Its a fact of Jewish history.

So many points made. Like the one about how easy it is to be a secular Jew in Israel. Is it? If you don't have your own car, can you take a public bus to another city on Shabbat? Can you buy bread on Passover? Can you marry your non-Jewish fiance (or potentially non-Jewish, as many Russians need to confirm their Jewishness) inside Israel? To the many here who hate Reform Judaism - who do you think is the majority population that works in AIPAC and other Jewish communal organizations - is it the Orthodox 15% - I'm taking this number, because many in the Orthodox community are children, and many are Hasidic children, who aren't always interested in Israel and public politics, but sell the vote to the highest bidder. If Israel keeps disregarding Reform and Conservative, at some point they may start disregarding Israel too. (So, that you know, outside of a few rabbis, most of the Reform movement - and I'm sure Conservative, too - strongly identifies with Israel. Once again, majority of AIPAC is not Orthodox. It's Reform and Conservative. Once you go secular, those ties weaken.) I won't be reading responses. This is just something for people to read and ponder.

I am not a Orthodox Rabbi, far from it. But we The Israelis and The Majority of The Jewish Nation must clarify this point once and for all. For the purpose of avoiding misunderstanding or doubt we repeat, as yet, once more time : WE are not afraid of Reform Judaism. The members of these communities should not "honour" themselves with such claims of Fear. We resent profoundly, and clearly reject Reform Judaism since its foundation in Germany two centuries ago. The Reform Rabbis know without any ambivalence why Reform Judaism will not be accepted, now or in the future. We are one nation and we know that Reform Judaism will fold back into mainstream Judaism.Am Israel Chai.

Ultra-Orthodox are the Reformed of today - having changed, added and reformed virtually every aspect of "Judaism" until it no longer bears any resemblance to the Torah of Moses. Ultra-Orthodox are no more authentic or legitimate than the Reformed or Conservative they vilify. Today's bearers of Torah are the kipot srugot, not either fringe.

without seculars there won't be Israel today, the orthodox would be still waiting for the machiach

which was intended to be eaten by a group of eight people..You then told her you had more people coming, asked her to add some water to the soup, diluting it. Syubsequently you told he to adulerate her good soup a bit more, she added more water What you now have ia pot of slop that isn't the soup you expected to dine on in the first place

and patrilineal decent. Insist on a kosher divorce for divorcing couples. Insist on kosher conversions. At least 50% of the member ship of any reform temple abroad is not Jewish.The reform do a lot of damaging things.Then maybe you will have something to discuss. We sont let you do here awhat you have done in North America.

How is it that Orthodox Jewry has no criticism of, and accepts within itself, Jews who are followers of a man who lived and died, and they call him the Messiah ?

It is Rabbi Rothenburg who seems to have something he is afraid of. The sad truth is that the probability of a Reform Jew having Jewish decendents is extremely small in North America. The innovations and modernizations that Reform have introduced over the years, have not produced vibrant dedicated Jews in any quantity. In North America we see the steady erosion of Yiddishkeit within the Reform community. The changes that Reform have made appear to appeal to a small minority and produce indifference in the majority. Now, why do we want to promote this system which does not work. On the Orthodox side there is plenty of work to be done to remove destructive politics, to make Orthodoxy palatable to the non-practising and to appeal to those like me on the fringes of Orthodoxy. We dont need the Reform Movement. It is not helping the cause of Jewish continuity!

We all need to be grateful to the Jewish religion for survival of Jews in the period when everybody in the world was religious, until about 150 years ago. Today, 25% of people in the world live without accepting religion as relevant and many Israelis are among them, and for good reasons. Israel is a state that continues our cultural development. Jewish religion is a private matter, for people like you. Do whatever you want with it and leave the rest of us alone. You and I are not the same people anyhow, so what are you claiming?

Many of us remember a time - until just recently - that the Reform movement in the U.S. had absolutely nothing to do with the state of Israel. There were no Israeli flags in the temple, no visits to Israel and no contributions to the State of Israel. That the reform movement now embraces the State of Israel can only be viewed as a failure of their past strategy

I would never discount the great bravery of the seculars who instead of waiting endlessly for "redemption", took up arms and redeemed themselves. I have the utmost love and appreciation for all Jews that contribute to our nationhood. However, I just made the point that it was the stubbornly religious Jews that kept us alive as a people when millions of less devout Jews were assimilating into oblivion. Just giving credit where credit is due.

I don't know where you get your stats from, but most people believe in God. Staunch atheists are a minority in the world, and especially in Israel. Having said that, religion is more than believing in God, and I don't seek to force my beliefs on anyone. The level of a persons religiosity is indeed a private matter, but there is an intersection of culture and religion where we can all meet for discussion while respecting each others beliefs. Reform Jews don't fit into the picture at all. They've created a half-ass version of Judaism, which is neither rooted in faith nor nationhood. Secular Israelis are at least proud of their nationhood, while reform have been non-Zionist or anti-Zionist until very recently.. now they want a seat at the table in Israel. Sorry, but Israelis know a fraud when they see one and the Reform movement is a huge fraud.

You can't have a religion and then change the laws when you don't like the existing ones because they don't fit in with your modern lifestyle or it goes anti feminist values etc. Individuals can take a choice to break laws. but thats a personal choice its not saying we are going to change the laws officially which is what reform do. If I decide my car at 100mph I am breaking the speed limit but the speeding laws stay the same. I can't say to all my friends the current speed limits are to low because I like to drive fast so I am changing the law so 100mph will be the new limit. Its a shame Jews don't have as much respect for their religion as Muslims have for theirs because if they did then there wouldn't be reform or all the other breakaway sects who are the greatest threats to the religions survival.

Don't judge all orthodox by the standards of radical haredi, don't even judge all haredi by the standards of the radicals. Most orthodox Jews are waiting for the Moshiach but at the same time they know God helps those who help themselves and they can't just sit back when they are in trouble and say Moshaich where are you I need you now. The Chabad haredi movement they are very big on waiting for the Moshaicah but they serve in the army in combat units. There are a few nuts who are convinced that if they just pray for the Moshiach thats all they need to do but the majority know that you need to live your life as though he is not coming but also pray as well let God know you want him sent soon. When groups like Chabad believe the Rebbe is the messiah they don't mean that man with his physical body, they believe his soul but the man was at least the last time that soul was on this earth. Its also a fact that the Rebbe was a very intelligent and good man who met with and was respected by many world leaders.

Whether you want it or not, you are adding to the splinting. I have as much attachment to Orthodox as to Reform Judaism, but see the Jewish life here: only Reform is capturing the minds, before young Jews migrate further out -- to Unitarian churches and beyond. At least, there is some point to stop and consiuder the options, the Reform point. Orthodox Judaism offers nothing to young Jewish minds.

You're afraid!!

Please don't play that game. Its too easy!! Seculars learned nothing from the holocoust. Simply put, you cant take the ghetto out of the Jew, even though you might take the Jew out of the ghetto! Now run home, and apologize to for living to your good neighbors in Gaza!!

It seems that none of those who attack Reform have any problem with Conservative as it's not mentioned.

is a completely subverted form of judaism. theres no integrity to it, not spine to it, It is like a person with no structure, no bones. it is not recognizable

Excellent op ed. During a visit to a Reform synagogue a few years ago, our local Israeli Consul General when pressed on this issue remarked that Israel could learn a great deal from diaspora Jews, and from the US in particular. It's difficult to imagine alliyah to a country where it would be hard to be a Jew, the way I've done it for over 50 years of deep involvement. Here the Orthodox have to attract followers by example, they don't have the automatic right to decide what is kosher and what is not.

Interesting, You say that Chabad do not consider The Rebbe to be the Mashiach, but his soul. Then why do they put up posters everywhere with his picture and the words MELECH MASHIACH - Messiah King, There have been attacks in Israel on Jews who believe that Jesus is the Messiah. I consider Chabad to be no different from the Jews for Jesus. Chabad is tolerated by Orthodox Jewry because it is so big and powerful.

Any person born to a Jewish mother is a Jew without regard to which stream of Judaism, if any is followed. The different streams of Judaism represent different approaches and interpretations to ritual &Jewish practice. as well as observance of Torah. No single stream of religion really knows what is required in the way of religious practice. We must all be tolerant of each other. Furthermore, Israel is a democracy and as such everyone has the right to practice or not practice religion as he sees fit. As Benjamin Franklin said "We must all hang together or we will hang separably" . To survive we must put an end to this interdenominational fighting.

The only true Jew, in God's eyes, is one who has a circumsized heart...spirit towards God's only way of redemption: through sacrifice of his Son on the Cross-of-Calvary. The many unsaved Jews are bound by the Law; thus, will die by that Law. Religion does not save one, because no one can live a righteous enough life to please God; trying keeping the Ten Commandments--you can't; thus, it shows that man is unable to keep the Law. If guilty in one...God says you're guilty in all. The Law doesn't save; it only shows man's eternal sin. There is only one way: that is through God's grace...through the sacrificial blood shed by his Son on that Cross that offers, to all, redemption...who will come to its saving knowledge of grace (unmerited favor). Man can't save himself; only Jesus Christ, and what he did, can. It's called justification by faith alone, and not of works. Man will never be good enough, unless he's clothed with the righteousness of God's only Son--period! I pray for the Jews...that they will finally recognize their Messiah who came to them 2000-years ago; He is coming again--soon! God bless, Israel and his Jerusalem! A Christian Zionist

with the crap I see different rabbis state, many are spouting hate... It is hard to respect them after seeing that.... not to mention this idiotic tradition of wearing black and even fur hats.... wtf.... we are in the desert now not in galut..... where in torah does it say wear black hats? tradition needs reform in my humble opinion

the truth: there were no separate facilities in auschwitz for "more religious" or "less religious" jews. the lies: that some jews are "not jewish", that a bigger beard is more jewish, that the reform (or any other victims) caused the holocaust, the orthodox "saved" judaism. moshe rabbeinu himself did not dare to exclude a single Jew from am yisrael - so how dare these lesser lights of our days try to exclude millions? the beit hamikdash was destroyed by sin'at hinam.

Orthodox Jews claim Jews are a race, thus look askance at non-Orthodox conversions or Jews in otherstreams.In fact, studies show most Jews are a sub-race, with genes going back to the ancient Israelites. 3,000 years ago, Jews did not wear black hats, etc. "What isa Jew" should be the book on efery rabbis desk and required reading. Mein Kampf, which Hitler wrote was required reading in Germany. It also defined we Jews as a race (even if converted away). Until Judiasm has some definition (even in Israel) we will continueto lose adherents @ 30,000 year. and shun those who want to be Jews. We all have the same concept of G-d and what G-d is NOT. Whether Reform 2m in the USA, Orthdox 2m in the USA or Conservative (1.5m), we are all in the sme bowl of chicken soup,like itornot. Ask any non-Jew to define what is a Jew and whom for another answer. The Taliban use Jewish stars for targets. Hamas fires rockets towards Jerusalem AND Tel Aviv. Are the Orthodox any more or less safe than the secular? Come the final Jihad, our enemies will not discriminate. Get it.