on trade with an anti-Semitic European continent. "2009 ; EU imp. 8.9 Exp. 11.4 . in 2010 : EU imp 11.1 , exp 14.4 and in 2011 the EU has imported 12.6 Billion EU , exported 16.8 billion to Israel . Relatively maybe less important in % , but in worth it's UP." Ironically, you are both missing my point and validating my point. There is no strategic problem for Israel that the total volume of trade with the EU is rising - we will after all see a stronger Israeli economy. The strategic security problem begins when trade with the EU constitutes a very high percentage of Israel's total annual foreign trade/volume of trade. The volume of trade with Europe should increase - on condition that the volume of trade for the USA and rest of the world increases even faster. Israeli- European volume of trade can increase on condition that the percentage of this trade declines in relation to total Israeli foreign trade/volume of trade.

It's unfortunate because it creates too much dependence on the EU. The vast majority of Europeans hold anti-Israeli/anti-Semitic feelings. What happens if the trade with the EU goes up to 30%, 35% or even 40% or 45% of Israeli foreign trade and what happens when and if the EU decides to put pressure on Israel in such situation? Have you ever thought of that Lior or is rational and logical thinking not your strongest side? "If you see everything as black and white" In what sense do I see things as black and white? "as your xenophobic writing appears" Where did I express xenophobia dear Lior? What has xenophobia got to do with changing or replacing business partners? "to then I hope you will never ever be in a position of power to cancel trading agreements with Israels biggest trading partners." Can you read English? Do you understand English? I never said anything about cancelling trade with the EU. "Cancel" trade and "decrease" or "limit" trade as in percentage of total Israeli foreign trade are not the same. You had better learn reading comprehension and you had better learn the meaning of the words you are using. I certainly hope that morons like you will never be in a position of power in Israel because Israel cannot afford to have stupid leaders. Yes the EU is Israel's largest trading partner - and that's precisely the problem. Over reliance on the EU is dangerous to Israel. Did it ever occur to you that EU is not Israel's only business partner? Did it ever occur to you that USA, Canada, Latin America, Africa, Russia, India, China, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and Australia exist? Why your obsession with trading with the EU? Do you think that the EU is the only trading partner Israel has? "To then you even mention how Israel shouldn't trade with the EU as a whole, what planet are you on?" What planet are you on Lior? Where did I say that Israel shouldn't trade with the EU as a whole? Point it out! I told her: "And yes I agree with you that trade with the EU must be kept at the absolute minimum in terms of percentage of Israel's annual exports and annual imports." I also said: Israel can replace the Europeans with other business partners. Alternatively, Israel can keep the same volume of trade with the EU on an annual basis but increase trade with the rest of the world so that trade with the EU shrinks to 20%, 15%, 12% or maybe even 10% or below 10%. LEARN how to read English Lior and learn reading comprehension and LEARN mathematics. Or better still: go back to sleep.

You think that we should depend less on the trade with the EU [ in % ] . Why ? Do you think that they import or goods to do us a favor ? No , they NEED them . Strategic security ? do you think that they will boyccot our products ? They also export more to our country , not bad in the actual economic situation there . I think that good , and big , trade relations is also good for the political relations between different countries . I don't think that Europe is so "united" against Israel , it's a paranoia to think it .

You think that our trade with the EU should diminish [ in % ] Why ? They don't buy our products to do us a favor , they need them . They also export more to our country , not bad in the economic situation from today I did'nt miss your poiunt , i only pointed out that our trade with the EU is growing . Don't be such a paranoiac , the EU foreign minister is not the whole of Europe . They criticise Israel's policy ? A french saying : les chiens aboient , la caravane passe . Something as , "let them bark , we are going on" . Of course , it would do good to our economy if our trade with the EU grows [ in billions of EU ] while becoming a smaller % of the total .

Charles, you say you didn't miss my point, but you want to point out the fact that trade with the EU is growing and that this trade as a percentage of our total foreign trade is shrinking? Yes, so what is this discussion about? If we agree, then what are we debating? And we seem to agree that the trade with EU should be a smaller percentage of our total foreign trade. So where is our disagreement? Of course the EU needs our products but the EU has threatened multiple times of boycotting Israel. It's a risk Israel can't take. I'll give you an illustrative example that simplifies reality: Suppose Israel's foreign trade with the world is 100$ and trade with the EU - Israeli imports and exports included, are 50$. That's 50% of Israel's foreign trade. That's a dangerous situation. Such dependency jeopardizes Israel's well being. I'm not willing to find out whether the Europeans are just joking or if they are being serious. Israel should act proactively. Now let's suppose that Israeli trade with the EU increases from 50$ to 100$. That's an increase for sure. But let's suppose that total Israeli foreign trade goes up from 100$ to 1000$. That means the volume of trade with Europe is bigger, but a smaller percentage of Israel's total foreign trade. And that's what I am talking about. Yes I do believe that the EU will definitely try to boycott Israel and if trade with the EU constitutes a huge percentage of Israeli foreign trade, the EU has a lot of leverage against Israel. The EU will try to persuade Israel into not attacking Iran, allowing the Arabs to stay in Judea, Samaria and Gaza, interfer with Jerusalem's status, borders etc. That's a risk we can't take. Even if everything turns out fine - it's a risk we can't take. Regarding Europe being united or not against Israel: I wish you were right. But I doubt it. Depending less on the EU will not interrupt our economic growth. Israel can trade with the USA, Canada, Latin America, Africa, Russia, India, China, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, South East Asia and Australia as well. "Of course , it would do good to our economy if our trade with the EU grows [ in billions of EU ] while becoming a smaller % of the total . " Yup I agree. That's what I tried to explain before to other debaters.

but trade with countries who are nearer to us is important too . Many EU and other societies who trade with China have their , or part of , factories installed there . China's growth has also slowed down , they looked at export but did'n't develop the local market enough [ France 24 ] We need very developped countries to export our Hi Tech etc . And what if the USA will try to impose their will on us ? Do you think that our best ally will always accept everything what we are doing ? Do you think that the arabs [ Saudi Arabia as # 1 ] don't lobby the US ? They also "blackmailed" the US to receive weapons , advanced ones [ The Arab lobby . Michel Bard ] Why did Egypt sign the "peace treaty" with us ? to receive billions of US$ every year .

Do you know something about history or Shoa ? I lived most of my life there , before , during and many years after WWII ended . "...cooperation of all of Europe to hand over ..." All of Europe ? And the Bulgarians ? Italians ? Danes ? Did they hand over their Jews ? How was it possible then that around 75 % of French Jews were saved ? That at least half of Belgian Jews were rescued ? To betray a Jew , one traitor was enough . To save one , many were needed . Those actively helping , and all the others as silent bystanders . Do you think that most of our neighboors did'nt know what we are ? Our landlord ? the grocer ? and the many others who told my mother after the liberation that she could breath now freely without fearing anything anymore ? They all knew , but didn't hand over anybody . Yes , there were many collaborators , traitors [ even some Jewish ones ] it are only those you are talking about , while ignoring the majority .

More monster scare tactics. Europe is less a threat than OC in Israel.