Opinion  Ariana Melamed
Schulz is closer to Herzl's vision than Bennett
Ariana Melamed
Published: 13.02.14, 14:54
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
46 Talkbacks for this article
1. Very disturbing article
Anshel ,   Canada   (02.13.14)
Every reasonable Jew knows what the Palestinian Arabs will say about Israel; lies, distortion, propaganda, we don't a German to repeat those lies in the Knesset! It is an insult to an injury!
2. Only Half true
Andi ,   Israel   (02.13.14)
Anyone who mentions the Gaza situation without mentioning Egypt's role is deliberately misleading. Also the water issue as the writer says is very complicated and consumption depends alot on life style. Israeli Arabs consume far more than the West Bank Arabs for instance. Also despite millions in aid the PA has made not effort to address the enormous leakage and water consequently wasted from its water system.
3. did she know who was Herzl this Leftist ? pathetic op-ed
(02.13.14)
4. Remember one thing.
Larry ,   Or Yehuda   (02.13.14)
Israel does not need to give Gaza anything, including water. Also remember that Gaza is not under seige by Israel, the border to Egypt can be opened if they stop killing Egyptians! Why should Israel open the borders to a terrorist regime?
5. Great article!
Eric ,   Toronto   (02.13.14)
Naftali Bennett is an embarassment for Israel. It's time for Bibi to kick him out of the coalition and unite with Herzog.
6. Who's this fellow by the name Ariana Melamed?
Observer 1 ,   Here & There   (02.13.14)
Let assume, for the sake of argument, that Bayit Yehudi members failed to produce statistics, you Ariana Melamed the crusader, you that always think you know better, tell me: what stopped you from doing so? Or shall I understand that you of all people do not know what you are talking about? Just try to convince with hardcore facts and stats. That's all I expect from you. If you can't, then, shove it up yours. Or better, go live in Gaza, for all I care.
7. Insipid article
Devorah   (02.13.14)
Herzl was not able to predict the future in a post-Shoah Israel, and the fact that he wrote in German is irrelevant. Make a "gesture" to the "palestinians?" Israel has made numerous gestures (releasing murderers and terrorists, leaving Gaza, etc.), and the gratitude for them has been rockets and missiles. Ariana, perhaps you would be more comfortable living among our enemies since you are such an apologist for them.
8. the "arab narrative"
tom ,   toronto, canada   (02.13.14)
is it possible that a major speech, on an official state visit, would not be reviewed and vetted, many times over? to repeat arab lies in a speech to the knesset, "without checking the facts", is unfortunately too typical of the entire eu policy towards israel. water is the plo's latest libel against israel, and the eu threw its political support behind them, "without checking the facts". do they also fail to "check their facts" on any other issues of foreign policy? it was summarized, appropriately, in one word, "liar".
9. Israel should make a gesture
Rod ,   Fargo N.Dakota   (02.13.14)
They have released Hundreds of Philistine prisoners murderers.2 Herzl lived before the Holocaust
10. Hertzel also mentioned Ugandah
ghostq   (02.13.14)
as the capital for jews, you realy think Israelies should go there. stupid article
11. Leftism
(02.13.14)
With the money that Hamas spent on attacking Israel since Sharon ethnically cleansed Gush Katif of Jews, they could have built a desalination plant and have unlimited water. The fact that the Leftists were well prepared to use Schultz' lie to attack Israel implies that Schultz and the Israeli Left are part of Kerry's "master plan" to force Israel to suicidal concessions.
12. Well ....
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (02.13.14)
"The European Parliament president said (in German) that a young Palestinian had asked him why the Israelis in the territories can use 70 cubic meters of water while the Palestinians can only use 17." First of all, it is very nervy, addressing the Knesset in German. Secondly, the answer to the question ALLEGEDLY asked should be easy enough for a German to understand. It was right and fair for the Allied troops in Germany not to be subject to rationing (they weren't), and just as right and fair for the German civilian population to be forced to subsist on starvation rations (they were). The vanquished are the vanquished. Sucks to start -- and lose -- a war, but that does not render the vanquished immune from the consequences of war. Was that supposed to be a weighty philosophical question on the part of Schulz? Because it fell considerably short of the mark. One wonders when Schulz had time to encounter and speak to a "Palestinian" youth. And one further wonders -- even assuming that this "Palestinian" lad exists outside of Schulz's imagination -- why Schulz is so ready to believe the "facts," as stated by someone who studies geography by looking at maps that do not include the State of Israel. And that is the least of the lies told to "Palestinian" schoolchildren. Schulz is a liar, and Bennett acted appropriately. How dare a German address the Knesset in German, anyway? And did this "Palestinian" youth address Mr. Schulz in German, or in Arabic? The fact that Schulz lied is not of any moment. The content of the lie -- now THAT is where you can have fun.
13. all about presentation.
charles   (02.13.14)
the writer of this article is one sided. of course if you are not objective, the communists & gerans of the 20th century had a lot of bones to pick with the jews, just as the palestinians have abones to pick with the israelis. but is this thhe oint? come on!!! does the write of this artcle know history & journalism? i think not.
14. Dreams
Gershon ,   London UK   (02.13.14)
Ms Melamed is quite mischievous in depicting Herzl's "Altneuland" as the benchmark of zionist expression. Herzl was not the only one who dreamed of co-existence with the arabs - everyone did! Everyone that is except most of the arabs themselves! Apart from one or two enlightened leaders (who were murdered by their arab compatriots) the only arabs attempting to coexist are Israel's own arab citizens who know full well how much better they are off in an affluent and free democratic Israel. Almost all other arabs/palestinians want us out of eretz yisrael or dead! Just look at PMW (Palestininian Media Watch) So how can she pretend that such co-existence is some sort of a desirable and achievable aim when she knows the arabs are clearly at war with us over this land - water or no water. She knows Israel has been doling out "confidence building measures" in the quest for peaceful co-existence for decades without the slightest reciprococity
15. ariana-the facts please
geroge   (02.13.14)
when senior officials of any place throw figures around, they should check them first cause oftern they are inaccurate. So shultz was wrong and so are you. Secondly israel has given enough gestures;its time for the palestinians to make gestures. Don't you understand that or are you so weak that you would do anything to forge a phony peace. lastly, the arabs are not the swiss. They cannot live with non moslems in a federation or intimate trading association. Oslo, gaza withdrawal, lebanon withdrawal, prisoner reoffending rates, are clear. I now understand why so many did not run to the forests like bielski in world warll, because of people like ariana, herzog, livni, peres, haber, weaklings in the extreme.
16. Reality is water from the sea, ready for desalination.
Michael ,   California, USA   (02.13.14)
Minister Bennett has a short fuse, but the real issue is to make peace and move on with infrastructure projects that will benefit the entire region. Theodor Hertzl was closer to needed reality than Bennett is, that's for sure. Water desalination from the Mediterranean Sea is awaiting a peaceful move. Without peace, people will be arguing about languages, history, religion, genes, holy walls and all the other irrelevant crap. Get real and start living like the modern world, both in Israel and Palestine.
17. Word choice matters
Ronda ,   USA   (02.13.14)
Gaza is not under siege by Israel and to say this is an insult to all Israelis and especially those who forcibly gave up their homes in Gaza. Technically siege is a military term that means the territory is surrounded and deprived of essentials w/purpose of forcing surrender.
18. Ariana lied in the title of this article
please publish this   (02.13.14)
No, Bennet was not calling Shultz a liar because he was "claiming Gaza siege is creating distress". Bennet claimed Schultz told lies because his water figures were lies, and because Schultz talked about Gaza siege without a mention to the fact that Gaza is a hostile terror entity firing rockets into Israel. This has nothing to do to Herzl or to Ideology. This is all about lying above the podium in front of the Israeli Parliament.
19. The Allied bombings of German cities created distress.
Steve Klein   (02.13.14)
Didn't it? Nearly one million German civilians were incinerated during these nightly USAF and RAF bombings. But that is not all. During Germany's nearly 900 day "Siege of Leningrad" (WWII) between one and two million Russians were slaughtered. Most starved to death during the siege, eating cats, dogs, leaves, anything. This is the way Germany waged her several wars of aggression against whole cities, besieging them, bombing them, starving whole populations to death. Then there were the Germany's and Europe's Jews. The charter of the government Palestinians elected to govern them (January 2006) states: "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." The Palestinians are engaged in a war of annihilation against Israel's Jews. Bayit Yehudi is right. It takes incredible chutzpah for a German politician (the son of German parents) to lecture the Jewish people about matters of war and peace. Mr. Schulz should exhibit more humility.
20. hartzel
ytzchk Levi ,   Israel   (02.13.14)
hartzel barley understand the German's at that time, and he know nothing about the Arab's, and yes he was a dreamer, this utopian views have cost the jews millions of life's, it's time the liberal left wake up and stop dreaming our lives away
21. #2 only 1/4 true
Gabor ,   Budapest, Hungary   (02.13.14)
Mentioning Gaza without the role of Egypt and without the role of Hamas and the rockets is pure propaganda against Israel. And a high rank politician should not quote a young Palestinian without checking the facts because that is also just a pure propaganda against Israel.
22. What a load of apologist clap-trap.
Shlomo   (02.13.14)
Nice try. Martin Schulz had no right to make the kind of comments he did - and not expect controversy and furore. As the author has pointed out twice in her article - that Schulz "... had not checked his facts". But attempts to use this incredibly lame argument to justify Schulz's comments as not lies but facts - of some kind (for some conjured reason or another). This is the justification to blurt inane comments in what was an overt public embrace of the Palestinian narrative of unrelenting victimhood. Yes, if there is "distress" caused by the Gaza Siege - and that is "not a lie". Then also what is true is that it is a self-induced state of distress. The Palestinians own behaviour is most definitely the root cause why Israel spends billions on security measures. This is the problem; not whether the utterances were 'lies' or not. It what is actually causing the situation to be - Mr Schulz and Ms Melamed have a lot of trouble understanding basic concepts. A truly pathetic outlook - Ms Melamed will not have a country to live in if her style of "deep thinking" ever gets traction. She hasn't realised that one concession with empty return leads to another worthless compromise until you are 'bargained' out of existence. She does write very nicely though.
23. Ariana Melamed
winston ,   NY, USa   (02.13.14)
Observer Here and There: Insults not welcome. Ms Melamed, as I see it, is advocating flexibility and reasonableness in dealing with our adversaries, friends and foes. Bennett's walkout was a cheap shot.
24. Very intellectual text! Sadly,not all reader can understand!
(02.13.14)
25. @4 So it means Israel is just as good or bad as Egypt?!
EU   (02.13.14)
26. over reaction to "good" effect
Mike ,   Tel Aviv   (02.13.14)
wow people are super over reacting. no checks the facts and everyone has an opinion! For those of you who cannot see that there is distress in Gaza - you are either blind or stupid. It is not a stretch of the imagination. In regards to the water "allottment" - it seems that everyone took it as "if the Pal gets less water it is the Evil Israeli being evil..." what if for one second we stop being perpetually the victim..and accept that in the city areas - Jews on AVERAGE daily use approx 170 L and the Pals in the city use approx 100L. Is 170 larger than 100? yes. does the statement say more than that fact? it didn't until Bennett et aliud got their panties in a bunch.... They wanted to make waves - and so they did.... :(
27. Schulz did lie.
Jake   (02.13.14)
Looking at Schulz’s figures of 17 liters per Palestinian person for every 70 liters per Israeli person, his data would imply that Israelis are each receiving about 4.12 times more water than are Palestinians. An examination of the Water Authority’s data, however, indicates that Israelis are each receiving about 1.7 times more water than are Palestinians, a number that has decreased further today, according to the authority.
28. The Arabs Despised the Jews
Zechariah   (02.13.14)
Herzyls book was a Utopia not related to to the Base Reality of Humanity.Humanity Is tribal competitive loves war or gangs even in competition in. Sport as is almost always aggressive and spiteful.A few couples keep their Love and some are highly Wholesome Including Arabs who can be fine Human Beings but the Warrior Class dominates both in the Gentile and Pagan worlds .
29. Mike #26, you missed the point
Jake   (02.13.14)
The reality is vastly different than what Schulz tried to portray. Figures show Israelis consume 1.7 times more per capita than palestinians (in fact this has further decreased). Schulz’s figures claim Israelis are each receiving about 4.12 times more water than are palestinians, and this is simply false.
30. Those who have read Herzl's work also know...
Sam ,   NY, USA   (02.14.14)
that the Altneuland Herzl wrote about had a society in which Arabs were full contributors to the society and economy instead of trying to bring about Islamist societies and bringing harm to the civilians of the Arab, Jewish, and other sectors of society.
Next talkbacks
Back to article