Jewish Scene
Rabbi: Cleanse country of Arabs
Kobi Nahshoni
Published: 27.11.07, 10:36
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121. 2nd response to Charles-Petah Tikva nr 116
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.28.07)
Let me continue: Even if Israel would expel the Arab population and retake or reconquer the land of Israel, we are not talking about a Mongolian style conquest, we are still dealing with one of the smallest real estates on this planet. We are not messengers, diplomats or representatives from other nations holding their flags on alien soil - we are the historical owners and the indigineous people of Israel - we are not "imperialists" or "colonialists" - we are the home dwellers and owners that came back. Even if we assume that Arabs will establish a 23 rd state of their own on our expense on hills of Judea and Samaria, the Arabs still can't provide themselves with enough food, water or electricity. The Arabs of Gaza, Judea and Samaria are still alive because Israel keeps them alive - remember that. Then you might say: "Well, let Jordan and Egypt control Judea/Samaria and Gaza and give Jordanian passports and Egyptian passports to Arabs of Gaza, Judea and Samaria." I'm sorry. that's not gonna happen. Jordan and Egypt have no claims on Judea, Samaria and Gaza. And the purpose to the existence of the fictional "national identity" of the "Palestinians" was to annihilate Israel, not having an Arab state, so land for peace doesn't work and never worked and Arabs are attracted to attack Israel if Israel is perceived as "weak".
122. rabbi lior
albert ,   sandiego,ca.   (11.28.07)
Rabbi Lior is the messiah.His vision, if adhered to by Israel ,will ultimately lead to the destruction of Israel's ennemies(Hamas,Pals,Hezbollah,Syria,Iran,Saudi Arabia et all and bring about peace in the JEWISH STATE OF ISRAEL.
123. Alexander
charles ,   petach tikva   (11.28.07)
Comparing nazi germany's acts to their claim of their territory is not relevant . There is no connection between those facts . The modern Israeli history is well known to me . You have'nt to repeat it . You won't change my ideas , those , i repeat palestinians have the same right on those 8000 sq km , as i have to live in Petach Tikva and you in Herzlia . You did'nt answer on what i wrote . Do you want that your grandchildren will have to fight for those 8000 sq km ? do you think that the world will accept that we expulse those people ? do you think that we could resist international pressure ? Have you seen what happened to South Africa ? The same will happen to us if we follow your ideas and we have no gold or other materials . That's all , don't be blind .
124. To 108 To David Los Angeles
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.28.07)
Why is Rabbi Lior a disgrace? Because he doesn't want to die and becasue he demands that the Jewish/Israeli people deserve the same individual and national rights, freedom, liberty and integrity that France, Germany, Austria, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland, Russia, Poland, United Kingdom, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Turkey, China and Japan take for granted?
125. Yes, I want to fight for Israel...
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.28.07)
...and my children and grandchildren should fight for Israel - in words and actions, because if you don't fight for your rights, you wont have them. A person that doesn't want to fight doesn't want to live either. On the individual level, people always fight for their private rights, even in democracies, even in peace times. And I will repeat my standpoint: I don't agree with you and the Arabs have to leave because they threaten our existence and life is most important thing in this world - I hope you understand that. And giving away land to Arabs will make them believe that we are weak as they always have viewed concessions as weakness among cultures and nations. The conflict is not about land, it is about Israel's right to exist. The Arab-Israeli conflict has existed for 1400 years, since the birth of Islam, when it decided to persecute, discriminate, slaughter, enslave and kill Jews and Christians and other non Muslims. Jews and Christians are considered to be "second rate citizens" - dhimmi people, with second rate rights, paying money to the master and being treated like a slave or servant or pet. There were two Arab wars before 1967, meaning 1948 and 1956. Arabs ethnically cleansed Jews From Judea, Samaria and Gaza in 1948-49. There was no peace and Arabs established no state in Gaza,Judea and Samaria between 1948 and 1967. Why, if they love the land so much? I will not answer your stupid queston regarding "the world's opinion" as I already answered your question, and if you have bad memory, I recommend you to write down my words. Second, the EU already threatened to boycott Israel but EU companies and businesses said no - they want trade with Israel. Third, Israel alone stands for 15% of the world's trade within the field of high technology and Israel is the second most important high tech center of the world after Silicon Valley - California and Israel has the 2nd highest amount of companies noted on the Nasdaq. And Israel is either the 2nd or 3rd largest exporter of weapons and military equipment to China and India - major players in international politics and economics. 70% of Americans are pro-Israeli, 1 billion Indians, 1,3 billion Chinese, 125 million Japanese, Vietnam, Thailand, southeastern Asian countries have nothing against Israel and many central American countries are pro-Israeli/pro-Jewish. Most Europeans don't give a damn - believe me, I was born and raised in Europe. You are not examining Israel's strategical importance despite its lack of size and you don't seem to examine the feelings of "world citizens" nor do you understand the correlation between cause and effect in the Arab-Israeli conflict, nor do you understand Arab culture, human psychology nor realpolitik. Boycott of Israel is terrible, but lives are more important than money and I don't believe that EU and the US will boycott Israel. On the contrary, the stronger and more successful and triumphant Israeli is, the more respect it gets in America, as Americans respect winners and strong people and individuals. If you are tired and you have no energy to fight for Israel, I will gladly keep you up. There is a correlation between Germany and "Pals" and territorial ownership, but you hate to admit that you are wrong, and you are wrong. Claiming that something is yours doesn't mean its yours. France belongs to France because they have a state there and it doesnt belong to the Germans even if the claim it. In the same way, Israel belongs to Israel, and not to "Pals". The same natural law applies to reality, facts and truth all over the world and there is no divine barrier separating Arabs of Judea, Gaza and Samaria from the reality of our world. And I will repeat my standpoint again: Living in the land doesn't make you an innocent lamb or Mother Teresa.
126. Land for peace.
Edward Anderson ,   Knoxville, USA   (11.28.07)
I am deeply concerned about Giving more land to the Palestinians. They have proven many times that they really have no desire for peace as long as Israel exists. I believe they should give up land to Israel !! Israel should expand back to the dimensions that were promised to Abraham. AMEN
127. Alexander
charles ,   petach tikva   (11.28.07)
I was also born , raised and lived for most of my life in Europe . You have'nt to tell me how their feelings towards Israel are , and they are not at all so positive . Lives are more important than money , yes . But if we are boycotted you will have no life nor money . No , you are wrong , if you want to fight , do it . You probably don't know what peace is . I know what war means , so i can certainly appreciate this word peace . I said it , giving them those 8000 sq km will maybe bring peace . Not giving them anything , will certainly not . They have also the right to live here , even if there was never a state here for them . No they did'nt proclaim a state from 48 to 67 , they were used as a ball in the hands of those opposing our state , of those who wanted our destruction . Now , much of the terrains where Jewish towns and places were build were , contrary as you claim , not bought by Israelis . What i will add , that with extremist as you are , nobody can come to an agreement . I'm certainly in the same way as you are , against giving them ירושלים , against giving them some places were quantities of Israelis live . You live in Herzlia , a quiet life , do you know how they live in Judea Samaria ? I was there some time ago , this is not a life . But i repeat it , they have the right to live here , they are doing it , many for a much longer time as most of the Israelis . How will you live without oil ? do you remember this short period when the arab states cutted this off to Europe [ 1973 ] ? I remember the sundays without cars . And this was only for a short period , and we received smaller quantities . Who will give us this that we need ? Who will accept to fly to BG airport ? who will let EL AL planes land ? Don't think that we , how great we are , are irreplaceable , they can find other silicon valleys , other arms suppliers . Did'nt we replace France by the USA after 67 ? And the same can be said of you : living in the land don't makes you the owner of it . That's your argument , not mine
128. Peace to me Charles is...
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.29.07)
...when the world and the Arabs recognize our equal rights, freedom and integrity as individuals and as a state and a nation among the nations, with a fully recognized patrimony and fully recognized historical and legal exclusive rights to the land of Israel, with an overwhelming Jewish majority, surrounded by Arab western democracies as peaceful as European states and USA and Canada, states that seek genuine peace and quiet and geuine recognition of your own rights - individual and national rights.
129. To Charles - regarding 1973 - oil boycott
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Isarel   (11.29.07)
Europeans and Americans have grown accustomed to raised oil prices, and not only Arabs sell oil, but also Americans, Canadians, British, Russians, Norwegians, Latin American states and African states sell oil. The Japanese distanced themselves to Israel for decades due to fear of Arab oil boycotts, but when the Japanese realized that oil can be bought from many countries and not only from Arab states, whereas Israeli high tech is a world leading technology, they decided to open commercial connections with Israel, as it suited their national interests and priorities. If Arabs threaten to withdraw oil deliveries, Israel and the West can threaten to withdraw high tech, air planes, weapons and car deliveries, and if necessary, put Israeli and/or other western military pressure on Arab states withdrawing oil deliveries. Pressure can be pressured. Is realpolitik "extremist"?
130. To Charles nr 127
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.29.07)
Arabs rejected land for peace 8 times and according to Jerusalem Summit, 70% of the Arabs of Judea and Samaria would consider to leave if given financial compensation. This doesn't suggest an Arab love or passion for Israel does it? Not handing over land and using force and harsh language against the Arab states wil signal to them that Israel will survive demographically and territorially and that Israel is strong. Insisting on creating western democracies in the Arab world fould further facilitate peace. I believe that you are an extremist repeating that Arabs have the right to Judea and Samaria because they live there. No they don't, because living in the land doesn't mean that you have legal and historical ties to the land. No European nation state would agree to give away its territory. My argument that I have the right to Israel, is not because I live in Israel, its because I am a Jew and a descendant to ancient Jews/Israelites and we had a kingdom here and therefore we have historical ties and rights here. You are misquoting me - on purpose. States can trade even if they are enemies - France and England did so for centuries. European companies and businesses are not interested in boycotting Israel and Israeli high tech is on the contrary world leading and few countries can produce and develop it. Boycotts are unpleasant but you are still alive. Placing "Pals" on our doorsteps, will send rockets into Tel Aviv, and then we are dead for sure.
131. Political philosophy regarding territorial ownership
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.29.07)
If we assume that all people all equal before the law, we also assume that they have equal rights - right? Now, when people lived in the state of nature, complete anarchy existed. When a farmer settled an empty land, a gang of rubbers or bandits could attack him, kill him or expel him, without anyone intervening. If he is still alive, it is his word against their word. No lawyers, jurists, politicians, authorities, soldiers, police officers, legal papers and documents would support him or defend him or protect him. Therefore, the only way to assure individual and national legal territorial ownership, is through the establishment of a government, a state, authorites, with jurisdiction and laws regulating life, safety, security, criminal matters, commercial matters, keeping of law and order and defense of territory. That is why states are needed and that is why we Jews own Israel, because we had a kingdom there thousands of years ago and reestablished a Jewish state of Israel in 1948, and because of our historical ties to Israel, we own Israel, including Judea and Samaria and Gaza and that is why Arabs do not own Israel, Judea, Samaria and Gaza, because they never had a state nor have a state today nor bought the land. Much of the modern law that you Charles take for granted, originate from Roman law, Jewish law of ancient times, Germanic laws of Europe during medieval times and Anglosaxon laws of England. Ever heard of Magna Charta? It is still relevant to the UK hundreds of years later. You might argue: "Well, the perception of states and laws are just European notions." Wrong! Laws and regulations existed for thousands of years in Israel, China, India, Persia, Arab Caliphate, Roman Empire, Greeks, Egyptians, Sumerians, Babylonians, Assyrians, Hittites, Japan and Indian kingdoms of North and South America.
132. Hey, everybody, can you see any Arab or "Palestinian"..
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.29.07)
...state in the following maps displayed at www.israelinsider.com/maps and www.zionism-israel.com/maps/Canaan_after_conquest.htm ? Please note the scope and size of Israel and its borders. Food for thought.
133. no arabs wanted
arjun ramesh hardas ,   new delhi, india   (11.29.07)
"We must cleanse the country of Arabs and resettle them in the countries where they came from." Very interesting statement. Rememeber the old saying..."those who forget history are forced to repeat it"? Just substitute the word "Arabs" with "Jews" and you will have a repeat of Nazi Germany's initial idea of how to make the Fatherland Judenfrei!
134. To nr 133
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.29.07)
You are Indian and not Israeli, so stay out and mind your own business. Second, there is a huge difference between Israel and Nazi Germany. Israel is a liberal western democracy whereas Nazi Germany was a ferocious, despotic, murderous state imposing tyranny. Third, Jews constituted 1% of Germany's population, German Jews were loyal to Germany, generally did not symphatize, identify or cooperate with Germany's enemies and Jews had no army, posed no demograhic threat, contributed to Germany economically, culturally and scientifically and never tried to impose Jewish culture or a Jewish state in Germany. Arabs constitute 20% of Israel's population, hate Jews, cooperate, sympathize and identify with Israel's enemies, want to Arabize Israel and want to have an Arab state in Israel and the Arabs deny the Holocaust and Arabs are the world's biggest producers and consumers of "Mein Kampf". Get your facts straight before you embarass yourself.
135. Alexander! Fool!
USA!   (11.29.07)
You're telling those not from Israel to get the hell out of this ENGLISH SPOKEN site? If they criticize you. Yoy're want to force 1-2 million people to get e nation for jews only! You are "historical facts" to back up this cleansing. And you don't want people to think of a small, big mouth, lounatic from Austria when reading your posts? The biggest fool this week. Soon your'e going to be forgotten.
136. To nr 135 Yes, I am saying that people...
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.30.07)
...that don't live in Israel and that interfer with Israeli interior affairs with the explicit purpose to sabotage us, should shut up and stay out of the way. Exclaiming USA! is commendable, but I don't understand what USA! has got to do with the Arab-Israeli conflict that has existed for 1400 years. And no, I and people of my kind will not be forgotten, because a huge chunk of Israeli society agrees with me. Another thing, if the USA doesn't want millions of Mexicans and uses an EXTREMELY harsh policy when dealing with people around the world applying for American citizenship, why should Israel be any different? Why is it, that when non Jews claim that ethnic minorities have citizenship rights but they have to integrate in the host nation of the nation state, show solidarity and loyalty and contribute to the host nation and NOT taking over the host nation with demographic warfare, terrorism, hatred, rewriting of history and NOT pressuring the host nation with global political and economic pressure, it's considered by the rest of the world to be "okay", but when JEWS demand the EXACT SAME THING, we are being compared to Hitler and Nazis? Because you and the rest of the world applies double standards. What's okay for non Jews is not okay for Jews. The biggest racist and fascist is you and non Jews interfering with our internal affairs, trying to sabotage our existence ,our safety, security, integrity, independence, sovereignity, demographic survival and consolidation, territorial ownership, borders, waters, air space, history, culture and historical heritage, our patrimony and our national sphere of interests. Israel IS NOT A TOY! Its not a play thing! Its a nation! Its a people, men women and children of the Israelite nation, living here in this land, we have the same rights like everybody else on this planet. How would the USA react if Israel, Russia, the Arab world, China, Japan, Germany, France, UK, Brazil, Argentina, India, Canada and Mexico would FORCE and pressure the US to open up its borders and let in hundreds of millions of non Americans with non American values, setling from New Mexico, Arizona and Texas in the south, to Minnesota, Michigan, Illinois, Oregon and Montana in the north, dividing USA in half? Would you like that? Would you like Israel to redefine the borders of the USA and decide who can live in the USA and who cannot and who can enter the USA and who cannot? And yes, keep your mouth shut and stay out of Israel's way. We Israelis are not interested in what you think. Mind your own business.
137. KOL HA KAVOD,Alexander ,Hertzilia!
Keren ,   Israel-SP   (11.30.07)
Excelent talk backs!
138. Great Timing!
Jonathan ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (11.30.07)
Put the story up an hour before Shabbat, so the religious-haters can have 26 full hours to hold their hate-fest.
139. To Jonathan in Tel Aviv
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (11.30.07)
So, now when people show patriotism and love for Israel and dissatisfaction with the double standards shown so blatantly by the disloyal and anti-Semitic Arab minority that wants to be a majority, people are suddenly "religious" and "haters", as if there is something wrong with religion and demanding justice. I don't hate anybody, I just want the Arabs and the rest of the world to back off and leave Israel alone. If they do that, there will be peace. Why do you live in Israel, if you are not patriotic? If you don't want a Jewish state, why are you living here then? Please refer to ONE sentence where the religious people and where secular nationalists such as myself, are refering to Arabs as "subhumans" or that Jews are "superior" or that we should "enslave", "conquer" and "terrorize" the world or that only Jews can be given individual and national rights but not non Jews?
140. AL the FOOL can't see the difference
USA!   (11.30.07)
AL the FOOL can't see the difference between forcing 1-2 million arabs out of a Israel in order to get 100 % homogenity and having a minority of let say 10-20 % inside the borders, with full citizenship and equal rights, with is normal in allmost every country of the west. You are a fool if you think the rest of the world will accept a cleansing of arab in Israel. You are a fool if you think people will buy your cheap arguments. You are a fool if you think the world won't compare Israel with Germany in the 1933-1945 if that happens. You are a nationalistic, stone hearted, bone brained, hater with no life what so ever. And you can threat the whole world you want, but if there's too many of your kind in Israel...well....that's it....good luck....
141. About time!
SarahRachel ,   Los Angeles   (12.01.07)
This Rabbi is right. The Arabs invaded Israel, and do not belong there. Their entire intent is to bring about an end to the ENTIRE state of Israel, and take the whole area, as seen by their map yesterday on PA television that has no Israel whatsoever. This is also the goal of the Erev Rav Israeli government. Until the Arabs are driven out of the land of Israel (according to the biblical borders), peace will never be found. Peace is impossible without this. The land of Israel is a JEWISH land, and those who wish to see its end do not have even the slightest right to be there. Rather than the Erev Rav turning around and handing back the Temple Mount to the Arabs after finally winning it back after 2000 years (the Arabs thought it was a trap, then realised it wasn't), the Erev Rav leaders of Israel gave it up at the beginning of the re-founding of Israel. This is the heart and soul of Israel and the Jewish people. Until it is restored completely to the Jews, and all Arabs evicted from Israel, and then all Erev Rav "Jews" evicted on top of that, Israel will not have peace. In fact, Israel will no longer exist soon, if Jews with true Jewish souls do not stand up and do these things.
142. I don't believe that democracy and freedom...
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (12.01.07)
...justice, truth. liberty and equality is your goal. Comparing Israel to Nazi Germany despite the evidence and facts I gave you, either makes you an anti-Semite or a person that is not intellectually capable of handling the information I gave you. I stated nowhere that we Jews are "superior" and that Arabs are "inferior" and I stated nowhere that I want dictatorship and Israeli hegemony and world control and world tyranny and slavery. I just stated that I want you and other anti-Semites to leave us alone and let us live in our own land with an overwhelming Jewish majority,(in the same manner as Germans are in majority in Germany and the French are in majority in France) an Israeli western democracy, as it is today, with a fully recognized patriomony by the world community. Speaking about citizenship rights, citizens have both rights and obligations. In USA you need to declare that you are loyal to the USA. If you betray USA you are considered to be a criminal. The same thing goes with Israel. The difference is that Israeli Arabs are not loyal to us Israelis and Israeli Arabs want us dead. Would you Americans agree to have a huge Mexican minority in the US, bent on the destruction of America? Not likely. So why should we Israelis accept a hostile minority? If Israel enacts a law of loyalty, only few Arabs can stay as only a small minority of them are loyal. Have you bothered to read my previous posts? Your accusations are ludicrous and your statements are simply pathetic. I wonder, do you have a life? An American getting involved with what's going on inside Israel thousands of kilometers away? Don't you hear good? I said stay out of our internal affairs and don't mess with us. You are not my enemy, I just want you to keep quiet and mind your own business. You didn't bother to answer my questions regarding Israel-US relations in my former post. Why? Is the truth too painful? Most of the people, nations and countries of this world are ordinary people, conducting their lives on a daily basis - most people don't have time and energy to get involved with conflicts, so take my advice: cool down, relax, get a life and buy a ticket for Hawaii.
143. To nr 140 - read my post nr 134...
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (12.01.07)
...and there you will find the answers to your question. If you still protest when given that information, you have proven yourself to be an anti-Semite. PS: My name is not Al - it's Alexander.
144. To 140 - Have you bothered to read my posts...
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (12.01.07)
...120, 121, 124, 125, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 134 and 136? I especially recommend you to read posts 131 and 134. Especially 134 will answer all your questions. My advice to you: Get your facts straight.
145. To 140 - USA!
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (12.01.07)
If you bother to read my posts 131 and 134, your questions will be answered. Yes, Israel is a JEWISH state, a state ONLY for Jews. It means that Israel is MY country and NOT YOURS! Israel, Japan and and the European states are nation states, meaning states established by, created by, ruled and governed by, defined by and inhabited by a specific ethnic group. USA, Canada and Latin American states are NOT ethnic nation states, as your identities are based entirely on your passport or your values. Israel, Japan and European states are NOT multicultural "experiments". Arabs do have home lands - more than 20 states, despite the fact that there are NON Arab minorites, but the states are still ARAB states and Israel is still an ISRAELI/JEWISH state. And, yes, stay out - we Israelis are not interested in what you think.
146. Yes, I can see the difference...
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (12.01.07)
...between a person that genuinely wants equality and freedom of nations and people like yourself that are biased anti-Semites mixing together self defense with "ethnic cleansing". Being a minority means that you belong to a minority population - nothing else- it's not a moral compass and being a minority is no indication of your intentions. What do you mean that a minority population of 10-20% is "normal" in most nations? How do you know that "ALL" nations have a minority of 10-20%? What is normal? How do you define normal? Why is 10-20% "normal"? Why this arbitrary per cent? Germans killed Jews in Europe and Arabs want to kill Jews in Israel and the Middle East. You have proven yourself to be an anti-Semite of the highest order, comparing Nazi Germany's genocide on PEACEFUL , INNOCENT and UNARMED JEWS and Israel's SELF DEFENSE against an outspoken and explicitly hostile Arab minority that loves Hitler and denies the Holocaust. You are also a racist of the highest order, not mentioning the REAL ethnic cleansing that took place in USA when European Americans killed millions of Indians and enslaved millions of Africans, and you also seem to ignore the war of the Balkans in the 1990s where REAL ethnic cleansing took place. And what about the HUGE exchange of millions of people that took place between Germany, Poland and Russia after WW2, between Finland and Russia after WW2, between Turkey and Greece and between India and Pakistan decades ago? You make no difference between REAL oppression and perceived oppression and you make no difference between a threatened host nation figthing for its existence against a hostile and aggressive minority, and a host nation that deliberately embarks upon a policy of cleansing a small, innocent and loyal minority and a policy of expansionism. And what the world thinks doesn't interest me a bit, in the same way as you Americans don't care what non Americans feel. You hate us Jews because we are Jews, not because of what we do. When Jews deman equal rights among the nations, we are suddenly "racists". When Arabs want to kill Jews and take over Israel, Arabs are "victims". Jews can be kicked out from Arab countries, that's okay, but Arabs can't be kicked out from Israel, that's racist. You have proven yourself to be anti-Semitic. Raising your voice and putting exclamation marks everywhere doesn't make your arguments right. And yes, we Israelis will do exactly what we want to do in our land, without limitations and without expectations, no matter if the world likes it or not. We are an independent and sovereign state, we are no pets and toys, we are free men, women and children of the israelite nation, we have the same rights and freedom like everybody else and we don't accept the slightest intrusion into our internal affairs.
147. AL the FOOL doesn't have a clue...
USA!   (12.01.07)
Do you work, AL? I mean all these looooong tbs? All begging the world to look in another direction. And finally you got in the trap: "I angry, you anti-semitic!" Go read a thousand more crazy rabbis, all happy to give you another million "arguments" to keep the status quo. But fact is: IF Judeea and Samaria belongs to Israel, annex this parts and give ALL people who have been born there and lived there all their lives citizenship. IF not - get the hell out! And the Israeli arabs? Well, if Israel want to be called a democratic nation amongst other democratic nations, it's impossible to drive millions of citizens out, just because they are a minority, or just because they want to change the society in a democratic order. If you cant see the difference between a fully democratic nation and a nation with rights for a certain "race", you are NOT a democratic minded person. You are something else, a reminder of gone times, a man wearing a brown shirt...
148. Listen buddy you have still not commented...
Alexander ,   Herzliya, Israel   (12.01.07)
... my arguments which means that you are running short of arguments. Second, its shabat in Israel, people don't work during shabat. Third, speaking about having a life, why are you in here? I am not speaking about "race". You are - not me. And my argument is not "that I am angry and you are wrong". I have to tell you that it is a bit disappointing debating with you because you are extremely rude, and you interfer with our business. It's not democratic to drive the Arabs out? Is it democratic to destroy Israel? Was it democratic to expel 850.000 Jews from the Arab countries? Was the USA democratic when it put Japanese people in camps during WW2 when most American Japanese were innocent? Was the USA democratic when it used apartheid against the blacks of America until the 1950s and 1960s? Was the USA democratic when it slaughtered millions of Indians and Africans? Was the Balkan democratic when people slaughtered each other? Was the transfer of millions of people across the borders between Finland-Russia, Turkey-Greece and India-Pakistan democratic? Israel like most nations will NEVER become 100% homogenous - that's not the point moron, the point is that Israel is JEWISH state with JEWISH majority. Israel is NOT USA, USA is not a nation state, but Israel, Japan and and European states are nation states.. You have no beef with them. France is a nation state, but it has a non French minority - Arabs/Muslims, WITH FULL CITIZENSHIP RIGHTS, JUST LIKE ISRAELI ARABS. But the French say, that even though France has minorities, the culture, identity, nationality, ethnicity, traditions and mentality and majority is FRENCH. The same goes with Israel and its Israeliness/Jewishness. "Get the fuck out from Judea and Samaria"? Excuse me - who do think you are? Get the fuck out from the USA and hand over America to the Indians. The Arabs of Judea, Samaria and Gaza don't want Israeli citizenship, and if they wanted to and would get it, Israel would cease to exist, because the Arabs would outnumber the Jews, (and the Arabs have after all 20 Arab states in 99,8% of the Middle East that corresponds to 1,5 times the size of USA )which is you explicit intention. Yes, you are an anti-Semite because anti-Semitism, in case your intellect can handle this information, is about hatred for Jews based on discrimination, demonization, double standards, delegitimization and false accusations. Israel is one of the most liberal western democracies in the world, even more liberal than USA - Israel has not enacted a law of loyalty, and Arab MKs, Member of Knessets, can openly in the Israeli Parliament sympathize with Israel's enemies. Last year, Arab MKs did that when Lebanon and Hizbollah attacked Israel. Would USA accept having Senators and Congressmen sympathizing with Al Qaida, bin Ladin, Islamists and Saddam Hussein supporters? No. 70% of the Arabs of Judea and Samaria would leave if given financial compensation. If they would leave with a financial compensation, they would be better off than 850.000 Jews ethnically cleansed and expelled from the Arab world despite being a tiny, peaceful, loyal and unarmed minority. Arabs of Israel are DISLOYAL, hostile, sympathizes with Israel's enemies - which would make them traitors and criminals according to the American system. Are you listening to what I am saying? The Arabs can't live in Israel because they "happen to live there", because living in the land doesn't make you an innocent lamb or Mother Teresa, living in the land doesn't mean you own the land and living in the land doesn't mean you have the right to live there. And the Arabs don't accept Israel's right to exist as a JEWISH state, and you are anti-Semitic because you feel that all nationalities and all identities of this world are "okay" except the Jewish identity and nationality of Israel. You are anti-Semitic, despite you denying. And I am not "begging" anybody to in the world to "agree with me".
149. Land for peace is the answer
David ,   USA   (12.02.07)
If the Arabs truly wanted peace they would concede this tiny parcel to the Jews and absorb their fellow Arabs into their vast lands and many states. They don't want peace, they want to destroy Israel. If Israel was not threatened and the Arabs did not attack then they could live in Israel where they enjoy a freedom absent in all other Arab countries. But after 60+ years of Arabs attacking Israel this resident 5th column of Arabs has proven to be a security risk. Humanitarian transfer of the bulk of Muslim Arabs to their countries of origin is the way to a lasting peace.
150. AL the confused hater
USA!   (12.02.07)
this is the core essence of your intellect/arguments/brain: "you are anti-Semitic because you feel that all nationalities and all identities of this world are "okay" except the Jewish identity and nationality of Israel. You are anti-Semitic, despite you denying." IF I don't accept the idea of driving millions of israeli arab citizens out of Israel, I deny the jews its right of their own state? IF I want the arabs actually born and living in Judea and Samaria to have civil rights and citizenship since Israel remains in this area, I deny the jews its right of their own state? Talking about jumping to conclusions...NO I want a jewish state of Israel. No I don't deny jews their rights of a homeland. Here's another one of of your stupid arguments: "The Arabs of Judea, Samaria and Gaza don't want Israeli citizenship, and if they wanted to and would get it, Israel would cease to exist, because the Arabs would outnumber the Jews, (and the Arabs have after all 20 Arab states in 99,8% of the Middle East that corresponds to 1,5 times the size of USA )which is you explicit intention." Which is my what?? I never said that??? And, what is your solution for the arabs in Judea and Samaria? To live under Israeli rule without equal rights for ever? You have written about cleansing, but when I call you a anti-democrat for doing that, you deny it. So, what IS your solution? Other than shouting ANTI-SEMITE to everyone that cares for the rights of the arabs living in Israel and Judea and Samaria?
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