Letter to my haredi brothers
Izhar Oplatka
Published: 03.04.13, 10:37
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1. Amen! (end)
Igor ,   Germany   (04.03.13)
2. And what about the Arabs?
Lila ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (04.03.13)
Funny thing about you leftist seculars. You never mention the fact that Arab citizens of Israel don't serve their country. Nor are they loyal to it. And many hate the Jews almost as much as you do.
3. The arabs have nothing to do with the haredim problems...
Ze'ev   (04.03.13)
That are different stories! Needing different solutions!
4. #2: So what's your point? Are you saying
Runner1983 ,   USA   (04.03.13)
the Haredim should get a free pass because you claim that Arabs do?
5. #2 because the Haredim are fellow Jews
Vlad   (04.03.13)
Many of them serve loyally in the IDF regardless, and they are increasingly integrating into the workforce. With many exceptions, the Arabs, however, are beyond hope. It all comes down to this. At the end of the day, Haredim identify as Jews, and the Arabs as "Palestinians".
6. Haredim and Arabs
Dror ,   Emeq Yizrael, Israel   (04.03.13)
I would consider myself part of the National Religious camp and as a lover of the Land of Israel and of the Jewish people as a whole. Every argument and claim in this article is legitimate and correct. Enough is enough. The Christian Arabs that want to do national service should be encouraged as much as possible to do so. The Haredim have no more excuses, we are not in 18th century Poland and Ukraine anymore. THAT WORLD IS DEAD!! and good riddnace to that galus called Europe, get your mind out of there. It died a long time ago... If you cannot accept that the Jewish people have returned to Israel to their ancient homeland to END THE GALUS !!! to live as a free people than go back to the Godamn Galus in Europe.. do not bring it here.... WORK and study Torah stop being parasites.
7. Uninformed "Choice" is not free will; education a MUST
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   netzarim.co.il   (04.03.13)
They have not "chosen" to be Ultra-Orthodox (Haredi), their ignorance has kept them in it. If they want to CHOOSE to be Ultra-Orthodox (Haredi), fine... to make that choice, they must get a well-rounded -- not selective and censored -- education, learn all of the pertinent facts, cons as well as pros, and make an informed and intelligent choice. Some have done that; and with those I have no problem with their choice as long as they have no problem being tolerant of my, and other Jews', free choice.
8. Hateful re #2
Robert Haymond ,   Tekoa, Israel   (04.03.13)
There is nothing hateful about Mr. Oplatka's article, Lilly, unless you find it "hateful" when rather benign changes to the Charedi system in Israel is indicated. Opinions like yours only serve to reinforce negative views about Charedim. If you go back to the Baal Shem Tov, his disciples and the central European countries, you will find that even the rabbis worked, including the Charedim, in addition to carrying out their rabbinical duties. Only in Israel since the founding of our state have the Charedim insisted on such abundant special privileges which the rest of us lack. In short, the Charedim have been spoiled and the recent outcry on your part, re-iterated by many, are the shouts of spoiled children required to grow up and take on social responsibility. In fact, I found the author rather understanding of the situation vis a vis the Charedim. You can contribute to the state and take on normal social responsibilities while still studying just as your forebears did. As to the Israeli Arabs, you are right, of course. But this step, the one of requiring some social integration of the Charedi population, is taking precedence. Once this integration is well under way, then the next step will be to require the Arab population to become responsible members of the nation. Again, you do sound like a child, like one sibling in a family crying out "not fair" when required to complete a task when his brother or sister is not asked. As a result, the effectiveness of your comment is both decreased and minimized.
9. @#2
Nathan ,   Israel/USA   (04.03.13)
Lila, 1. I do not think that the author hates Jews. You really need to get over the view that anyone who says the Ultr-Orthodox should work and not get hand outs means they are leftists who hate Jews. 2. We (the non extremists of this country) are equally appalled at the way Many Arab Israelis do not perform any national service and the , shall we say, negative light in which they hold Jewish Israelis. At the moment though, we are discussing the issue of the Ultra Orthodox not the Arabs.
10. Abolish The Draft and See
Abolish The Draft ,   Israel   (04.03.13)
how many secular from Tel Aviv and Rishon sign up for service! None! Secular only join the army because they are forced too. Also, go look at the numbers, religious pay for education, secular get it free. And yes, Ben Gurion's plan was to make all the religious secular! Stop hating and start learning about religious people, you will be amazed to see that they are actually normal, wealthy and much happier than secular.
11. Many seculars want the Haredim gone totally
jrebecca ,   modiin   (04.03.13)
They dont like being reminded that being Jewish means more than making a lot of money and wielding a lot of power. Many seculars are intimidated by Haredim and Orthodox Jews , who, unintentionally, act as their conscience.
12. Integration is in all of our interest!
Z Lando ,   Tekoa, Israel   (04.03.13)
A well written article which is plainly saying what many young Hareidim already know: They have been lied to. It is in their interest to integrate into Israel society. They do NOT have to make cultural changes. This integration is not only good for them - but for our society and our economy in general. Secular society must accept and help this process as much as possible.
13. Bunch of B S
Gill ,   Montreal   (04.03.13)
All you secular Jews really think that Haredim live On a measly 2000 Shekels offered by the government. What a joke. You see Haredim Drive into Israel's economy tons of donations coming from various Wealthy religious Donators. And trust me you need them more than they need you
14. Mr. Oplatka
E. ,   Jerusalem   (04.03.13)
The only reason why there is a jewish country and why you have a right to be here is because our covenant sealed on mount Sinai. And thanks to the haredim we, as a nation, still can keep the thora. For you being ''free and modern'' means going against the thora. It's the foolish, short-sighted, ''academic'', secular leftist types like you who are the REAL problem in our JEWISH country. And these words come from a mother of a religous 18-year old tzanchanim-soldier.
15. Facts
Mark ,   Israel   (04.03.13)
You are entitled to whatever opinion you want. I would just love to see an actual published fact about how much they really receive, and how that is broken down. For example, I know that the huge stipend kollel guys receive is between 700 nis and 800 nis per month. Sounds like a lot, but remember that they are paying for most of their kids' education privately. Just give us some bank of israel statistics or something like that, instead of quoting some magazine whose accuracy i really question.
16. Charidi Brothers - Millions don't pay taxes
Norma ,   Israel   (04.03.13)
I agree with Lila! What about our Israeli Citizen's that don't pay taxes...but receive all the benefits? like our Israeli-Arab-Muslim + Citizens!... What about the free electric to Gaza, millions of shekels!... I guess, Ynet is putting a blind eye to it like all the leftist media does but we the public aren't ignorant of your favoritism. Ynet, you are fulling no one! The writer is merely a puppet on your team. Next time publish an article with intelligence instead a bias one, do you think you can handle it?
17. @ #2 If only the Haredi would work like the Arabs!!!
Jay ,   Israel   (04.03.13)
Jewish (non-haredi) male employment rate: 82% Arab Male: 74%, Haredi: 40% Thats what about Arabs. I don't want Haredim in the Army I just want them to pay their own way and stop leeching off the general public. I would be very happy with the exact same conditions as the Arabs (especially the Druze who do go to the Army). Becareful what you wish for, because most of us would be happy if Haredim would participate at the same level as the Arabs. My source for the statistics is the report from the state of Israel: :תקציב המדינה הצעה לשנות הכספים 2012- 2011: Look it up.
18. to Yitzhar and the seculars
Larry ,   Los Angeles   (04.03.13)
I am a charadi man with a professional degree. I have lived and worked in Israel for over 30 years. Never have I seen such anti Jewish discrimination as I have seen and been subject to here. I worked in the IDF, I worked in the city, I worked for private companies and I worked for contractors and I even had my own business. In every place, I had to fight against those who hated me only because of my beard and kippa. I could tell you such horror stories that you would not believe, yet they happened to me here by Jews who simply hated me because I am observant. When you say you want the religious to join the work force, do you really know what you are saying? It is hard especially when there are brainless people who do not realize that we need legislation to outlaw religious discrimination. Let's get it straight. If there were more acceptance that, yes, we are religious, and no, we don't want to eat trief, work on the Shabbat, or look at porno pictures, we just would like to earn a living but in a work place to where we can enter and not be the butt of every nasty joke. So, Mr. Yizhar, let's take the blame and share it. True, it is better to sit and learn all day, but it is sometimes necessary to work, but not in a anti Jewish workplace that wants some one who eats trief, works on the Shabbat and enjoys a small bit of porno at work.
19. An excellent and well balanced article.
A Jerusalemite ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (04.03.13)
The presentation is fair and balanced. Both sides are shown. It is about time that we require all of our citizens to share equally in the burden. The Haridim can and should both work and study as did all of our forefathers. The Arabs have a different kind of problem. We can't force them to Chas Ve' Halila fight their brothers [literally!], but they can do national service - as can also the Haridim. Let the Haridim live as they please - and leave us alone to do the same! Just share the burden of keeping the State alive and well, is all we are asking of them.
20. Arguments against Seculars
Dror ,   Emeq Yizrael, Israel   (04.03.13)
This holier than thow reactionary argument against non religious seculars does not hold water anymore. The population of Israel, let me remind you, is composed of a majority of Middle eastern and North African Jews that are for the most part traditional masorti believers that are less covetous of money and material success than the neo pagan seculars. The G-dless seculars are begining to come around as well, so this argument of protecting Israel by being the only faithful Jews is a bunch of BS. Work and Torah are not in contradiction, infact one is not complete without the other. Whatever imagined arguments the charedi makeup to keep their game going will not work. I agree that we should have a small but respectable sized group of truly dedicated spiritual scholars and students as MK Bennet proposed. App. 2000 students is enough. Ofcourse they have a set time as students and scholar whereby they exit the Yeshivas and Kolels for others to take their place and they in turn enter the workforce.
21. bunch of BS
amos ,   israel   (04.03.13)
No #13 1) The haredim do not much get donations as you say but work under the table.. 2). they squize every penny from the Israeli government they can. 3). They refuse to help to keep the Israeli state in the army , national service and work . They are total parasites, 4) They are worse then the arabs who do not squize the government and work even though pay little tax. 5).The B.S is this article which preaches to the converted and assume that the haredim read papers like ynet.
22. Mr. Oplatka
Rafi ,   Jerusalem, Israeel   (04.03.13)
I was astonished to read your piece. I was not expecting a person of your standing and experience to write so many inaccuracies and fallacies (in particular the obscenely grotesque statement that a Haredi family receives 6000 shekel from the government, and I don't care where you claim to have picked it up.) The only point I wish to make is this: As a Haredi (I happen to have a full time job in case someone is interested) I was quite offended by your demeaning tone and content. You seem to think that someone made the choice for me to think and do what I do, that someone has been keeping me in a norrow and restricted world (to use your words). If you really wish to engage in some kind of dialogue then begin first by assuming a respectful demeanor. You may rewrite your article with a different tone and then perhaps I will take it more seriously.
23. Trying To Bully The Nation
Ariel ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim   (04.03.13)
B”H – I would like to remind this “author”, Prof. Izhar Oplatka, that the salary he clears into his bank account every month, year after year, is provided by the tax payers, and that therefore he himself is a tax consumer, not a tax payer. Not only. The bulk of the budget of his T.A. University, the buildings, the maintenance, the lighting, the heating, the air-conditioning, the technical and administrative as well as the academic staff in there, is also provided by taxpayers’ money. Now, what this “author” seem to suggest, that all this is alright, it is OK for the tax payer to finance, because, I figure, he likes the activity of T.A. University, its departments and labs. What tax payers should not finance, according to this “author”, are only activities he does not appreciate, like those of the religious per say. The problem with this world-view you see is that, and let me not get into the fundamental what is true and what is false, what is right and what is wrong argument; the problem with this world-view is that it is not even supported by this “author’s” own set of “democratic” values: More than half of this country’s population declares itself religious or traditional. So, maybe an authentically democratic State should start to withhold the financing of one-way institutions like T.A. University or the salaries of people like this “author”, bully Izhar Oplatka. For counter-censorship purposes let me clarify that the term “bully” I don’t mean to offend, but technically: To describe someone who wants to impose his own way on others, not because it is better or in any way justified, but because it’s his.
24. Your article abt haredim
Dotan ,   Canada   (04.03.13)
Congratulation. I am still an Israeli who fought 4 wars and has relatives -even a Rabi- who was Zahal officer. But the degree of exploiting the resources for which the harediim did not work or sacrifice, disgusted me and others. Maybe some ALL MIGHTY reasoning will come through for those people and enlighten them what it means to be BAAREX HAKODESH. SHALOM
25. To My Secular Brothers
A.R. ,   Bne Brak   (04.03.13)
The author is correct; it is time to integrate into society. Indeed, it is time for the seculars to integrate into Jewish society built on authentic time tested Torah values. Stop shirking your responsibility as a Jew and share in the burden incumbent on every Jew to keep Torah and mitvot. Torah learning and mitvot observance are not optional; just like paying taxes and contributing to the national defense are not optional. Start learning what the Torah really wants for us and to your amazement you will find a world of incredible wisdom, depth, and insight in direct contradiction to what you read in the newspapers. Working Hareidi
26. Israelis and national service
Dik ,   Spijkenisse   (04.03.13)
I am a great friend of Israel and have visited the nation with my wife and friends in a large group from Holland in 2006. In my vieuw any Israeli citizen has a duty to serve the country in the defence. A tiny country surrounded by hostile countries, many of them seeking her destruction (remember numerous wars) needs all able young people. I served in the Dutch Navy 2 yrs in the '50th during the times of the cold war between US/SU. Since the fall of communism, Dutch boys do not have military service. Only volunteers now. We pray for the Peace of Jerusalem, Shalom from Holland
27. Holocaust survivors short of food v Haridim
George Murphy ,   USA   (04.03.13)
Two ynet articles on the same day - one laments the situation of poor Holocaust survivors, then this one highlights Israels financial support for non-working Haridim. Strange national priorities.
28. Leftist self-hating Jews
Lila ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (04.03.13)
Such venom towards your own people and nothing directed to your real enemies who also do NOT serve their country. That doesn't bother the left. A whole segment of society that doesn't go to the army, that doesn't do national service, and you just don't want to see if because of your blind hatred of Haredim. Need a wheelchair? Don't go to Yad Sara -haredi. Need a food basket or meal at a soup kitchen? Don't ask Yad Ezra v'Shulamit, Ichlu Re'em, Carmei Ha'Ir - the list goes on and on - haredi. Advice and funding in a serious medical crisis? Don't call Rav Firer of Ezra U'Marpeh - haredi. You're just a bunch of haters and bigots who can't see the good in the haredim. And no, I'm not haredi.
29. The integration of the Haredim in Judaic society...
Mark Holland ,   New York, USA   (04.03.13)
...will take place the same day swines take flight, a four lane camel highway opens through the eye of a needle, and a successful snowball franchise opens down in Christian H*ll.
30. A.R., Bne Brak #25: Two important questions.
Steve   (04.03.13)
Please answer these two questions. If you do not answer them, can I safely assume your answer would be "YES" to both? You wrote to seculars: "Stop shirking your responsibility as a Jew and share in the burden incumbent on every Jew to keep Torah and mitvot. 1) There are thousands of religious Zionists in Israel; many of these Torah-observant Jews are living in faith in Judea and Samaria according to the commandments and teachings of our ancient prophets. Are these religious Jews sharing in the burden incumbent on every Jew to keep Torah and mitzvot in your view? 2) The author claims you studied in an educational system which emphasized on many occasions the foreignness of the country you live in. Is this true? Does Haredi educational system emphasize on many occasions the foreignness of the land of Israel today?
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